Starting cost of a 1st class layout?

No sir. These are BIG numbers.

 

I mentioned that I purchased a rather basic Williams engine on sale at 260. You can get the same one in the Local Hobby shop at about 640 something. That is just the engine.

 

The 6 cars cost a total of around 425 or so pushing the cost closer to 1000. Just for the passenger train. Track is 6 dollars a peice, switches 100, bridges about that much, DCS system from MTH is another several hundred. Then there is the throttle which is another 320.

 

And on and on and on.

 

Lionel retail cars for freight can run as much as 110 each.

 

10 cars a cool 1000 dollars.

 

10 trains... 10,000 dollars sitting on your shelf and yards.

 

Some of the pictures published here or in magazine easy shows over 20K or more, much more.

 

I am aware of several individuals who have amassed million dollar plus collections in any scale. Such as HO. When they pass on, Probate is going to BITE the survivors or Heirs in taxes to President Obama... something like half I think.

 

No. I am on a fixed income and several thousand is about all I will spend to get the big stuff together. The rest will be scenery such as trees and such and always below retail.

 

Also I rely on Ebay to keep costs down, I pretty much quit pre-ordering sight unseen from China. You have engines and/or train sets in the Lionel Catalog and others for close to 2000 dollars by themselves. Too much.

 

It will worsen as the US Dollar continues to spiral downwards to what is used to be called Not Worth a Continental for those who are familiar with our Nation's history.

 

I'll enjoy the hobby very much thank you, but it's going to be strictly just enough to enjoy running trains for a day or operations. Nothing in boxes like it was for years.

 

If I cannot buy it, take it out of the box at home and USE it THAT DAY... then I wont buy it.

 

I build computers for a past time. I have been working on one machine until it reached it's design limits and I calculate I have spun about 8000 dollars in several years just feeding this money pit of a computer parts. Now they are considered disposable.

 

I will still build them rather than buy em. At least I know exactly what is in them in this day and age of wonder phones that are complete computers that fit in your shirt pocket.

Something that really amazes me.  Folks with heavy collections of engines and cars going very deep into five figures but they register reluctanct to invest a couple of engine's worth of cash for a decent layout. 

 

 

You can easily spend what Lee suggests, but you can also spend a lot less. Not sure where his prices come from, but a MTH RealTrax turnout retails for $80 and a ScaleTrax turnout for $50. While you can certainly buy $1,000+ engines, you can also buy very nice, though less detailed, engines for less than $500. It all depends on how involved in the hobby you want to get. I'm going to buy 4 RailKing engines and that's it. I don't have any affinity for any particular road, etc., I'd just like 2 steam and 2 diesels that will navigate 42" radii. I haven't decided on track yet, but I'm leaning toward something that goes nicely with Ross turnouts because of their extensive offerings. To me, that is the biggest negative to RealTrax, their limited offerings, especially in turnouts.

Johnny:

I also will sing the praises of Imperial Railking MTH engines.

They have very nice detail, can run conventional or Command (DCS) and cost far less than comparable Lionel engines.

Lionel low cost engines have no Command control in them. And much less detail, It seems they have 2 levels. Cheap Starter engines and Expensive Hi end engines.

MTH has several levels at several price points.

 

Now, for Track, I really recommend MTH Scaletrax for both price and looks.

It has the smallest, most correct shaped rails in the industry. It has smaller ties that are spaced reasonably. The rivet counters say they are too far apart but they look fine to me. I'm not measuring them with a micrometer.

The Turnouts are O-31, O-54, and O-72 left and right, but it also has #4 and $6 left and right. Very few makers offer numbered turnouts. But Real Railroads use Numbered Turnouts not curved ones!

 

Dave:

To address your limited turnout point on the ScaleTrax, Try Ross Custom Turnouts with no roadbed under them, they are amazingly easy to mate with Scaletrax on roadbed. I have 2 Ross O-72 Wyes for that reason.

I forget the name of the shop, but I'm going to be able to stop in on my way through the Atlanta area next month, so maybe I'll get to look at some ScaleTrax and Ross turnouts. I guess I'm going to have to spring for software that has both libraries.  I guess that means the $80 RR-Track bundle, sigh...... 

