sunset announces the Virginian EL2B

Did they stay in service through the take-over of the Virginian by N&W?

My roster of N and W engines shows that they had four of these. It doesn't indicate where they were obtained.

We have a video of N and W and Virginian electrics: I will try to get time to watch it again and see what it includes.

Hi,

just wonder, why Sunset anounced this model, which was built in only 4 (double) units, and they mean, the get enough reservations? And on the other hand, for an sd40, built in thousands, there is  still a weak reservation?

Is this model to say, "i have the largest electric engine"?  Has every buyer a catenary on the layout to run a little prototype-like?

kindest regards

Elmar

The VGN EL2B were on the roster, but were put in storage at the time of the merger and never repainted into N&W.

The EL-C's did make to the N&W liveries as well as New Haven and Conrail.

Amtrak X995 posted:

Hi,

just wonder, why Sunset anounced this model, which was built in only 4 (double) units, ...

Elmar 

Going on a limb here, but quantity of the original prototype doesn't look like a big factor. Two examples, the PRR 6200 Turbine and N&W 2300 Steam Turbine Electric. Both were one-offs. The PRR 6200 has been popular for years. I am very grateful to Scott for building the N&W 2300.

Will they get enough reservations? Scott likely thinks so, or it would not have been offered. I wish them well.

I have plead my case for the N&W S1a with no avail. There were opportunities to legitimately offer this in C&O, N&W, and Virginian liveries. I also suggested offering extra tenders. What is the basis for what 3rd Rail builds? I dunno.

Gilly@N&W posted:

Amtrak X995 posted:

Hi,

just wonder, why Sunset anounced this model, which was built in only 4 (double) units, ...

Elmar 

Going on a limb here, but quantity of the original prototype doesn't look like a big factor. Two examples, the PRR 6200 Turbine and N&W 2300 Steam Turbine Electric. Both were one-offs. The PRR 6200 has been popular for years. I am very grateful to Scott for building the N&W 2300.

Will they get enough reservations? Scott likely thinks so, or it would not have been offered. I wish them well.

I have plead my case for the N&W S1a with no avail. There were opportunities to legitimately offer this in C&O, N&W, and Virginian liveries. I also suggested offering extra tenders. What is the basis for what 3rd Rail builds? I dunno.

"What is the basis for what 3rd Rail builds?"

Obviously what people reserve/order! 

Amtrak X995 posted:

Hi,

just wonder, why Sunset anounced this model, which was built in only 4 (double) units, and they mean, the get enough reservations? And on the other hand, for an sd40, built in thousands, there is  still a weak reservation?

Is this model to say, "i have the largest electric engine"?  Has every buyer a catenary on the layout to run a little prototype-like?

kindest regards
Elmar

The EL-2b is a majestic looking locomotive and much better looking than say a "Baby Face Baldwin". The SD40 is not.

I also think that this unit would not look very much out of place if there was no catenary. I hope Scott does well with this missing piece of the electric puzzle.

Hot Water posted:

 

Obviously what people reserve/order! 

But, if it is never offered, there cannot/will not be any preorders. So, who's to say how well the N&W S1a would have done? Nothing can change the fact that N&W S1a Cab #244 was the last steam locomotive ever built for a Class 1 Railroad.

IMHO, that alone makes this model significant.

 Just my $0.02.

I agree, however Scott has learned that making a "smaller" steam locomotive model does NOT necessarily mean it will cost less than, say a 2-8-2, 4-6-4, or 4-8-4. The only recent exception was the N&W M Class 4-8-0, which sold very well. Way too many buyers just don't seem to want to pay such a "high price" (in their minds) for an 0-8-0 or 0-6-0. I am surprised at how well the Southern Pacific 0-6-0 models have done. Go figure!

I've got a number of Virginian books and I didn't see the first picture of any of them in N&W paint. The N&W however did renumber them (as well as the EL-C's of which a few did make it into N&W paint before being sold to the NH). The EL-2b's were in service on the N&W for a few years before the electrification was abandoned. In fact they split one unit into two so the single engine could be used as a pusher.

I am probably in for one of these, however I have doubts there will be enough reservations although Scott did make a VGN 2-10-10-2 which is another unusual engine.

I agree with Gilly that a C&O/N&W/VGN S1a 0-8-0 would be desirable. Sometimes it seems that big steam sells and little engines don't.

Ken

I'm with Gilly. The USRA 0-8-0 has a lot of miles (read Railroads) that can be traveled down. Again, #244 makes this an important loco.

Now, I know this idea really scares the beegeebers out of you cast in stoners, but, if any steam locomotive lends itself to be made in plastic, the USRA 0-8-0 is the loco! Think along the lines of AMT 3 in 1 model car kits. With a standard running gear, the add on options are almost limitless!

