The best std gauge drivetrain? Williams Can? PSI? II?

This is one of the main benefits (in my opinion) for MTH's contemporary locomotives. With DCS you can run them at full power which allows them to crawl around the track without stalling. 

Original...

1) Ives Wide motors. These were made late and they run solidly, quietly and cool.

2) Flyer Wide gauge.

3) Ives 1134 steam motor. Ball bearing drive.

Repro....

1) Lionel SG 6coupled motors in Hudsons.  Double pittmans.  these are the most robust, smoothest drives out there.

2) Lionel Classics BAL motors.  These are really excellent traditional motors.

3) Williams double cans.  Simple, strong drivess.

A Proto 3 408E is a good choice for your needs!

@Rob English I'm not too familiar with standard gauge.  What are BAL motors?  Thanks!

Bild-a-loco - a Lionel term for a standard gauge motor that could be easily assembled or taken apart in the prewar period. 

Tinplate Art posted:

A Proto 3 408E is a good choice for your needs!

Thanks for the suggestion! I'm curious, why Proto 3 as opposed to 1 or 2? I don't really care about the sound-- preference is solely based on performance!

Rob English posted:

Original...

1) Ives Wide motors. These were made late and they run solidly, quietly and cool.

2) Flyer Wide gauge.

3) Ives 1122 steam motor. Ball bearing drive.

Repro....

1) Lionel SG 6coupled motors in Hudsons.  Double pittmans.  these are the most robust, smoothest drives out there.

2) Lionel Classics BAL motors.  These are really excellent traditional motors.

3) Williams double cans.  Simple, strong drivess.

Thanks for your response!

I'd agree with that list from my own experience-- my early AF wide gauge motor is indeed pretty sweet. I've got one Ives that I think suffers from an armature on its way out and old wiring; it's still astonishingly quiet even in present poor condition.

On the repros-- do all three pull well at quite slow speed? Can a traditional motor configuration be expected to do that at all?

Jazumwalt posted:

 

Thanks for your response!

I'd agree with that list from my own experience-- my early AF wide gauge motor is indeed pretty sweet. I've got one Ives that I think suffers from an armature on its way out and old wiring; it's still astonishingly quiet even in present poor condition.

On the repros-- do all three pull well at quite slow speed? Can a traditional motor configuration be expected to do that at all?

Yes they all 3 pull slow.  The surprising thing is how well the BAL motor does,  given that it is a brushed AC motor.

My only comment is I'd be careful mixing modern electronics with a type Z transformer.  They spike wildly and while the motors can handle that, modern reversing boards and sounds systems are not set up for it without some sort of surge protector. 

Ask me how I know?

Proto 3 engines have a capacitance circuit that requires NO battery!

The bal gearing gives it the pull. A can motor with that gearing.. The way to go now days.

That's my plan for my up coming Hudson build..

Rob English posted:

Original...

1) Ives Wide motors. These were made late and they run solidly, quietly and cool.

2) Flyer Wide gauge.

3) Ives 1122 steam motor. Ball bearing drive.

Repro....

1) Lionel SG 6coupled motors in Hudsons.  Double pittmans.  these are the most robust, smoothest drives out there.

2) Lionel Classics BAL motors.  These are really excellent traditional motors.

3) Williams double cans.  Simple, strong drivess.

Hi Rob,

The Ives 1122 is O gauge. Is this a typo, or is there another reason you included it?

George

Ack..  S/B 1134 of course.

Nothing beats a vintage Super Motor, or BAL motor. Unless you have a need to run newer stuff due to electronics.

Tin

Rob English posted:

Ack..  S/B 1134 of course.

I thought that might be what you meant. I had to look up the difference between the Ives wide gauge motor and the 1134. I have an MTH 1134, which runs great, but I really should get an original... I'll add it to the list. 

George

Just curious: Are the Lionel Classics and MTH Tinplate Traditions repro BAL motors as good or better than the originals? I have an LC 2-400E and a TT traditional 408E all with repro BAL motors and they pull great.

Rob English posted:

Jazumwalt posted:

 

Thanks for your response!

I'd agree with that list from my own experience-- my early AF wide gauge motor is indeed pretty sweet. I've got one Ives that I think suffers from an armature on its way out and old wiring; it's still astonishingly quiet even in present poor condition.

On the repros-- do all three pull well at quite slow speed? Can a traditional motor configuration be expected to do that at all?

Yes they all 3 pull slow.  The surprising thing is how well the BAL motor does,  given that it is a brushed AC motor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmODJpzaLQk - At about :44 into that video, I really see what you mean. It's impressive. 

Perhaps the best thing, given track power and a Z transformer. I just have to wonder how it makes around an occasional "42 inch curve at a speed like that... 

Jazumwalt posted:

Rob English posted:

Jazumwalt posted:

 

On the repros-- do all three pull well at quite slow speed? Can a traditional motor configuration be expected to do that at all?

Yes they all 3 pull slow.  The surprising thing is how well the BAL motor does,  given that it is a brushed AC motor.

 

 I just have to wonder how it makes around an occasional "42 inch curve at a speed like that... 

They will do it. However, it really depends on having good track connections and enough power feeds to distribute the power evenly. The engines were made for 42" curves.

George

Guess I'm in the market for a Lionel Classics edition 408E, in that case. I've read that the state cars from that era are particularly nice as well! 

The eerie smoothness of MTH electronics are still seductive, but I'm concerned about long term durability...

@Jazumwalt at :42 the loco appears to start the train very smoothly but based on the sound the wheels are slipping, so there's no way to know what speed the motors are turning.  One of the benefits of NOT having rubber tires!  Two spur gear motors can help each other, so even with 3-pole motors you end up with a respectable number of power pulses per inch.  And generally dual-motored locos do a respectable job of maintaining an even speed around the track.

I have a loose Bild-a-loco motor in my collection (i think it's a recent MTH repro.)  I recall that it's well-built and geared pretty low, or at least lower than Lionel's O gauge spur gear mechanisms.  Assuming the gear ratio on this repro is the same as the original, I can't understand why when the big "L" made the leap from Standard to O around 1938, everything was geared to run so fast!!  And, it would be nice to be able to drop the wheels out and remove one side of the chassis to replace the fiber collector plate, solder wires in there, etc.  I guess the swedged-together O-gauge motor chassis was considered progress?!?

I like the barrel armature. So you don't have to look at brush tubes between the wheels.

Mth uses the super motor.  Flat armature. Brush tubes between wheels.

The other is can motor fitted to use with build a loco gearing. Not a fan on how they set it up..

Have not run mine..its out of a mth 400e....new..wanted to see if it was original repro but has can motor. Think it's a 1999 production. 

New as never run..