the gold berkshire

Did you take a pic? I would like to see this. 

 

 

I presume your at York? Why not ask someone there, a Lionel Rep perhaps? Or you can always email at the usual location.

 

I highly doubt anyone here knows.

 

IMO those gold locos are a bad idea anyway. They always resell for substantially less than one prototypically painted, and their too gawdy to run.

RickO, according to this thread

https://ogrforum.com/t...m-presentation-today 

from yesterday's TCA mtg. in Lancaster, it's painted.

I will post a photo of the engine when I get back from York. It is gold paint, definitely not shinny, and it does  match the matching gold passenger cars.

 

Two Forum members I spoke to tonight are the OGR Forum event not happy with it at all.

Well, the catalog description said "gold-finished" versus "gold-plated" on the previous gold releases. That's a pretty good indication that's its not actual gold. If it was actual gold it would likely say plated in 10K or something to that ilk as this is a feature you want to promote. Otherwise its kinda like a "genuine Diamelle/Diamonique" ring ...looks like it but no cigar.

 

Peter

 

I seen it today as well.  You could barely read the Polar Express on the tender.  Lots of nice items on display, but the Gold Berkshire didn't yell out Buy me....

 

Jim

Although I did not order the gold Berkshire I expected when it was announced it would be plated just like the other engines that had it. I was asked by a couple of friends to look at it and report back. 

 

I think lionel is going to loose quite of few orders if these berkshires are painted gold and not plated

 

Several others who ordered it will cancel their pre order after seeing it today

It is about what I expected, not what I wanted. The color is a gold finish, not plated. Looks like a high quality paint, but still paint. 

Seriously, Lionel, gold paint rather than gold plate? Are Lionel's costs for painting items gold really that much more than painting them black, or any otherr colors, to justify your higher MSRP for the gold edition locomotive and cars vs. the ordinary black version? Major paint manufacturers price their gold spray paint (metallic too) the same as other colors, so why the difference in cost from the folks at Lionel? Don't know what to label this practice by Lionel so I'll leave that up to other posters.

 

 

BTW model railroaders, Lionel isn't a nonprofit corporation but rather a profit making entity whose executives' are charged with keeping Lionel's bottom line from bleeding red at the end of each quarter and as quite a few other businesses do, will take what they feel are the necessary steps to keep that from happening.. 

I think this will largely be a personal decision.  Some folks will be drawn to the satin gold paint finish vs. gold-plating.  Others will prefer gold plating.   Unfortunately, it's quite likely there will be no middle ground.  

 

I don't have a horse in this race, because I didn't pre-order one -- nor do I plan to purchase one after they are shipped to dealers.  But I will say this... I actually LIKED the satin finish of the gold paint.  Hard to say if I like it MORE than gold-plating though. Rather it's just a different look vs. gold-plating, the option Lionel used on their 100th Anniversary Hudson (which I own).  

 

Both styles appeal to my eye.  HOWEVER, what didn't appeal to my eye was the color of the Polar Express lettering and 1225 road number on the locomotive.  I can understand that Lionel chose the blue graphics to match the PE blue in the overall Polar Express and Polar Railroad color schemes.  Unfortunately, this shade of blue looks TERRIBLE on the gold paint background.  It's one of those color combinations that's just a plain no-no, and never should have passed review prior to a production sample being shipped to Lionel.  It's that bad.   

 

When I was up close, the blue-on-gold almost hurt my eyes to look at it.  My eyes could see there was something written on the gold paint, but my brain couldn't really decipher the lettering or road number. There's just no crispness or "pop" to that blue-on-gold color mix.  

 

And when I was more than 4 feet away, I could barely see anything -- aside from the fact there was a gold locomotive on display.  Just very disappointing That such a basic mismatch of colors would make its way into production. 

 

Had I pre-ordered this locomotive, I would definitely have no problem whatsoever canceling my order if the production units will look like the sample displayed at York.  I'm gonna guess that black lettering would show up much, much nicer.  And if that's the case, Lionel should make the spec change IMMEDIATELY.  Otherwise, this thing is gonna be a dust collector on dealer shelves.  I wouldn't pay $200 for it, not to mention $1K or the $1500 MSRP.

 

I guess this also raises the whole issue that most folks would rather ignore... namely, this is precisely the nightmare we run into when BTO products don't make the cut.  If we don't pre-order something, we risk not having it available.  But if we pre-order based solely on a catalog image (where the image may be an illustration, or a very well lit product photograph in a studio environment), we risk the final product not being quite as it may have appeared in the catalog.

