@fisherdoc posted:Also ensure rolling stock wheels are oiled and not binding. 7 cars should not be an issue.
Thanks, I will do that too.
Has anyone tried Bullfrog snot for traction tire replacement?
Dale
@Pennsylover posted:Has anyone tried Bullfrog snot for traction tire replacement?
Dale
I have. It doesn’t work in the grooves so not a replacement for tires. Its does help a lot on smooth tires like early post war non magnetraction nickel tires.
Pete
@Pennsylover posted:Has anyone tried Bullfrog snot for traction tire replacement?
Dale
Endless forum discussion on this in the past. Use archives to see it all, if you're interested. Some people like it. Some people don't.
Traction tires are a consumable item that does wear out. It ain't always that easy to find an appropriate replacement (think Weaver and Williams brass). Locos that were designed to work with traction tires generally work better with them than without them. As a result, we make the effort to find an available something that fits if we want the best performance from our iron horses.
would also be nice to have a replacement that doesn't denigrate with age
@fisherdoc posted:...in this case the Silver Burlington "Texas Zephyr" -.... Every time I tried to start out POP off came a tire!
These are what you want for that series of diesels - they will not pop off.
@Mike Zoppa posted:I have a 3 month old traction tire and my steamer is suddenly slipping. I have it pulling 7 freight type cars, but what really matters is the force and weight, of which I don't have a good way to measure the force and weight. Physics and trains go hand in hand. These train companies should sell a force measuring device so we can tell if our trusty train is having issue later on in its life. Anyway, I used mineral spirits to clean my track and I guess that's what most people use, so I'm not sure what the issue is. My train actually pulled more cars/weight before it started slipping. Anyone have an idea of how to know if your traction tire has gone bad. - I guess it's possible that my new traction tire may have been on the shelf for a long time too (developing tire rot). Maybe someone has a closeup image inspecting a tire and what a person can look for as a sign the tire has gone bad. - I know I should just replace it and see, but instead of using a new tire, maybe the tire isn't the problem based on some closeup visual indicators. - Just wondering...
Well, I found most of my problem and it was a combination of dirty track and dirty wheels on all cars and the train. My track is short and the thing I now realize is that the shorter the track the faster it may get dirty. I won't rule out that my tire may be part of the problem either, because even though it is supposedly new'ish, you don't know what year it was made. Unfortunately we are still tied to using a rubber tire that can just deteriorate with age (even without using it). Even if you buy new tires, you really don't know what year they were made, so if there is a work-around to get a tire that won't age or wear, then it may make our lives easier. Seeing how cheap they are it just isn't a high priority, but if that worn tire rubber is making you clean your track a lot more - then maybe we should make it a higher priority to try and reduce this issue somehow. - .. - Thanks for all you input.
@Dave Koehler posted:would also be nice to have a replacement that doesn't denigrate with age
Gee, I'd like them for my 1:1 cars in the garage as well! 
I tried as long as I could to hold off responding to this post, but could not hold off any longer.
Those here that know me were probably expecting this answer. The solution for traction tires is good ol' Magne-traction!
Amen!
@Lionelski posted:The solution for traction tires is good ol' Magne-traction!
I guess you have convinced Lionel to offer Magnetraction on all their new stuff? Otherwise, this is a moot point, it's not something you add after the fact.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I guess you have convinced Lionel to offer Magnetraction on all their new stuff? Otherwise, this is a moot point, it's not something you add after the fact.
Hi John,
This does not mean that Magne-traction is not a solution for traction tires (it can be in many situations), just that this inferior traction method (IMHO) is accepted by the buying public.
Yes, too bad that it cannot be retrofitted. Is this because it is impractical (probably) or because if an aftermarket manufacturer offered a kit Lionel would go after them (also probably)?
I've asked Lionel about resurrecting Magne-traction both in person (at York) and via emails. No answers for why not in person, and no response to emails. If enough people lobby them, perhaps they will consider bringing it back. Forum'ites; an email campaign?
If they monitor the thread here about next catalogs wish lists, they would have seen this brought up there too.
Perhaps they can release the ability to use it to their competition? If they ain't gonna use it, why not?
I know that with some open wheel designs Magne-traction will not work. I wonder if it would interfere with modern electronics? Maybe just bring it back to the more conventional train offerings then?
