@PRRMP54 posted:If you were looking for Current Line or Wagner trolley power trucks, over two hundred went in the sale!
Yes, and in numbers per lot that were way beyond what the average modeler would ever buy. Really reduced my interest in them to zero as I'd be spending the rest of life selling off the excess, and I have better things to do with my time. But I guess for some they were a bargain. We'll probably see stuff trickling about for the next year or 3.
@marty track posted:here is what is totally exciting . This auction shows that our hobby is alive, vibrant, and not dyeing like some people say. O scale is alive in all of its aspects . I am so happy to be a part of the movement !!! I bid on a number of items only to have been blown out of the water !! I guess my collection just went up a notch. what we all have to remember is that this is the greatest hobby on earth!!! lets enjoy it and pass it on !!
Or does it show what most HO scalers already believe, that O Scale is a rich mans hobby and is getting more expensive all the time. Where Atlas plastic costs as much as brass in some cases now. "The future of O Scale".
@oscaletrains posted:Or does it show what most HO scalers already believe, that O Scale is a rich mans hobby and is getting more expensive all the time. Where Atlas plastic costs as much as brass in some cases now. "The future of O Scale".
I would tend to agree. It proves Stout did a great job promoting this auction. It speaks highly for them and their abilities.
If the 2 rail market was really vibrant, more players would be involved and making new product.
Interesting opinions throughout. I often wonder that the inflation in the hobby is just getting ridiculous. I was astonished at the prices fetched for the Pacific Electric items. But there were some pretty good deals like Weaver Hiawatha Atlantic with passenger cars in near mint condition for $750.
@Shawn_Chronister posted:Well thanks for being an Asshat English Professor.
Sloppy typing is very painful to read, and it diminishes the impact and credibility of what you're trying to say.
@swrr posted:Interesting opinions throughout. I often wonder that the inflation in the hobby is just getting ridiculous. I was astonished at the prices fetched for the Pacific Electric items. But there were some pretty good deals like Weaver Hiawatha Atlantic with passenger cars in near mint condition for $750.
swrr,
I agree in general, but the term "inflation" may cause problems. This is not inflation in the typical sense. Here the cost of goods is not going up because the cost of producing them is increasing, but because their perceived value is going up. One is added cost, the other added value. While this unexpected added value is bad for the those of us who've been following the hobby and are used to "affordable" prices, and reasonable price increases over the years, it's also good. Interest in these goods is increasing significantly, leading to the ridiculous prices, but also indicating a genuine renewed interest in the hobby.
It's probably because people have been stuck at home during the pandemic and have needed new hobbies to keep them occupied. Stick around and be patient. It'll go back to something more reasonable after the pandemic calms down -- whenever that happens.
M.H.M.
Since that particular auction was for scale items, perhaps some of the opinions are coming from folks who haven't followed the recent auction results for 3-rail items. Prior to the pandemic, prices for rare/pristine 3-rail items have been very high for a few years, while prices for common items or those in less than mint condition have fallen. As noted by @Mellow Hudson Mike above, an uptick in prices has been driven by people staying at home - this is temporary.
@Mallard4468 posted:Sloppy typing is very painful to read, and it diminishes the impact and credibility of what you're trying to say.
Maybe if the world were less critical of every little flaw the world would be a better place. Too many perfect people in it. I sure hope I used the right too? I am sure someone will point that out if its wrong and english was my worst subject.Too your point most people are able understand things just fine most of the time even with the wrong grammar.
3rd Rail H-1 #3014 2-rail (lot 4303) sold on Stout for $1050 is hilariously already for sale on EBay for $2499 + shipping.
I picked my 3-rail version new in box for $700. Timing is funny. And patience pays off.
I have a "wrong word" thesaurus which at times I am tempted to use on this forum. Just browsing thorough it is quit humorous.
@oscaletrains posted:Or does it show what most HO scalers already believe, that O Scale is a rich mans hobby and is getting more expensive all the time. Where Atlas plastic costs as much as brass in some cases now. "The future of O Scale".
Well that depends on what H.O. are you comparing to. Rapido, Atlas, Broadway Ltd., and Kato would be good comparisons, but not Bachmann. And im not sure of Athern. And Im sure there are other mfgs out there that i'm missing.
I thought the OMI 40-2 that sold for $650 was a decent purchase, but add 19% to that and it is $750 ish or so with shipping I'd guess. Still probably less than you could get it on Ebay maybe. But the vast majority of what sold was WAY over priced it seemed to me.
The final auction prices required at least two bidders, who at the time felt the items were not WAY over priced - so why should you care ?
Nobody cares - it is just conversation. I am happy that a Lobaugh Berk went for a grand; I have six of them. But the sale simply doesn't affect me emotionally other than light happy. It is just interesting.
