Super-Duper layouts

Kerrigan,

That is the only way to build YOUR Layout.

Slow and steady as she goes.

My wife (the painter and design guru) and I have built our layout from scratch.

I did receive Very Much Help from some great guys here on OGR also.

My plan is to Name certain parts of my layout in their names.

Sought of a neat way to say Thanks for the help guys..

Enjoy and keep those wheels turning.

I'm not knocking it, some folks lack the time and the inclination and have plenty money, but even if I had the space and could afford to have a magnificent layout made by a custom builder I much prefer to build my own, more humble, layout.  I certainly don't want to miss out on any part of the fun, much of which is doing it myself.  Even if the scenery and "vignettes" are less than splendid at least I can say, "I did it myself."  I didn't just buy my scenes "crafted" by an expert.

Pete

I agree with Texas Pete,building it yourself is what i enjoy most,& when i am running trains i enjoy more because it is my own ideas that i have put on the layout.

If I could afford it (which I can't), the only thing I might remotely consider having done by the professionals would be a layout plan that I could use to build it myself. I don't know a lot about rail roads and I find the planning part the most difficult. Especially the switching, yards, where things should go etc.

The professionally built layouts are really neat, with some amazing things on them, but as far as having someone build a layout for me I would never do that. Putting everything together and installing it is part of the fun of having a layout. I can do most of that myself and enjoy doing it. I really like the wiring and electronics part of the hobby and find that as much fun as the trains themselves. I also have a LOT more time than I do money.

I think that it is a huge kick to design and build your own layout. There is an added sense of pride to know that you did it.

There are folks that don't have the time or the inclination do build their own and use a professional firm to do it for them, and that's fine. But they will never have the added pleasure to say I did it.

I agree.  I can not imagine hiring someone to have all the fun for you!

I always thought that designing and building a layout was the best part of the hobby.Seeing what many of the guys have done on OGR forum is what makes me look up to them.Anyone can go out,buy a train and run it.Nick

In the mid-70's I worked for a Lionel Service Station. Many times a guy would come in and ask if we'd build a layout for him. One of the first questions the owner would ask the guy would be, "Is this for you or your son/daughter?"  If for himself, we'd build the layout. If the guy wanted US to build a layout for HIS child, the owner of the shop would sit and lecture the guy for about 5-10 minutes how our shop would not do the dad's job for him. That's part of parenthood, he explained, as all the old catalogs would show dad and lad on the floor putting a layout together.

That's part of parenthood, he explained, as all the old catalogs would show dad and lad on the floor putting a layout together.

Wholeheartedly agree!  My son and I have spent a lot of time together building and creating.  In turn, he's learning about construction, electricity and modeling.  And sometimes he teaches me a think or two.

Ron

I'm not liking the whole designing my own layout thing.  Can't come up with something I like that fits in my space.  So I'd love to have someone else do it if I had the money so I could just play with my trains.

A few years ago I was talking with a fellow at York who constructed beautiful layouts for people--I saw his display with photos and a small set-up.  He told me that a guy who had lots of money paid him to work on one for him for a lot of money--and I mean a lot of money.  He hired additional people to assist him and I guess the thing had everything on it, including weathered buildings and rolling stock, trees, massive mountains, etc.

Now, once this was set-up for the guy, that was it.  He ran the train around and everyone who came to see it admired it, I'm sure. My suspicion is that once his friends and family members had the experience of seeing it and he had run out of fun just watching it go along the track, it was done for him.  Contrast that with a person who grows with the hobby, perhaps starting out small or very elementary in his presentation.  After awhile his creativity comes to the fore and he begins to tweak the system with additional landscaping.  Next, he may decide to make mountains or run an additional track line or add buildings.  Then he might completely revamp the layout and start all over with a new concept.  He may consolidate all the electrical wiring and streamline that aspect of his layout.  My point is that a layout should never be done or completed--it is an on-going, organic process.  That is why it is a hobby.  My wife characterized it as how much "play value" you get out of it.  Passing the time installing ballast should be the goal and not just getting it done.  Doing a little each day, fully expecting that it will never be totally finished, will give you a perspective that accepts the slow inexorable process as an end in itself and you will enjoy it more.  The guy who paid a lot for his dream layout had nowhere else to go--he didn't want to remake his layout after paying so much to make it perfect.  Be happy that you can experience your own spark of creativity as you go along in the journey which, hopefully, will  be a never-ending one!