Dave:

Yes, I got lucky last year, a forum member was selling an unused full package of RRTrack. I had the MTH version at first (RealTrax and some accessories only) and really got to liking it.

I was going to offer showing it to you at the regional Gathering next month in Springfield, Mass but I see you are on the far end of the country.

Hopefully someone in your area can demo it for you.

 

Have you looked at the video clips on toytrainsontracks.com ? They are excerpts from his videos. He sells 3 Videos about building a layout, laying track, and setting up switches and signals, then more on Scenery detailing.  I have the first 2 videos and highly recommend them.  He uses Scaletrax as well.

Spent more than some, less than some, a good effort the last two years to get all out of the box and complete a layout.

 

I have the MTH version of RR-Track too and my LHS uses it. I'll have to take a drive over there to see what libraries they have. He doesn't stock ScaleTrax, but I think he might have one of the bundles anyway.  After we get back from Florida in February, I'll check out the local clubs. In fact, I'll be checking one out on January 12, so maybe I'll find someone there who can answer some questions. I'm new at this, so it will take some time to find a club that my schedule lets me check out. Thanks for the offer though.

This is exactly what I do. For me the building and modifying is the most fun part. I have 4 N-scale layouts and have one stored up in the rafter because I have no more room to put it.

 

Oh tell me about it. I have so much N-scale stuff to get rid of.

 

I like this idea and I think I’m going to do the same

 

I guess I should take a better look at MTH because it has come up a lot in this thread.

Wow Mike, I just took a look at your layout and I'm just speechless

I started out with a MTH Railking Pennsy RS-3 freight set. It cost me somewhere in the neighborhood of $300. I honestly don't remember. I have since increased my investment by well over 20 times. And that is peanuts compared to most of these guys. (hmmm...wonder if the math works out the way I think it does?) Anyhow, it grows on you and can be expensive but only in manageable  chunks at a time. I have been satisfied each step along the way. I like diesel but could have just as easily chosen a steam set, probably MTH or Lionel, to get started.

 

Have fun...welcome.

I've heard California has some strange law that if you retire and move to another state then CA hits you with some kind of penalty, is this true?  I knew a couple of civil service types that worked in CA, then moved to jobs in VA, where they retired in a few years, anyway that's what they told me.

 

Virginia isn't a bad place to live, North Carolina has no state income tax, and both places have plenty of housing.  There's a number of homes in the Norfolk area that have basements or 3-4 story houses where a layout would fit nicely.

 

Have you though of going into G scale, it could be put outside or inside.  Bachmann has some nice G-scale trains and RTR sets.  Their new 4-6-0 "Anniversary" engines have metal wheels, gears, siderods, etc to make them last a long time.

 

If you just want to run trains until you reitre, I'd but a G-scale RTR set now and when you move, decide whether or not to stay with G or go O.  Or even an O-scale RTR set.

 

MTH has their DCS command control system that runs their PS2 and PS3 enignes, as well as their conventional engines.  They also can run Lionel's TMCC engines, Legacy engines, and conventional engines, but you will lose some of the sounds and features.

 

Atlas, Weaver, and 3rd Rail use the Lionel TMCC (Railsounds 4 I believe) (Somebody please correct this if I'm wrong), which will run on the MTH DCS and Lionels TMCC and Legacy.

 

Your initial post said you want a "quality" layout.  Are you interested in scale equipment?  If so, 3rd Rail, Atlas, Lionel, MTH, and Weaver all make fine scale pieces, some are more detailed than others.  If you want to model a particular railroad, see what they all offer and if it's still available.  I model the old Seaboard Air Line and it's difficult getting models that match prototypical pieces.  If you want to scratchbuild, decals are probably the number one problem area.  There are places that will make them for you, but initial costs can be $30 and up for a sheet, IF you find someone who'll do them at all.

 

Atlas track looks great and is solid track, but expensive.  Ross Customs Switches and Gargraves both make great track and RCS makes perhaps the best, most reliable switches in the market.