To be honest, I think the issue, in most cases, is that traction tries are cheaper, and people are just quietly accepting their limitations.
Just IMHO
@fisherdoc posted:Amen!
fisherdoc, you know that if I could give this response 100 likes, I would!
I'd like to buy traditional sized new lionel too, but without Mange-traction, I wont
@Lionelski posted:Perhaps they can release the ability to use it to their competition?
Early Williams had this feature, then soon abandoned it for heavy weights, and then traction tires.
@ADCX Rob posted:Early Williams had this feature, then soon abandoned it for heavy weights, and then traction tires.
Interesting. I thought Lionel had a lock on this feature. Perhaps Williams dropped it after receiving a communication from Lionel? I guess we will never know.
Just curious: has anyone attempted to get the best of both worlds (traction tires and magne-traction) by crafting traction tires out of the rubbery material used for refrigerator magnets?
I know that material is a lot less stretchy and a bit thicker than that used in most rubber bands and thus might be somewhat less forgiving to install on a range of wheels, but ISTM that with such a design you could get both a 'grippier' surface like a traction tire, and some degree of magnetic adhesion at the same time. Probably not a DIY project, since few if any of us have a way to form rings out of the material (staples, maybe?) but should be a snap for any half-decent fabrication business. I'd love to see at least a proof-of-concept attempt . . . anyone? 
@Lionelski posted:I tried as long as I could to hold off responding to this post, but could not hold off any longer.
Those here that know me were probably expecting this answer. The solution for traction tires is good ol' Magne-traction!
I agree 100%. Don't care if it's a moot point or not. 
@Steve Tyler posted:Just curious: has anyone attempted to get the best of both worlds (traction tires and magne-traction) by crafting traction tires out of the rubbery material used for refrigerator magnets?
I know that material is a lot less stretchy and a bit thicker than that used in most rubber bands and thus might be somewhat less forgiving to install on a range of wheels, but ISTM that with such a design you could get both a 'grippier' surface like a traction tire, and some degree of magnetic adhesion at the same time. Probably not a DIY project, since few if any of us have a way to form rings out of the material (staples, maybe?) but should be a snap for any half-decent fabrication business. I'd love to see at least a proof-of-concept attempt . . . anyone?
Interesting idea, Steve
The real solution is for manufacturers to stop using traction tires altogether. You want realism, there you have it. The emphasis instead should be on free-rolling wheels on other rolling stock.
No other scales have MagneTraction and MagneTraction doesn’t work on all O gauge track, so wake up, folks. Either accept traction tires or do away with them.
The thing about traction is that the added traction allows you the realism of pulling many cars. Without it, hardly any cars may be pulled with the cheaper lighter trains. I think if you measured the force a real train can pull, with its weight and the cars weight vs a model train ( calculating the size difference ) - there will probably be a big difference, where your model train would need to weigh more and the engine be much stronger (of which isn't possible with cheaper trains). - I could be wrong, but it's my best guess why we need traction tires.
@Jim R. posted:......"No other scales have MagneTraction" So? This is the OGauge RR forum remember?
......."and MagneTraction doesn’t work on all O gauge track" Again , so? Does this mean that those of us who do have track that works with Magne-traction should not be able to use its benefits?,
"so wake up, folks" I'm awake
"Either accept traction tires or do away with them" I couldn't care less if they were done away with, and based on the comments from many people here, and over many different threads on this subject, about them loosening, rotting, being difficult to replace, etc., I'm guessing that at least some feel this way too. There must be a better way.
$500 - $2,000 engines relying on 10 cent pieces of rubber for traction? I don't get it.
@Lionelski posted:$500 - $2,000 engines relying on 10 cent pieces of rubber for traction? I don't get it.
Well, your $2,000 engine relies on a lot of parts that are as cheap as traction tires, are you going to work out replacements for all of them?
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Gee, I'd like them for my 1:1 cars in the garage as well!
I see your point, rubber rots.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Well, your $2,000 engine relies on a lot of parts that are as cheap as traction tires, are you going to work out replacements for all of them?
No, John, I just thought that a better solution for traction would be in order.
I think that all of the other parts, cheap or not, work well. not so much for the traction tires after a short while.
By the way, I noted your suggestion from 3 years ago: "FWIW, I use MTH traction tires on most Lionel diesels. They fit and are thinner to replace the overly fat Lionel tires." This might be the long term solution many are looking for - are the MTH tires still available in various sizes?
