The MPC years

Imagine, toys that were decorated for hard liquor, beer and cigarettes, try to find those now in today's PC world.

I have all 9 of the Tobacco Railroad series. For sure, we'll never see that re-run! Key cars for my "Train of Sin".

 

Here's a few of them.... 

 

Gilly

I didn't own any G's, but using this transformer,

 

 

 

 

and running dual motored diesels and postwar engines pulling 60 MPC cars and never exceeded the output of this transformer. I bought this in 1981 because they advertised better control over standard transformer and use today for switch power and lights. I think you had a problem with your G if it was pulling 8 amps

 

Bill

The MPC era is my favorite!

Who cares if it meets "modern standards"?  Neither do prewar or postwar, and they have a pretty decent following to say the least.  And I'm willing to bet that collectors/operators of prewar, postwar and MPC couldn't care less about "modern standards".  I know I couldn't.  Apples and oranges.

Why some of you feel the need to constantly trash others' choices is beyond me.  No wonder there's a negative stereotype of this hobby...

You could say that every era had its problems if you want to criticize.  Prewar had some die castings that fall apart.  Postwar decoration was often sloppy.  MPC couplers aren't the most reliable.  Contemporary?  Well, all you have to do is read these forum threads to see problems with electronics and quality control, to name two.

 

But as one poster said, at least MPC kept the brand alive during a difficult period.  And produced a great variety of colorful cars.  And brought out fast-angle wheels, which coupled with the lighter weight of the freight cars, enabled very long trains.

 

That's enough for me to refrain from calling MPC 'junk'.

I grew up during the MPC era, and I still love the variety and decoration.  However some of the criticism is deserved.  Are there ANY MPC steam locos that run better than their postwar counterparts??

 

MPC had three chances to redesign the 2034-100 four wheel motor/chassis introduced in 1952.  The initial 1970 redesign, the 1972 upgrades, and the 1984 conversion to a can motor.  IMO none of them run as well as the original.  (The can-motored version starts smoothly, but unless you're pulling a load, the speed varies a LOT from curved to straight track.  And IMO the can-motored locos just lack the sense of gravitas, or momentum that the AC Pullmor motors had.)

 

The original 6-wheel motor/chassis used on the 8206 and 8603 was wobbly.  The revised one used in the Crescent reportedly had armature bearing issues, and all of these Hudsons had nylon gears.  The first few Berkshires had gear mesh issues.  The 783 also had motor bearing issues.  Are there any real success stories that I don't know about?

 

BTW, any GG1 drawing 9 amps needs servicing.  Maybe magnetraction magnets dragging on the wheels?  (another common problem from the MPC era .)  Sure I have fond memories, but I would love to bring the operating characteristics closer to what we've come to expect today, or at least equal to the best Postwar stuff.  

Joe, what 9700 cars are you missing? Don

Not sure mine are MPC but I have 3 old trains.

1- Bought for my kids - Rock Island engine 8601. Don't remember but it was  the        early 80's

2-  My dad in 1985-86 bought a Walbash engine  8604

3- A few months ago I bought a L&N 1970 Engine and tender. I think they were made in 1986

I realize these items are not collectables but to me the first 2 are PRICELESS

 

Brent

I would say that all the different eras of O gauge trains had issued "junk" in one form or another.  I certainly wouldn't say that some of the cars & locomotives from the last decade of the postwar period were exactly stellar for example.  But certainly not all of it was junk.

 

I think that's one thing some people seem to overlook actually.  Some regard the MPC/Fundemensions era as cheap, underpowered plastic trains with plastic gears in drivetrains.  While certainly there were trains that were constructed in such a fashion, MPC/Fundemensions was hardly the originator of that; you certainly saw that happening already during the autumn years of the postwar period.

 

As for me, I grew up during the MPC/Fundemensions era and had a train set from that era.  Plastic locomotive.  Forward and reverse only, no neutral.  Awful sounding "coffee-beans-in-a-can" Sound of Steam tender.  Some of the rolling stock had plastic wheels, the Chessie O-27 4-bay hopper and the small blue Republican Steel flatcar were part of them, and those cars were in fact so lightweight that they derailed easily.   One of my uncles had an early 1960s Texas Special Alco FA set.  The quality of that set was not much better.  Single-motor Alco, even with the disk weight on the rear power truck, was a very poor puller, and no reverse or neutral. 

 

But in spite of all that, they were certainly better quality than some of the RTR "Tyco" and similar HO trains of the time.  Those two O gauge sets got me started in O gauge, and inspired me to long for the higher end trains, and to save up money to buy them.  And even though I have neither of those sets anymore and that I prefer modern-era scale trains, I acknowledge that they played a significant role in me being involved in this hobby.

Funny thing, as a kid in the late 60s and early 70s I scorned MPC. To me it was not real Lionel in an orange box nor was it space and military. Four decades later I have become very fond of MPC. I like there F3s and reissues of postwar trains with better decoration. To me I now see MPC as an extension of postwar, a very close first cousin.