I will be building a layout again after my recent move.  After beginning 4 layouts and then moving, this time I'm planning on having someone do the bench work.  I have been working on a plan and I will lay the track and do the scenery. I just don't want to do the benchwork again. Plus it will be on the second floor. Lots of wood to carry up.

Doug N

Too me the hobby is the engine electronics end, repairing/ tweaking etc. Infact I work for a dealer performing MTH PS2 repairs & conversions. Also do the same kind of work with DCC.

I also enjoy custom building of rolling stock in brass & plastic which also involves painting and decaling.

So in short I just don't have the time to build a elaborate layout...let someone else do it  

GG-1FAN, You said it better than i ever could you hit the nail on the head,then again to each his own.

I've been watching real trains a lot more closely lately and got a couple of books on track planning. One is John Armstrong's track planning book. It's helping, but I still don't get it all. That's where having a knowledgeable person around for consultation would be nice. The book by John Armstrong is actually starting to make some sense. Not completely, but at least I am starting to think there may be some hope now. 

To all that don't like bench work, check out Mianne. It's really nice stuff, easy to assemble and very sturdy. To begin my permanent layout last year I ordered their 6' x 16' kit. They added some extra holes in the legs for shelving below the layout at no extra charge. Very good people to work with, offered suggestions and helped me with my selections.

The three cartons of bench work arrived about 2 weeks later. It was not their busy season when I ordered. It took probably about 4-5 hours to unpack and sort all the parts, read the directions and complete the assembly. Next morning I went to Home Depot and got 3 sheets of their 1/2" sandply plywood and had them cut it smaller into pieces I could handle. Installed the top when I got back home with the plywood. Probably another 2-3 hours and it was complete ready for track.

In about 8 hours I was ready for track. I just put together a couple of loops (O-63 & O-54) with some spurs and sidings which took another 2-3 days to install and wire. A couple weeks later I ordered their transformer cart and the extra pieces needed to add the shelves under the layout that we had talked about on my first order and they had made the extra holes for at the time of the first order.

Anyway the bench work using Mianne was really simple and fast. Considering the time saved, trips to Home Depot, Lowes or hardware stores that I did NOT have to make for this, that or the other thing when doing your own design for bench work, I think the price of the Mianne system was well worth it. Some more advantages were no power saws needed, no sawdust, no big messes to clean up after each building session (really only one building session) no sawdust, no scrap lumber left over, no sawdust, no mis-cut lumber, no sawdust, etc. A real bargain actually. I was really pretty surprised by how easy it all was and how quickly it all went together.

This was just a starter to get some trains running and do some experimenting. I have never had a real permanent layout before, except for a small 4'x8' my father built when I was a kid. I wanted to get something bigger than the temporary layouts I had  over the last few years and try to learn a little more about what I liked and what I did not like. Now if I could just finalize my expansion plans and come up with a final layout plan I would continue on with the project. So the layout design is my biggest stumbling block. Then there's the budget that also comes into play and slows things down here and there.

Honestly, I could see myself contracting someone to come in and do the bench/wood work for my own design, and I could also envision letting them check my design and offer critique on how to improve it.  I'm not much of a wood-worker and I would be willing to pay for that part, just as I would for cabinets or anything else wood-related.  I would like to wire and landscape on my own - these things I can do (not well, but I can do them...) and I enjoy that part of the process. 

To me it comes down to "do you actually like to do it?"   If the answer is 'yes', then the work is fun/therapeutic and its worth the time and effort.  If the answer is a resounding 'NO', then I have to figure out what my time (and aggravation) is worth.   

My layout only had me as the construction engineer.  As I have said before though, I have been at it now for over 10 years.

.....

Dennis

Impressive as they are, there's a certain sameness to a lot of the professionally built layouts.  Personally, I'd rather see a mediocre layout that was built by the owner, because it provides insight into his vision and motivation.  Having said all that, this is what's great about toy/model trains - there's room for all skill levels and areas of interest.  If having someone build your layout is the difference between running trains or not, then by all means go for it.

I think in a way that's why I have not really cared for the newer Model RailRoader  issues, due to the huge layouts that are shown. There are no small layouts built by a average person. I still admire the huge layouts but I get more out of a small layout built by one person not by a professional company.