 

Do you want to go 2-rail or 3-rail?  3rd Rail, Atlas, Weaver, and MTH make both, not sure if Lionel is making any 2-rail at present.

 

Don't jump in without doing a lot of research first and getting a good idea of what you want to do.

 

And good luck in your retirement when it comes

Space is critical for O-gauge modelers.

 

I suppose that is one of the beauties of N-gauge: If you have enough space for most any layout, you have enough space to accommodate the broadest curves necessary to allow most any N-scale locomotive to operate and look good doing so.

 

This is most definitely not the case with O-gauge. With 4 feet of width you will be limited to locomotives that can negotiate O36 track (O42 would be pushing it). Not to mention the appearance of a large loco that would negotiate the curve, but not look close to prototypical doing so.

 

You need to peruse the catalogs for the minimum diameter track required for the locos you desire. I crave those requiring O72, but am space limited to O36. The unintentional consequence of limited space is many dollars saved on locomotives, but you could still drop some serious dollars on a A-B-A set of top of the line F units.

 

Best of wishes on your quest.

1117.55 for a good one.

11,117.55 for a very good one.

101,117.55 for really dang good hot one.

Thanks Bob,

That was the case years ago and I don't remember when it changed, but I heard that Nevada sued Calif over it and won.

 

Its funny that you mentioned Virginia because my wife was just talking about that and was looking online to see what was available there. I went to visit my son in North Carolina when he was in the Marines and I didn't care for the humidity. I don't know what its like in Virgina as as far as humidity.

 

I would love to have garden train and i could do so much with that, but that's way out of my price range.

 

I guess maybe I misspoke when I said "quality" because what I really mean is something that I can be proud of and want to show it off. I initially wanted Atlas 2-rail, but was set back by the cost and the fact that I could not run the trains I already have.

 

I really need to take another look at Gargraves again. I bought about 5 sticks of flex to make a curved truss bridge about 5 or 6 years ago and I destroyed every piece trying to bend it, but someone gave me some advice on how to bend it since then and I haven't tried it yet.

Well I have to say that I really got carried away with N-scale and I spent a lot of money on it and maybe too much. Even though I had close to 70 digital controlled switches and I don't even now how much track, I completely filled an 11x12 room. I'd show some photos but I don't feel right about showing N-scale photos in an O forum.

Our tax guy here in Maui said they still send bills to many people like us that move out of California but just through it away. So we did. Also, and this is big. We were paying $13,000 a year in property tax. If your retired here they knock $300,000 off your home value for taxes just for starters and will never raise your taxes as long as you live in the house. Our tax bill here is less than $1,700. We saved over $11,000. Also, they don't tax your retirement income. Don

Well, If you can stand the cold, New Hampshire has No taxes except Property tax, Prepared Meals and lodging tax (and the usual gasoline taxes but we are lower than all other new england states and several others).

This means the Property tax is on the high side, but totaled out we fare in the top 5 states for lowest taxes total.

And we typically have both basements and attic spaces.

 

Now, you mentioned bending Gargraves track, PLEASE get hold of a piece of Scaletrax flex and try it. I can bend it freely with no tools !  And I have straightened one back out, Try that with any other track. Also Check out the videos at http://www.toytrainsontracks.com to see what it looks like after being ballasted, it's incredible.

Don, just another GREAT reason to live in paradise.

To Mike CT,

Real nice work on layout, is that router cut wood red oak? 

 

Don, I wasn’t aware of that. I have a lot of friends that retired out of CA and I know they are not paying CA tax, but they haven’t mentioned getting a bill. I am not paying tax to two different states and especially for CA to squander away. Why that’s the reason I’m getting out of here in the first place.

 

The humidity in VA isn't the best either I'm afraid, but the whole east coast is like that unless you go way up "nawth".  I was up in Bath Maine during August one year and it was hot, but not humid, plus it got a bit cool at night.  If you're looking for weather like what's in San Diego I honestly don't know where you could go.  I've been to SD a couple dozen times and never saw it rain but once, most of the time it was sunny and around 75-80 degrees.  If you come east, bring some of that with you

 

I really need to take another look at Gargraves again. I bought about 5 sticks of flex to make a curved truss bridge about 5 or 6 years ago and I destroyed every piece trying to bend it

 

I have used a lot of Gargraves flex track, but on my current layout I used as many sectional curved pieces as possible, cutting them if need be.  The flex track is actually great for quickly laying down long, straight runs of track and Gargraves and Ross track mate perfectly.