Interesting - yes
Interesting that at a time O Scale is said to be dying; a reported 500 people took the time during a working day of the week to log into the auction, and based upon the results, at least a few were "actively" bidding
Interesting that at least one person apparently sees that as a negative - I'm interested as to why (?)
@prrhorseshoecurve posted:OK Ill Bite, What was your logic on this? Don't you know how difficult it is to finds parts for GGD 3 rail... let alone GGD 2 rail? IMHO your best bet for GGD stuff is stick with the pre orders or patiently wait for either the 3 rail or 2 rail set that YOU WANT/DESIRE to show up at an auction...
unless you have an edge...like the Kingsford Edge...
that we don't know about!
So far parts for GGD have been easy to find. Nearly 30% of my entire GGD fleet has been converted from 2 rail to 3 rail. Some have been converted by Scott and his team, other cars were converted via parts found elsewhere. I do agree it is much easier to preorder and wait, but with some sets, I worry they will never be produced again. I wasn't in the hobby when the first SF run was produced and have missed some ACL/Seaboard offerings for the same reason.
@bob2 posted:Nobody cares - it is just conversation. I am happy that a Lobaugh Berk went for a grand; I have six of them. But the sale simply doesn't affect me emotionally other than light happy. It is just interesting.
BUT, another one on Ebay that sold at the same time went for $355 or so, so we can't count those chickens yet.
I am depreciating mine. On my last day on earth, my trains will have been depreciated to zero. Someone else gets to count the chickens. Don't tell my spouse - she wants them all sold by croak day.
I was lucky enough to win a pair of Central Loco Works F-7 ab kits in the recent auction. I paid $250 for them plus buyers fee, shipping and tax which brought my total to $325. These are mint in box kits that retailed new for well over $425 30 years ago when they were sold new (is this deflation?). I am thrilled to have two powered BRASS units to add to my collection for what amounts to $162.50 each, a bargain in 2 rail O scale. Granted I have to build, paint, decal and detail them but that is half the fun. Stout has made me realize it may be time to clean out the attic and send all of my old postwar Lionel to them for auction since I have not run them in 20 years. It appears to be a sellers market BUT great bargains can still be had for the buyer that has patience and persistence and is willing to tackle a kit or project. Lots of "handyman specials" sold at that auction for peanuts in my opinion. The ready to run stuff ran the gamut in price, some of which completely surprised me. This is my second purchase from Stout and I have been very happy with both plus the live auctions are a blast to watch. Free entertainment!!
@Cadillac Mike posted:I was lucky enough to win a pair of Central Loco Works F-7 ab kits in the recent auction. I paid $250 for them plus buyers fee, shipping and tax which brought my total to $325. These are mint in box kits that retailed new for well over $425 30 years ago when they were sold new (is this deflation?). I am thrilled to have two powered BRASS units to add to my collection for what amounts to $162.50 each, a bargain in 2 rail O scale. Granted I have to build, paint, decal and detail them but that is half the fun. Stout has made me realize it may be time to clean out the attic and send all of my old postwar Lionel to them for auction since I have not run them in 20 years. It appears to be a sellers market BUT great bargains can still be had for the buyer that has patience and persistence and is willing to tackle a kit or project. Lots of "handyman specials" sold at that auction for peanuts in my opinion. The ready to run stuff ran the gamut in price, some of which completely surprised me. This is my second purchase from Stout and I have been very happy with both plus the live auctions are a blast to watch. Free entertainment!!
Well, I was going to bid on those but someone came in my office and just as they left I glanced at the screen to see them marked sold and moving on to the next lot. I really only wanted them for the running gear stuff though so good for you if you are going to build them up.
Oh you bet they will be built up, run and loved. 90% of what I use was manufactured between 1950-1990. Now I just cannot decide whether to go NYC grey passenger lightning stripe or Maine Central green pine tree scheme......hmm.
Since they are brass, you can do one, then strip and do the other. My experience with CLW is that there are always missing or incorrect parts in there. Double -check, especially trucks and wheels. CLW still exists, and is a source for missing parts.
Thanks Bob, I may just do that! I have a box o' parts from the ghosts of CLW past. I believe I have two complete built up trucks and assorted fuel tanks, GP 7 ends and the like. One year just for fun I took a CLW GP 7 body and affixed it to a Red Caboose running gear complete with P&D frame. Sounds like a Frankenstein but it all fit together quite well and runs like a $1000 brass engine especially with the NWSL drop in wheelsets.
@mwb posted:I was thinking that stuff would be showing up on eBay pretty quickly......at even higher prices.
Yep. I noticed a few more today. The Weaver yellow Jacket and passenger car set. Same seller has a ton of inventory at crazy prices. I'm certain there are others. I guess he can make a few bucks or he wouldn't be doing it.