 

It's just not the kind of thing Lionel want to have happen during the roll-out of one of its first BTO products. 

 

David

 

 

Of course not, Grampstrains, but does the difference in price (if any) that Lionel pays for gold paint vs. any other colors it uses for it's engines justify a $50.00 differential in MSRP? I don't recall them ever charging more for the exact same engine irregardless whether it was painted standard black or painted in any other color scheme of the raillines it represents, have you?

Besides, when the prototype used gold on their locomotives...

 

...they didn't gold-plate them.

 

Rusty

It is a shame that many who were excited about this locomotive are now disappointed.  I did not realize Lionel were putting blue lettering on a gold locomotive.  As I continued to read your post, I thought why not black then I read that you came up with the same.  PE blue on gold would seem a little harsh on the eyes, as you mentioned.

You be the judge.

I like it. I don't think it looks bad at all. Thanks for the picture Marty.

Thanks for posting those photos, Marty.  Even at that distance, we can see how difficult it is to see the blue lettering and road number.  Step back a few more feet, and forgettabouddit...  The blue lettering practically vanishes.  

 

It's a glaring error, but easily fixed with the proper color combo.

 

David

Egads!  

Hi Marty,

What is up with the deck on the PE observation car?  It looks like it missing?  Are they altering it to look more like the movie?

thanks

>>It is a shame that many who were excited about this locomotive are now disappointed.<<

 

Traditionally, according to Emily Post, the iconic etiquette guru, a 10 year anniversary for that Polar Express engine, LOL, it deserved nothing better then to be made out of tin.

Looks like Lionel marketing pulled a fast one on its fans..  

Joe

The pics look like a brass model.

 

Kind of hard to believe that the gold one is getting all the attention, albeit much of it negative - I never related to gold steam locomtives. What about the real PE - the black one with PE pilot? Was it even displayed? How does it look? Do either one of the Berks have sound clips from the movie? Is the whistle the awesome one from the movie?

Undecorated brass was the look I got from the finish as well. I also think the black drivers/silver rods was a miss. The drivers need to be gold or chrome, or the rods need to be done in gold. 

I heard at least one order cancellation go down in the halls yesterday while I was talking to my usual dealer. 

 

The black version looked quite nice. It was on the display wall. If it was on the layout at any point, I didn't see it.

I just looked at my Lionel Christmas catalog. It states "special gold painted finish. The pics above look like the catalog picture of the gold finish to me. The blue lettering appears lighter than the catalog rendition - that may be something they can rectify in the production run.

The only Gold engine I wanted as a kid, plated, painted or plated and clear-coated, (did not matter) was the Ives B&O Prosperity Special in Standard Gauge!

Just gorgeous. It hurt your eyes to look at as it went around the Christmas tree reflecting  off all the lights... I only was able to run one as a kid...Of course we could never afford it... but WOW!

 

 

What I gather from the "notch 6" podcast about the vol 2 catalog the sounds would be the same as in the last scale polar express release. The whistle ( as well as the rest of the loco sounds) from the movie as well as on the Lionel scale PE/PM berkshire were all taken directly from the real PM 1225.

 

( Not my video)It will likely sound like this, the Tom Hanks/conductor audio is part of the legacy sound set of the loco:

 

 

 

Does anyone have a pic of the revised pilot?  I would love to see a pic.

No picture, but it's very much like the image in the catalog.  Very pronounced, compared to the former release a few years back.  I like it, and I have the black berk on order.

 

David

I think gold-plated/painted anything skirts a fine line between looking great and looking like brass (cheap and tacky).  And people have strong preferences either way. 

 

I'd really need to see it in person to form a final opinion, but I think it looks good.  It actually matches the look of the gold ticket you see on the PE artwork really closely.  Which it wouldn't have if it was plated and shiny.  I'm just not a fan of brass so I think the satin finish actually looks pretty good on this.

 

But TOTALLY agree with the blue lettering, however.  How this ever was agreed upon is beyond me.  I am not familiar with the way licensing works but maybe Warner Brothers forced the color scheme on Lionel?

I was there, saw it with my own eyes and then asked a Lionel rep about the color.  I got a long explanation about how the catalog was very specific about it NOT being gold plated. I for one am cancelling my pre-order if I can.  It is a horrible, dull gold-ish color.  It almost has a green tint.