 

As far as taxes go, it's my opinion that no matter where you live, you're going to pay something.  If you want to drive down a paved road, have your garbage picked up, have running water to your house, and sewage running away from your house, then it has to be paid for.

 

I used to have a HO layout in a 12x16 shed.  It was overwhelming to keep clean and make it run as well as I had hoped.  Since I moved to O-scale I can honestly say 99% of my derailments have been to "pilot error" where I forgot to set a switch or didn't put something on the track correctly.  I can clean the track without fear of tearing something up and it's also just easier to clean.

 

Wiring 3-rail track is a no-brainer.  I have 2 wires coming out of my DCS TIU going to the track and have 0 problems.  Same thing before I got DCS, when I was running only conventional.

 

If you like sound, then a command control system is the way to go, but you'll also get the ability to run your engines at super slow speeds, great for switching. Williams By Bachmann (WBB) is suppose to be coming out with a 16-bit sound system for their conventional engines PLUS Electric Railroad makes kits that will add great control and sound (Lionel Railsounds) to conventional engines, so maybe what I just said about a command control system being a must have isn't all that special anymore.

 

On the 3RS sub-forum you'll find "forumites" who have converted their equipment to use Kadee couplers, they've also managed to "fix" the pilots on their engines so they don't swing when going around curves, plus a few other fixes to make their equipment look more like the real thing.  If that's not your cup-o-tea you can leave them as is and enjoy them right out of the box.

 

The "right way" to do things in O-scale is to just have fun, the rest will follow

Oh yeah, as for the weather here in VA goes, the normal quote is "Just wait a couple of hours and it'll change".  I've seen it go from 85 degrees and humid down into the 30s within a few hours.  Other than last year (we had an earthquake in September, the day I bought my DCS system if that tells you anything) about the only bad weather we have are the hurricanes.  They say we're due for one but I believe you can turn those numbers around and say "We haven't had a bad one in X number of years, so the odds of us have one are minimal".  IMO saying we're due for one is like saying that "because the sun rises every day in the east and settles every day in the west we're "due" to have a day when the opposite is true".

Bob Delbridge

I am sure you know----N.C. does in fact have a State Income Tax,+ Sales Tax + a County Property Tax. 

In addition,what one has to watch out for nowadays are new FEES.  Municipalities and Banks have become "Fee Farmers", planting , growing, and harvesting fees.

 

That's a hilariously good price!  Especially including delivery CO to PA.  But how much you got in trains?  Electronics?  Structures?  Detail parts?  Cars, trucks and figures?  Got any pictures to share?

 

Pete

And don't overlook other negatives, like ants, mosquitoes and noseeums. Unless you are a shut-in, coming from San Diego, the humidity and insects are going to be a force to contend with. Being from Wisconsin, I thought I could deal with the humidity and a few bugs, but Phoenix has spoiled me. Visiting our daughter in Fayetteville was a real chore because our grandsons play a lot of baseball, so we spent a lot of time outdoors. It's better now since they moved near Savannah, mostly because there is no ant problem at the ball fields and we've learned to carry incense sticks for the mosquitoes, though noseeums are still terrible. We have to go north to visit friends in Maryland to escape the humidity and bugs, but then winter weather starts to become the problem.

I’m not sure if I mentioned it already and I’m too lazy to go back and read through again, but I live in the desert and I absolutely love it and if it weren’t for the way thing are going here I would buy a place with a little land. I didn’t always love it, it just sort of grew on me after 25 years here. It gets cold in the winter and hot in the summer, but its dry and as I get older the heat is nice. I went to South Eastern PA where I was born and raised to visit my family for two weeks and it took me a week to dry out when I got home.