The VGN is an easy sell as that they are built in brass. Since they come in pairs like the prototype Scott only has to sell 25 sets which is equal to 50 units. The Cincinnatian locomotive run was only 50 units in brass. Now Scott has to decide which version he is going to build.

Stephen

I'm in will be placing order next week

The only reason the Cincinnatian run was 50 units was because the P7D shares a lot with the non-streamlined P7E that was produced at the same time.  These days, 100 units total is still the magic number.  However, the Jawn Henry did well as a one off.  The EL-2b is a very cool electric.  Not my modeling location, but a very interesting locomotive.   

GG1 4877 posted:

The only reason the Cincinnatian run was 50 units was because the P7D shares a lot with the non-streamlined P7E that was produced at the same time.  These days, 100 units total is still the magic number.  However, the Jawn Henry did well as a one off.  it's a very cool electric.  Not my modeling location, but a very interesting locomotive.   

There were 175 total B&O P-7d and P-7e locomotives built by Sunset. This was during the era when 125 was the minimum number.

Jawn Henry isn't an electric, although it is neat.

B Smith posted:

Jawn Henry isn't an electric, although it is neat.

That was a grammar fail on my part.  Of course the Jawn Henry is a steam turbine with a condensing steam tender.  I was simply referring to the fact that it was a Sunset one off that did well.  Back to fix my original post. 

GG1 4877 posted:

B Smith posted:

Jawn Henry isn't an electric, although it is neat.

That was a grammar fail on my part.  Of course the Jawn Henry is a steam turbine with a condensing steam tender.  I was simply referring to the fact that it was a Sunset one off that did well.  Back to fix my original post. 

Condensing steam tender? 

Nope.  Just a 22,000 gallon water tender with water treatment tanks, plus an added auxiliary water tender.

Rusty

For whatever reason I thought it had a condensing section.  Not sure where I got that from.  I think I'm done posting for the day.  Trying to work and play on the forum are not working well for me at all. 

Back to the EL-2b and on topic.

Amtrak X995 posted:

Hi,

just wonder, why Sunset anounced this model, which was built in only 4 (double) units, and they mean, the get enough reservations? And on the other hand, for an sd40, built in thousands, there is  still a weak reservation?

Is this model to say, "i have the largest electric engine"?  Has every buyer a catenary on the layout to run a little prototype-like?

 

kindest regards

 

Elmar

 

 

I'll step out on a limb here Elmar and say that the reason for the offering is the same as the offerings for Big Boys, Cab Forwards and Alleghenies... and GG1's

Big and unique locomotives have an appeal that goes beyond the average  2 railer (like me)  who buys locos that fits the road he is modeling.

Not to get into the typical urinating match over non-prototypical paint offerings.  I suspect that in the best business practice, whatever sells is what Mr. Mann will offer... even if it's offered lettered for NS. 

PSC imported the N&W S-1a and the C&O C-16a many years ago.

Ed

GG1 4877 -- You may be thinking of the two steam-turbine electrics that GE built for the Union Pacific in 1938, each of which incorporated condensing apparatus carried in the locomotive itself, rather than in a separate tender. 

The ad offers the locos in VGN or N&W paint. Since this stuff is almost built to order these days, I suspect they will deliver in either scheme. I would suspect very few takers for an engine that was never repainted in N&W but we'll see.

I have a Penn Line New Haven GG1 that I've had since I was a kid, and I like it, but it never existed in that scheme.

Just great that Scott is looking to make this fantastic electric.

Jim

Ed Kelly posted:

PSC imported the N&W S-1a and the C&O C-16a many years ago.

Ed

So, as the Beach Boys sang..."Do It Again"!

I found a color picture of the ex-VGN EL-C rectifier (#235) that was repainted in N&W colors. Unfortunately its in a book so I can't post it. It's blue with orange or very dark yellow lettering. The road name is spelled out in block lettering on the hood with the road number underneath. Heralds are on the side of the cab and the nose. The herald is the one with the cursive N&W within a circle. If Scott is going to do a fantasy N&W scheme EL-2b seems like it should be like the one on the EL-C.

What we also need is a fleet of affordable battleship gondolas to go with this engine as well as the earlier VGN AE 2-10-10-2. Maybe in plastic? How about it Scott?

Ken

Guys,

Thanks for your info and enthusiasm for these new projects. Since I am not a Railroad Expert and I don't pretend to be, I greatly appreciate your corrections to my initial offering. It is now obviouse to me that the EL-2B never adorned N&W markings, but with a small run of these I can attend to customer's requests to letter it that way.

So I will leave the offering up.. and make it clear it was never seen that way, but could have been if they lasted longer. 

I am always looking for new and unique projects that will catch your eye. Then we can finance these productions. Your suggestions and constructive criticism is always welcome.