I've saw this similar question in the collector car world-building a car yourself or buying one professionally restored. And, the responses are similar to here.  As long as you enjoy yourself, it doesn't matter. 

I never realized that many of the layouts featured in the magazines are professionally built. Look, anyone is free to enjoy the hobby any way they want, and I understand that some do not have the time, money or inclination to do it all themselves but if this is really true, then it kind of rankles me that a person who had his layout built for him gets "rewarded" with a spread in one of the magazines.

I don't see anything wrong with sub-contracting part of the project out to a professional but to me it wouldn't be my layout if someone else built it and all I was doing was playing with it.  

In building our Model Railroad, I did all the bench work, L Girder, and all the track design which came partially planned and partially not. I brought in many friends in the hobby, and some professionally thinking friends for Scenery. In other words, my Scenic friends could hide my mistakes. I did the wiring myself with a good friend. If you do your own wiring, you can track shorts, etc. Also, we made it mandatory for 072 minimum diameter, and 0120 the widest diameter. We also used Pre-Curved Track, Cork Roadbed, over Homesote  over 5/8 Plywood. It took many many Hours, lots of patience, and lots of revisions, but after 18 Years, it's 95% Finished. It's all Lionel Legacy, and Yes, if You do most of the Work Yourself, You will Have the Most Fun.  Leapin Larry's Looney Lines Railroad, a Layout You may visit if in Tennessee....Happy Railroading.

I have always thought that the price of the layout should be published, if not owner built.

It is, after all, an ad for that company that they probably did not have to pay for. If they did pay for it, then the article should be labeled "ad" and listed on the ad page in the back.

In my mind, paying someone to do it all for you is "cheating". Where's the fun in that? Instant gratification - anything for money.

As many of you know, I'm building a huge layout, and for the last couple years I've been getting help with it. But this is MY hobby, and I still put in more hours than all of my help combined. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 If someone wants to run a train, how he accomplishes this, is his business. Yes, I think he's missing out. Who cares what I think?(target is up) 

My "billionaire's layout" will need multiple trade crews, and a short-line to supply it.

 I do love the "pre-sale forcing feeding" of better family values 

Its almost like he is selling a puppy responsibly.

   A general price would be interesting no matter the builder.

    There are those riding the line between business, and hobby. My opinion...

  If your building a "showcase", like a dealer display, it should have the business name predominant in the article.

 If really built from the heart, and/or likely to stay with you if the business is dropped tomorrow, your name, not the businesses, should "star".   

One of the things in any hobby that has a creativity component to it is a concept that one is trying to fulfill with his/her abilities, inclinations, and finances.  When I view a beautifully professionally done layout, I am inspired.  I may also be somewhat jealous that I don't have the skills to create such a display, have the money to "buy" one, or perhaps not the enthusiasm (even with the skills) to forge ahead and do it.  It's like some of the folks on here with beautiful basements or outbuildings to house their layouts that make for a nice place to display them.  So we dream of having what we see--immediately.  Now, I realize that not all of us are master carpenters, including myself, and I really wish I had as much space to house my hobbies as does my brother-in-law who collects classic cars in a specially heated large garage.  But I don't.  But there are several things that I've learned over the few years that I've been seriously involved in this particular hobby:  People who do their own creative things, even if inspired by the pros, are euphoric when they are successful, make a discovery that they want to share with others, and want to keep advancing their creativity--that is the magic of this hobby.  Sure, they might use the pros for certain things because of their inabilities or disinclination to perform the task themselves, but that does not supplant their own stamp on their layout.  There is probably a part of us who think we are not "as good" as others in the hobby because our display is just so simple, elementary, more classic than realistic, etc. by comparison.  I know that sometimes I feel that way myself when I see some of the photos of layouts from the very people on this forum--they are simply fantastic.  Some of them are made by folks who have spent many long years in the hobby and have collected many engines, cars, and other items in their journey.  They have been able to expand and create large track lines and have had the time to constantly refine their layouts over those long years.  I didn't, but I don't think that I want to accelerate the process by buying my layout ready-made at this point in my life.  The fact that some on here are looking for help from the pros is not a bad thing at all, however.  It is a manifestation of their desire to keep advancing, not content with what they already have, and recognizing their own limitations in skill or time to do it themselves.  I feel that you take it as far as you want to go and then maybe someday even further if the inspiration hits you again.  In the meantime, I will envy the beautiful layouts pictured here of all types, but never look at mine as inferior--just simply a work in progress.  One Lionel train person once told me that he never saw a layout that he didn't like.  I feel the same way but am constantly searching and looking forward which is why I spend my time in the hobby.  BTW, thanks for all the ideas and suggestions, fellows!

