STD Gauge Daylight, Peek Under The Hood

Thank you for the under the hood photos ....  it is quite an impressive set ...   so glad Jim was able to carry the torch for Dana Barlo ...and improve on his products to give a new generation of collectors some marvelous trains 

see link for action video 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtRarbqPAVM

Wow!  Impressive setup!  Just curious, what's the gear ratio?  Also on those KTM motors, how many poles do the armature rotors have?

That is nice.  That is the 3d?  not cast. 

I would guess. 40 to 1. That is my ratio worm and gear.

riki posted:

That is nice.  That is the 3d?  not cast. 

I would guess. 40 to 1. That is my ratio worm and gear.

Riki, the latest engines use Boston Gear 30:1 32 pitch worm/worm wheel. The original Lee Lines gears were brass on brass and were 40:1. With the RPM range of the KTM motors, really needed a little more top end speed, and they happened to fit nicely into the original form (which can be a real challenge with regearing). The new gears, together with the one piece flexible coupling between the two motors fixes a couple of significant shortcomings in the original engine. 

These engines use aluminum sand castings from patterns I own that date back to the mid 1970's (which are also made out of aluminum, so super durable). I used up about 10 sets of original castings, then had a foundry recast another 10, of which most are out there, including the castings for Steve's engine. I've been using water jet cut mechanism side frames chemically blackened for a while, these are very precise and solve another problem, since Dana drilled holes on a drill press and used a band saw to make the slots on the originals. I ran out of these quickly, and discovered that he kept his rejects, so those went into the trash. I also used machined blocks of aluminum for the motor mounts and the baseplate, these were originally all sheet metal, once again, variability got into the mix making it hard to get these right.

The new setup allows these engines to run for the long haul, as Steve has proved since he got his.

Probably more than you wanted. Still have castings and wheels for another 4 more, then that will probably be it.

Jim

Ted S posted:

Wow!  Impressive setup!  Just curious, what's the gear ratio?  Also on those KTM motors, how many poles do the commutators (armature rotors) have?

Ted, the KTM motors are 5 pole, magnet field motors. Gear ratio on this engine is 30:1 using Boston 32 pitch worm wheel. Made in the 1970's. I still have a box full of unopened motors from Dana's original buy. I have searched high and low for a modern can motor that might replace these, but the armature sits low, so hard to find one that is round that is powerful enough to mate up and power the loco. I have considered going to a single vertical motor, powering axle 2 or 3, with siderods driving the other wheels, but that's also means modifying the mechanism side plates. Might try that on the K4 or the larger scale sized Daylight shells that I have laying around. May need bearings in the side rods!

Jim

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Since receiving this Lee Lines Daylight by Jim Waterman, I had put quite a few hours on it, so I felt it was time for a light service. Thought I’d share some pictures of the mechanism. A Marx steamer gives a little size perspective. You can see the dual KTM motors and the flex coupler to join them to keep them synchronized. Jim uses a 12 amp reverse board to assure it can handle load. The big orange block inside the shell is weight that was added because I ordered mine with 5 cars. The last picture shows a fan driven smoke unit I may install. Early this year I have a Freedom Train version coming.

Steve

Steve, make sure you get the bearings on each end of each motor, check tightness of the 4 set screws on the flex coupling. Can also get all the wheel bearings. You probably already know all this, just saying. Smoke unit looks good. Plenty of space up front I think. Be careful with those eccentric cranks - very fragile, bend once, they are done.

Jim

Jim.

Nice engineering.  I hand made my side rods they are a pain. 

The pitman motor I used works ok. Vertical.  My problem was that I used MC coy small wheel. For the look of the 736.  But . not much clearance for pick up shoe. 

The Hudson I'll use the larger wheels . or machine some depending what motor I use.

Jim Waterman posted:

Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:

Since receiving this Lee Lines Daylight by Jim Waterman, I had put quite a few hours on it, so I felt it was time for a light service. Thought I’d share some pictures of the mechanism. A Marx steamer gives a little size perspective. You can see the dual KTM motors and the flex coupler to join them to keep them synchronized. Jim uses a 12 amp reverse board to assure it can handle load. The big orange block inside the shell is weight that was added because I ordered mine with 5 cars. The last picture shows a fan driven smoke unit I may install. Early this year I have a Freedom Train version coming.

Steve

 

 

Steve, make sure you get the bearings on each end of each motor, check tightness of the 4 set screws on the flex coupling. Can also get all the wheel bearings. You probably already know all this, just saying. Smoke unit looks good. Plenty of space up front I think. Be careful with those eccentric cranks - very fragile, bend once, they are done.

Jim

Jim, too late

Smoke unit is fitted. Need to do some wiring.

Steve

Steve, where did you get the smoke unit and are you pulsing it somehow? I've done a sound unit on these locos with the Dallee board, they have a mag switch that you actuate with magnets on a driven axle (I used the front one because it's more accessible, could see that as a way to pulse the smoke too if it's a motor driven one.).

Jim

I was going  to ask to. Lionel used a cam on the rear axle with a switch.  For chugger. And that is how I did my smoke motor. Tied into chugger.

Jim Waterman posted:

Steve, where did you get the smoke unit and are you pulsing it somehow? I've done a sound unit on these locos with the Dallee board, they have a mag switch that you actuate with magnets on a driven axle (I used the front one because it's more accessible, could see that as a way to pulse the smoke too if it's a motor driven one.).

Jim

It’s been in my pile for years. There was a guy on eBay that sold them. He reworked them to smoke better and work on track voltage, not board voltage. He stopped doing them some time ago. I bought 2 and used one in a 238E a long time ago. Wish I had bought more. I suspect gunrunner could create some from a Lionel or MTH unit.

Steve