We'll see what the market will decide.
I'm skeptical. The shrinking number of people who want must have items and are willing to pay high prices for things that aren't available anymore go to Stout Auction to over pay. They don't go to eBay and pay double the price it was purchased for at Stout.
eBay past sell prices sure don't seem to support these inflated prices. I never see the older Weaver stuff going very high in eBay with exception of what are probably some rarer items.
The higher prices paid for the Stout auction reflex increased demand and inflation of the US dollar. Prices of almost everything are higher in US dollars. Thank you US Federal Reserve and US government for printing too many US dollars and spending money they do not have.
Some houses in Austin, TX are now selling for three times what they sold for one year ago.
Things are not going to end well.
Charlie
I saw some of those Weaver sets on Stout go for reasonable prices but you have to remember that was the "gavel" price. They add a buyers fee, tax and shipping to the gavel price. My $250 purchase at the auction very quickly became almost $350 after all the add ons. Still a reasonable price for what I bought but 40% additional by the time it arrived to my door is a bit excessive in my opinion. I would imagine they charge $60 or more to ship an entire set and the buyers fee increases with the gavel price so the $800 Weaver set quickly becomes over $1100-1300 by the time the "lucky" buyer gets it delivered. Ebay snags 10% of the selling price and another 10% of the shipping so I venture to say the people that bought them to resell really are not making that much of a profit.
I'd be careful about ebay past sales as guidance on pricing (and thus profit)
I was going to bid on an Overland Flat Car. With days left in the auction, the price is already far in excess of what I was going to bid.
Other brass models that I have recently bid on went for far more than I thought they would, based upon past bids / auction wins / numbers I have seen.
Amplifying a point above, where I am in the south, a home that would have been priced at 250k in Jan 2020 is 400k today, and it draws multiple offers the first day on market.
We are in a new normal, and it is quite the change.
I've been following some of the items from the auction which are now being flipped for profit. It appears that some of the deals at the auction were even better than I originally thought. For example, the NYC Mercury engine plus 3 cars which went for $675 is now on ebay with a bid at $1899 with a couple days still left to go. Wow!
I've been running searches for "O Gauge" and "O Scale" on eBay for about 5 years now, and for the most part I enjoy seeing what comes back. I've bought a number of things during that time, almost always because there were still bargains to be had in spite of what I considered large-scale overpricing. There have occasionally been unusual things reasonably-priced to add to my collection and I so I purchased.
I think that in general most sellers on eBay have closet dreams of getting rich while simultaneously unloading things that they've accumulated.
However the "dealers" that sell on eBay rarely have items that I'd buy because high pricing seems to be even more important to them. For this reason you often see them having pages and pages of listings that never seem to change, much less shrink. These folks, in my opinion, are very satisfied with showing you their collections. That's what their listings turn out to be -- since they'll gladly hold on to them for years before letting anything go at a more modest, and reasonable, price.
Success with retail sales is based on throughput -- the more you push through, and the faster you sell it, the more money you make. More importantly you don't make anything by holding on to your stuff on principle. Dealers should know this. eBay should push the concept because more frequent transactions mean more money for them.
Lately it seems things have gotten worse. Some of this we can certainly attribute to a renewed interest in hobbies due to the pandemic and it's lock-down. Noticeably higher prices are appearing because demand is up, and items that are priced higher are actually selling. It's good for our hobby that our stuff has gained some value, instead of slowly falling like it had been before COVID-19.
But these post-auction listings on items originally handled by Stout are simply ridiculous. I have the Mercury set mentioned in Daniel's post. I bought it brand new back in 2005 or 2006 and probably paid as much then as the current seller on eBay is asking now.
If you look at this seller's entire roster it appears that this person stands to make at least $35,000 on what probably cost $20k at the auction, at the most. He/She lists most every item as being "rare" when none of them are. This is definitely a get-rich-quick scenario. Normally I'd be pleased that my Mercury and the cars have appreciated in value, but not in this case.
BTW -- Based on the size of his/her collection, and the prices he/she is asking, you'd think he/she'd have more professional pictures. They're not detailed enough for the discriminating buyer to see what they're getting for their money. They're taken with a flash so the few colors that are present are completely washed out, and that beautiful gray comes off as much darker that it really is. This is an amateur trying to convince people that he/she's a professional.
If we wait a while, and probably not too long at that, things will return to where they were on eBay before the pandemic -- generally too high but not unexpected, and with a few bargains thrown in. Patience is a virtue.
M.H.M.
@Daniel Raible posted:I've been following some of the items from the auction which are now being flipped for profit. It appears that some of the deals at the auction were even better than I originally thought. For example, the NYC Mercury engine plus 3 cars which went for $675 is now on ebay with a bid at $1899 with a couple days still left to go. Wow!