I have a different view from some.

Having built 3 O-gauge layouts thus far, small, medium and large, over the course of my life, I would gladly contract with professionals to build a future layout, if I could afford it. Having my dream layout done by people who can implement the dream far better than my abilities allow would far surpass the satisfaction I get after building a layout. The fact is, I don't have the abilities/skills to build a layout to my dream specifications. Even if I did acquire those skills (e.g., building realistic mountains and forests), at the pace I work it would take me 20 years working full-time.

The Vargas brothers come to mind as pros who do outstanding work. I would be there every step of the way, making sure my vision is implemented, and at the same time I would be utilizing their talent and vision to augment and add to mine. I can honestly say, after being in the workforce now for 30+ years, the best designs and "neatest" projects are those that had collaboration and team input. A good and competent project manager is key. At the going rates pros charge however, this won't likely happen.

I will design and build  my own layout, I also like to do my own scenery .... but wiring    .... wish I could farm it out!

"Now why is this one Blinking!!!"

I think smaller layouts are more of a challenge. Given having the unlimited resources required to have a super enormous layout is a walk in the park by comparison and to me, is not much of an accomplishment if done by others. Fitting an interesting track configuration in a smaller footprint, adding buildings to that, making the illusion of distance come to life is more challenging...difficult and doing it successfully is quite a end product to have pride in. 

One of my best memories is building an 8x8 Lionel layout with my dad when I was little. It wasn't the most detailed layout but I loved it. I think the owner was right about a dad building a layout with his child.

For us adults, it all depends. Some don't like building and just want a layout. Each of us enjoys this hobby in our own way. I don't think it matters how they do it. Build it, buy it, work alone or with friends, just have fun. If you're having fun you're doing it right.

This is a timely subject for us. As we speak, we are creating a new layout primarily dedicated to the Christmas season. I just had a birthday last week and I am through building benchwork. I don't need to handle 2 by 4's or 4 by 8 sheets of plywood anymore. But that is where the professional help ends!

Elizabeth and I collaborated and did all of the design work up front and together. We will build the mountain range, do the wiring and all of the scenery work. This is a process that evolves. As you work on the layout, new ideas to make it better just pop up. You miss that when you contract for someone else to take your initial ideas and then just go with it. Most layout builders have their own style that is like a hand print for all layouts they build. As most of you have said, building your own layout adds a dimension of our hobby that you really miss otherwise and is one of the elements that is the most fun.

Whatever works. I have a TCA friend who was hired by an elderly gentleman to build a large island layout 12x25'. He offered to pay, and my friend declined the money (he is retired) as he enjoyed building him a large table top to get this guys trains going. I don't knock folks who have others build and pay$ for layouts whether they be elderly, handicap or healthy and wealthy, its still a free country.

Find it somewhat kind of sad to find people being judgmental/condescending to those that chose to have their layouts professionally constructed over building it themselves.

Some go the route of having it professionally built for a number of reasons including but not limited to:  

* Don't have the aptitude to do some of the legwork regarding layout construction, or wiring, or scenery, or any combination thereof,

* Lack adequate free time (other interests/projects/family obligations),

* Age and/or health,

Face it, do you think for example that Tony Lash's former enormous and impressive layout he had at his business would have ever been completed in his lifetime if he tried to do it himself?  He had a business to run, was already beyond middle age, and I'm sure he had other commitments in life to tend to.

"looking through the last couple of issues of Classic Toy Trains and OGR, I noticed almost all the wonderful fantastic super layouts were actually constructed by one of the "build your dream layout" 

actually they seem to have a good mix of both.

Working on the layout over 14 yrs wasn't work. in fact there were certain sections where I ran trains for a couple years before finishing. Needed time to imagine the scene I wanted. Never was in a hurry , and I never finished it either. It didnt matter

That layout was more typical of a club layout rather than one belonging to a private individual.  I refuse to put down anyone for having a layout made for him or her, that's a personal choice, it's their money and none of my business what they do with it.  But perhaps if Mr. Lash had built his own, more humble, layout he might still be in the hobby, might even still be working on it.

Pete