@Steve Tyler posted:Just curious: has anyone attempted to get the best of both worlds (traction tires and magne-traction)
I just worked on my 212 Lionel Alco. It had dual wheel magnetraction, but used the first gen alco engine with the plastic bottom bushing for the armature. It was bad. So I took some time to take apart some spares I had, merge some parts and make a good engine. I ended up with a newer style Alco engine with the metal bottom bushing in the plate, 2 magnetraction axles and 2 traction tires. Traction tires on the same side. Something Lionel didn't make. How does it work? Compared to most all other 200 series alcos, it is a pulling beast. It pulls well for any 4 wheel drive engine. Traction tires for these are still readily available.
I like Magnetraction best, but I can live with traction tires. That is because I have a new PRUSE MK4 3d Printer and all I need is the right filament and nozzle to make my own traction tires if needed.
@VHubbard posted:...I ended up with a newer style Alco engine with the metal bottom bushing in the plate, 2 magnetraction axles and 2 traction tires. Traction tires on the same side. Something Lionel didn't make...
Lionel did make diesels with Magnetraction & Tire traction. The recent 2021 Alco is one example.
Few will argue that traction tires are the perfect solution. I don't think Magnetraction is either. Like them or not, I really doubt that the manufacturer's are going to move away from traction tires in my lifetime, so I've decided to learn to live with them. I reserve my tilting at windmills for politics.
@Lionelski posted:By the way, I noted your suggestion from 3 years ago: "FWIW, I use MTH traction tires on most Lionel diesels. They fit and are thinner to replace the overly fat Lionel tires." This might be the long term solution many are looking for - are the MTH tires still available in various sizes?
Yep, MTH still has all the common sizes available. If you search for Traction Tire on MTH Parts, you'll find most of the common sizes in stock.
I've gotten multiple new Lionel engines that have the tires rubbing on the brake shoes, needless to say, that didn't enhance performance! I replaced them with the MTH tires, problem solved.
I have to second what John has stated. Whenever I need to replace a Lionel traction tire, which seems to be happening more frequently lately, I use the MTH equivalent and they fit better and tighter. Never any problems with them.
This is a little out there but I bought 3/4” heat shrink tubing. I carefully cut it and made tires for 8 diesel engines. This is not thick but is very strong.
There is a glue inside it but I never activated it with a hair dryer.
I only have about 4 months of running experience with it but to date have had zero problems.
$8 on Amazon if you want to give it a try.
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@ChiTown Steve posted:This is a little out there but I bought 3/4” heat shrink tubing. I carefully cut it and made tires for 8 diesel engines. This is not thick but is very strong.
There is a glue inside it but I never activated it with a hair dryer.
I would think shrinking it around the wheel would have activated any glue...
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I would think shrinking it around the wheel would have activated any glue...
For sure it would. It fits tight as it is so I left it alone.
@ADCX Rob posted:These are what you want for that series of diesels - they will not pop off.
Maybe those work better on O Gauge engine wheels than the ones they make for N Gauge. When I tried them on N Gauge the little clear plastic donuts were so non-flexible the engines derailed constantly. But maybe with the heavier O Gauge engines it's not a problem.
John
I’d rather just have solid metal wheels, no rubber tires or Magnetraction. Adding weight will increase adhesion and is pretty easy to do with lead sheeting.
With all this talk of traction tires. I have too many spares. every time I buy an engine I get spares. so my collection just keeps building up.
I went through them one day to seperate the mth and lionel ones. plus I seperated them by size and type of engine.
I store them in a storage box with plastic drawers. is there some storage method to make them last longer? or am I fine storing them like this. my train room is climate controlled.
I think all the suggestions here are great. I find that the majority of the time I am changing tires due to they seem to get gooey or gummy somehow. not that they have worn out per say.
I have enough spares that changing then ony takes a minute once you get the hang of it. so I will just stick to the OEM tires. mth tires are my preferred choice if possible.
@Lionelzwl2012 posted:I store them in a storage box with plastic drawers. is there some storage method to make them last longer? or am I fine storing them like this. my train room is climate controlled.
Put them in air-tight bags and away from temperature extremes, that's about as good as it gets.
thanks john will do.