 

My family wants me to move to PA and although I have great memories there as a kid and a huge family. I’m just not sure. They have great basements there and I came close to buying there a couple of times, but backed out because I was worried about mold in the basement. My sister had some leakage through the block wall behind the paneling that went undiscovered for a couple of years and it was very costly to fix.

I saw a couple of places in south Idaho on the internet that had the same climate as I do and there were houses with large basements as well as land to build a shop.

 

Anyways I’m about to buy some Gargraves 101 Track and a piece of ScaleTrax 30" Flex Track just to check it out. I still want to build that curved wood trestle bridge and my Christmas Layout is going to need it if I put another train on it

Thanks for reminding me Dewey!

 

I guess everywhere has something not so great about it.  Even San Diego, the 1st time I went there 3 of us went to Balboa Park and saw 2 vagrants fighting over a piece of pie someone had tossed into a garbage can.  I heard SD periodically rounds them up out of the park and drops them off across the county line.  Our vagrants sleep under bridges and in culverts.

 

They're even getting ready to put a toll on 3 existing (maybe more) tunnels in the area to pay for another tube that folks have been begging for for years.  I keep telling my wife she needs to find us some new doctors that are on this side of the Elizabeth River so we'll never have a need to use the tunnels again.  I think we currently have 9 tubes in the area.

 

Heat and dryness in the desert can be a bummer, but one doctor told me that folks who live in the south suffer from a lot of cases of dehydration because they stay in the air-conditioned indoors all summer and it saps the water out of you.  Our winters can be dry feeling or damp, depending on the front-of-the-day.

For me that's an advantage because its dry enough to use a evaporative cooler or "Swamp Cooler" as we call it. It not only saves us on the electric bill, but prevents dehydration and the house plants love it too.

I like it it because you have to keep the windows open for it to work and I get a constant supply of fresh air to blow out any foul smells and it cleans the air from dust. LOL

I even have a portable one on my patio for when I'm working on a project out there, but I don't use it much because I don't feel the heat as much anymore unless I'm right out in the sun.

If you're considering different places for retirement this discussion might be of interest ... 

 

https://ogrforum.com/d...ent/8187868162318399

Wow Thanks Ace, I wish I would have seen that before. There’s a lot of great info there and exactly what I’ve been looking for. Perfect! If you don’t mind maybe I can move this conversation over there and get back to trains.

 

Anyway I was doing some looking around for more information on ScaleTrax and found some complete layout packages. I like the Roosevelt 3 and I understand that you also have to buy 1 & 2 along with the 3 to get the full layout, so I’m looking for some package prices now.

http://mthtrains.com/scaletrax/roosevelt3

Ok so that layout is about $1400 complete with switches and everything except the trains and buildings

Some great information there, though it's mostly for a Snowbird. I loved Wisconsin, but I'll stay in Phoenix. For me, it's a lot easier to get out of Phoenix in the summer, even if it's just to Pinetop-Lakeside, Prescott or Flagstaff. I'll take 100+ of oven-like heat vs the 90s with 90% humidity back east any day. We get out early (I walk at 5 am) and work around the summer heat. If it weren't for family ties, we'd consider outside of Colorado Springs, but as long as we can travel during July/August, we're quite content here. People always find ways to have a model railroad. No better place for G gauge.

A very close friend of mine bought a place up in Northern Idaho near the border that was going to be his retirement home. He was an avid hunter and loved the idea of big game hunting from his porch and was working on his place while still living as my neighbor in S CA. Then he had a heart attack on one of his 2 month long building trips and almost died because he was so far away from medical help.

His doctor and family convinced him to move to Scottsdale AZ where there were plenty of medical facilities. I helped him move and got to check it out. Unfortunately he passed away within a couple of years and never did finish his dream retirement home in Idaho.

,
Sorry about your friend. I've only been through Idaho via Mt Home and Boise. Seemed pretty desolate, but I've been told hunters love it and it does green up north of there all the way to Montana. Metro Phoenix is loaded with hospitals and that is a big factor as we age. I'd love a basement, but I'm just not willing to move back to the Midwest or East to get it.