675 is all its worth. Neither the engine nor the cars are well made though they are unique. From the factory they are best suited for display only. Not one of 3rd Rails better efforts.
Pete
@Daniel Raible posted:I've been following some of the items from the auction which are now being flipped for profit. It appears that some of the deals at the auction were even better than I originally thought. For example, the NYC Mercury engine plus 3 cars which went for $675 is now on ebay with a bid at $1899 with a couple days still left to go. Wow!
The slightly good news is, these "flippers" will be getting 1099-Ks now and will have to pay taxes on that income.
Tax at the original point of sale, tax paid at the Stout auction, tax paid by the Ebay buyer and now the Ebay seller at the end of the year. Bold strategy for sure but not for anyone that actually loves the toy trains.
@Cadillac Mike posted:Tax at the original point of sale, tax paid at the Stout auction, tax paid by the Ebay buyer and now the Ebay seller at the end of the year. Bold strategy for sure but not for anyone that actually loves the toy trains.
If you are a reseller on eBay (profit motive) you can get a sales tax number with your state comptroller and then present that to the auction house you are buying from. At that point, you don't have to pay sales tax to the auction house for the auction sales.
I am in agreement with Mellow Hudson Mike, I don't think any of that sellers prices are realistic or reflective of the market.
There are many items I watch on eBay the are high priced and stay on sale for ever. Much of it when it doesn't get relisted is not due to sale, but because the seller obviously gave up, then they relist again later. I watch eBay off and on and these trends pretty much stay the same.
My second thought is similar to others as that once people start going out again it will change the market dynamics. There will be a lot of items on the market later this year and into the next several years where people are trying to recoup from their extravagant hobby expenditures they got carried away with in isolation. I have several different hobby interests and can see this in all of them. People will do things out of boredom that aren't normal or sustainable.
Then there will always be those people who overspend like a certain military retiree and expects to get full retail for their 20+ year old and obsolete trains.
The fact that the manufacturers are seeing little demand for 2 Rail and that MTH has fragmented in it's sale this past year is a good indication of the market.
@rplst8 posted:If you are a reseller on eBay (profit motive) you can get a sales tax number with your state comptroller and then present that to the auction house you are buying from. At that point, you don't have to pay sales tax to the auction house for the auction sales.
But you will end up paying both your own state and then Fed income tax for everything you sell on eBay. Depending on what state you live in now, you may already be liable for state income tax on any eBay sales regardless of being a dealer or a business, or not.
@mwb posted:But you will end up paying both your own state and then Fed income tax for everything you sell on eBay. Depending on what state you live in now, you may already be liable for state income tax on any eBay sales regardless of being a dealer or a business, or not.
Income tax is only owed on eBay sales if done for a profit motive - or if you make goods as a hobby and sell them, not for sales of personally owned goods. A good rule of thumb - if you have owned it and used it in your home - or would sell it at a garage/yard sale - it's not for a profit motive.
Examples where you would not owe income tax:
Examples where you would owe income tax:
In these last two cases, you can expense the purchases you make as a business. So say you buy a train for $100 and sell it for $200. You can expense the $100 + fuel/mileage + transportation costs, etc. etc. Say that totals $150, then your profit is $50 and you would owe taxes on that $50.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not advice - just my opinion.
@rplst8 posted:Income tax is only owed on eBay sales if done for a profit motive - or if you make goods as a hobby and sell them, not for sales of personally owned goods. A good rule of thumb - if you have owned it and used it in your home - or would sell it at a garage/yard sale - it's not for a profit motive.
That used to be true (sort of...) but not in many states any more - you'll get a 1099k from eBay in those states that require notification of internet sales regardless of motive or what platform you are using to sell on all triggered by just selling.
I am not a lawyer, and this is not advice - just my opinion.
I wish I could apply your opinion to my taxes and sales from last year, but my accountant and the state I live in won't accept opinions.
"That used to be true (sort of...) but not in many states any more - you'll get a 1099k from eBay in those states that require notification of internet sales regardless of motive or what platform you are using to sell on all triggered by just selling."
You said it correctly. I got jammed on taxes last year because I made the mistake of selling a vintage car on Ebay in addition to some trains. While I actually took a loss on the car (think depreciation and sweat equity in maintaining a classic car plus the 10% Ebay fee) it still counted as over $20k on my income taxes which killed any chance of stimulus checks for me and the missus when combined with our regular salaries from working. Somebody may be getting rich off selling stuff online but it certainly isn't the working stiffs just trying to earn a little extra income. The tax rules are confiscatory and absolutely ridiculous since every owner of that car has paid sales tax on it since 1961 and now I paid income tax on it to boot.
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