Added to the description on the web site:

"Available in VGN and N&W Liveries (PAIRs). The EL-2b was never actually lettered for N&W, but we will do this for customers as requested. It was planned, but never actually painted N&W from what I understand before they were retired and sadly scrapped in 1959."

All My Best,

Scott Mann

Dec 1,1959: VGN/N&W merger

June 20, 1962: Former Virginian electrification turned off

1963: EL-2b's scrapped in Richmond, Va. Motor-generator sets from the units went to the US Navy.

Ken

The EL2bs are massive and I predict they will sell.  They have never been done in O scale 2-rail or 3-rail.   Supposedly they have the same nose as the Little Joe.  The sets were broken and run as a single unit instead of pairs.  I have N&W/C&O/VGN 0-8-0s from PSC and US Hobbies.  This will be a one time offering, you snooze you lose so they will disappear fast..............that is my humble opinion.  I've already sent a reservation to Scott,

VGN 2-rail.

Ken

......you snooze you lose....

I get the angst.

But seriously

I am glad Sunset's making a run at these instead of some other builder that disappoints regularly; at least I'm reasonably sure whatever SS does is car-body wise, remotely true to the builder plans and not some shortened excuse for the model. I’ve made my peace with the truck frame width issue because it’s still light years easier than scratching the same assembly.  If you’re a 2-rail fan of stuff like this, make no mistake-  these are the good times. I will be quite surprised if these do not fully subscribe.

I am continually amazed at how brittle the hobby has become when the manufacturers do not deliver our esoteric expectations. The VGN EL-2B is a wildly exotic prototype by any measurement. I’ve lived   expecting having to make a model like this from Kemtron AAR B trucks, a custom built chassis and car body from …………. anyone?…………………..Bueller?   from what ever.

So  why is this ……bad?......

atlpete posted:

I am continually amazed at how brittle the hobby has become when the manufacturers do not deliver our esoteric expectations. The VGN EL-2B is a wildly exotic prototype by any measurement. I’ve lived   expecting having to make a model like this from Kemtron AAR B trucks, a custom built chassis and car body from …………. anyone?…………………..Bueller?   from what ever.

So  why is this ……bad?......

It's not! Why anyone would hope for failure blows my sox off! Maybe this one is of no interest, but maybe the next one will be. One thing is certain.....if there are enough failures, there might not be a next one, and that's no good for anybody!

Simon

This is a good-looking engine. It kind of reminds me of the Alco DL 109s.

I hope Scott gets enough pre-orders so he makes them for you guys who want one!

Peter

Putnam Division posted:

This is a good-looking engine. It kind of reminds me of the Alco DL 109s.

 

wow.

I wonder if Scott will offer a "fixed pilot" for this one, too. 

Seriously, though, this is the sort of engine...in all its uniqueness...that only Scott can do credibly for the O2R/O3R mixed crowd.  I'm very happy for you VGN-ophiles.

And, I'll put my quarterly oar into the water for more uniqueness....B&O's EA's and ATSF's E1's....or that other set of Beano-Bonnet homely forerunners.....the B&O #50 and ATSF 'Amos & Andy', 1A-1B....both of which grace page 28 of John McCall's book "Santa Fe's Early Diesel Daze".  The E's?.....pure iconic pizazz.  The boxy other pair?....the 'Edsels' of the high iron with faces....and butts...that only a mother (and Beano-Bonnet mavens) could love.

sigh.

'Til next quarter.....

@sdmann - how are the preorders coming for this beauty?

Would you consider doing a run of O gauge "Battleship" Virginian gondolas to go with the EL2Bs? After all we'll need a train for them to pull!  

I think any model battleship gon will work - and even for those that don't order the EL2B, the Battleship Gons will go well with the Virginian Allegheny and other steam engines offered by MTH and Lionel, as well as Chesapake & Ohio as the C&O often would forward VGN trains back to Charleston (there are photos of this). 

And I think there was even a use on the N&W too. 

Thansk for your consideration and fellow forumites - if you want some Battleship gons voice your support to Scott here! 

If you want an N&W battleship gon, this is what you need:Could be an easy scratchbuild,if you can find Pilcher trucks.
It may be that they were off the roster in the late steam era. I forget..

Re the VGN gon and 3rd Rail: If 3rd Rail could afford the investment to do them in plastic, they could sell. As I recall, Rich Yoder did them in brass for a bunch of money. What would be 3rdRail's payoff for doing them again?

Returned to China a few days ago to work on the PAs and other new projects that are on-going here. I was able to secure drawings from the NWHS with the generosity and  help of Douglas Davenport. These drawings will ensure that this project will be done accurately. We have enough reservations now to begin design and production of the EL-2b this year. Thank you all for your help in reserving and supporting this project.

more curious what will be the replacement for the SD 

Cor

Scott,

Will this model be using the same gears as all the current diesel models?  If so, we can use our conversion kits to make them able to run of P:48 track.

Jay