 

The 2013 Christmas catalog describes it as "brilliant finish".  It doesn't say plated but boy did I read it as such:

 

"Not since Lionel's 100th Anniversary have we given such special treatment to an engine!.....this locomotive is decorated in brilliant gold finish" 

 

I have the gold Hudson and this looks NOTHING like it and the finish is certainly not "brilliant gold finish".  If anything, it is a dull "gold-ish" color.  The passenger cars are also painted the same color.

 

I am very disappointed but I guess shame on me for assuming.

These are nice pics but the finish is not nearly as "brilliant" as these pictures show.  It is much duller in person.  I agree with the points above that it did not say plated but it did say "brilliant" and it is anything but.  

I don't understand Lionels "thinking" sometimes. Some locos are great and some they just completely "drop the ball" on.

 

The s2 turbine comes to mind, a cast in coal load and " ho- hum rehashed" sounds, it could have been great. On the other hand the MR s3 was a homerun in every respect and at a great price to boot.

 

It seems extra time is spend on some locos, and others are pushed out the door.

 

Especially with the whole BTO concept, " make it great" so we don't have to fear ordering something sight unseen.

I'm not there to see it but I like it in the pic.

This thing is all wrong. I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the blue lettering especially. It hurts to look at it. The black diaphragms, trucks, and drive wheels absolutely kill it.

 

I do not have this engine on BTO; however, it's just hideous. It looks "cheap".

I hated it in the catalog. It had the blue letters there too. In the pictures Marty posted, I think it looks awesome. My LHS had the gold Hudson, I find that ugly. Too each their own. If I had the cash, I would get this before the Hudson, but before either of those would be the black version of the polar

For a point of comparison, here are some pics of my Lionel Gold Hudson out on display.  Normally it's protected by plexiglass, which I removed for the photos.  These items were produced in 2000 with shiny "gold plating".  Note the BLACK lettering and how it stands out so well even with the shiny gold finish and somewhat soft focus quality of my iPhone.

 

First up, the locomotive, tender and caboose...

 

 

Now just the locomotive and tender...  No problem reading the road-number under the cab windows or the lettering on the tender.

 

 

Lastly, here is a close-up of the tender and cab-area of the locomotive -- highlighting some rivet detail and the crispness of the black lettering on the shiny gold plating.

 

 

Again, as I said earlier... I have the black PE Berk pre-ordered -- not the gold one.  I just hope Lionel improves its current gold version by using black lettering for those who pre-ordered a gold PE Berk.  Whether you like the satin gold paint or not, there's no way anybody can be that thrilled with the horrible blue-on-gold paint scheme.  Just compare the two locomotives.  The difference between black-on-gold vs. blue-on-gold is pretty obvious. 

 

David

 

P.S.  On a related note, I do prefer the platinum silver trim on the Gold Hudson (i.e., note the steam chest as well as the trucks underneath the cab area and on the tender).  Just breaks the solid gold look -- whether gold-plated or satin gold paint.  But for me, that's not the real deal-breaker here.  The gold Berk's blue-on-gold lettering is what really needs some serious damage control ASAP, if this locomotive has a prayer of making its way into the hands of "happy consumers". 

 

I could live without the gold plating as sometimes it might just appoear a bit too gaudy for my taste but the gold finish paint with that P.E. blue lettering -- on the gold finish, oh my gawd, whatever were the folks at Lionel thinking? Talk about difficult to make out let alone clearly read at five feet or more, that's an understatement! What a botched opportunity and likely doesn't forbode well for customers scrambling to preorder future Lionel "gold" releases. 

And yes, while catalogue didn't specifically say gold plated but rather gold finish, Lionel could have been more specific saying it was gold painted. Or did they figure mentioning that it was merely gold painted have been a turn-off to many adversely affecting its pre-order sales order numbers? On the cusp of deceptive advertising? You be the judge of that for yourself. 

since I missed the gold locomotives made around 2000 I thought this was my chance to get a new gold engine. From the pictures it does not look like this is what I was hoping for.  I think I'll cancel, at least unill I get a better look at it.

 

Not that it makes much difference , but the greenish cast was a result of the lighting it was shown under. Gold color like that will show the reflected colors

Marty's pic makes it look better than it did in person. The gold is probably close to the same gold as a gold iPhone. Not like the gold plated engine I saw at York or David's Hudson  if you think you are getting a new gold plated Hudson you will be disappointed

Did anyone confirm that this is the true finish and not a mock up?