All the best,

Miketg

I have a weak spot for MPC era engines and cars, although I've been trying to wean myself away from the engines. Even though newer stuff has much more sophistication, there is just something about MPC equipment that screams Lionel to me.

My experience with too many of the power / dummy engine MPC sets is that the single motor in the powered unit simply isn't enough to pull the dummy and what I would consider a moderate length 9 car train.  I've resolved this issue with a few of my MPC era sets by purchasing inexpensive powered MPC GP9's and placing the dummy shell onto the powered GP9 frame.  The basic black N&W GP9's work very well for this purpose since they are so ugly (err, I mean graphically challenged) and can typically be purchased pretty  inexpensively.

Curt

>>>Why some of you feel the need to constantly trash others' choices is beyond me.  No wonder there's a negative stereotype of this hobby...<<

 

If you're refering to me trashing it, you're dead wrong.

 

quote:

I suppose if you're comfortable using a 70's era car that gets 8MPG as your daily driver rather then a newer model that can get upwards of 40, it wouldn't make sense to you why a MPC era GG1 that eats 9 amps is different then a newer model that uses less then 2.  Let alone the safety issues those older models create.  

 

I don't think you can draw a valid comparison between an automobile and a toy train.

 The cost per mile difference certainly is dramatic when comparing a vehicle that gets eight miles to a gallon to one that gets upwards of forty.

You'd have to run an awful lot of trains for a very long time to accumuate an appreciable difference in electricity costs.

 

And Toy trains, while not idiot proof, are certainly safe so long as directions are followed and a tiny bit of common sense is used. 

 

IMHO, its fine to prefer the recently made stuff, but you cannot justify it by saying the older stuff is too expensive to operate or is unsafe.

What I think some of you don't know is MPC (General Mills) saved three rail trains. If you look at Lionel's catalogs before MPC you would see it was painfully obvious Lionel was on it's last legs. The only players were Walthers kits and a few other very small companies. Without Lionel all would have soon died. General Mills realized those kids from the 50's were growing up and wanted the trains they never had as kids. It was perfect timing. Suddenly we had all those things we wanted at a very fair price plus fast angle wheels and a few new type engines and cars. You could buy 9700 box cars for around $6 and GP-9s for under $30 if you shopped around. 

In my opinion there wouldn't have been MTH, Atlas O, K-line, Weaver, Williams or much new O gauge three rail. We would still be buying old Lionel at high prices. 

Don

I came late to the MPC party but now have a number of the Limited Edition Sets and some of the Service Station Sets.

 

Thoroughly enjoy them.

Getting back to the passage of time though... I find it quite amazing that the MPC era is already 30-40 years ago now... which "seems" further back in time than most of us viewed Lionel's peak post-war heyday years of the 1950's when we were kids in the 1960's.  Back in the 1960's, Lionel's peak post-war years were just 10-15 years old.  Funny how the passage of time can play that game on us.

 

This is why I find the continual focus on Post War in magazines like CTT somewhat dangerous to their own health.  They are playing to an aging demographic while ignoring a vibrant and exciting era of later production.

 

To put it in perspective, I was five when the Post War era ended in 1969.  That makes me 50 this year!

 

Jon

"But in spite of all that, they were certainly better quality than some of the RTR Tyco and similar HO trains of the time."

 

This! I was born in 1973. My 8654 Boston & Maine GP9 wowed my friends and was my most prized possession from age 5 until I bought a Chrysler Imperial at 17. Neither is "up to modern standards" but if you find that a problem, maybe skip this thread?

 

The '76, '80 and '83 catalogs had many of my all-time favorites. I especially like U-boats and bright graphics, like those of CP Rail and Chessie System. Incidentally, my old GP now rides an LTI chassis for more power. I wish there was a better 12-wheel chassis that would swap under my D&H U36C.

Don,

 

I still need the following cars. I keep my eyes open at shows and auctions. When a good deal comes along I add another to the collection. I figure I'll get them all eventually.

 

9701

9702

9703

9706

9712

9713

9718

9719

9729

9730

9732

9734

9738

9739

9743

9754

9758

9762

9772

9775

9776

9778

9780

9783

I have always enjoyed the MPC line or years.  I have all nine

Booze Cars.  Beautiful cars, they look great behind a Lionel or

Williams Berk.  I have the Mid-Atlantic Set from 1979 or 80 with

Old Josh on the side of the Box Car/Golden Years.

 

MPC in my opinion kept The Lionel name alive with some great

looking trains.  Good Topic.

 

Many thanks,

 

Billy C 

funny this came up - I just found myself pulling out a lot of my MPC stuff from under the board in the last few weeks.  I even bought a few cars.   I love a lot of the MPC era trains. I know they get a bad rap, but I find them colorful, easy to maintain & easy on the wallet   I never had a problem w/ any of the 70's stuff, even though a lot of the early - mid postwar quality isn't there. I even have a list of a few other things I'd love to add to my MPC collection

I have always been a fan of the Southern Mikado 8309 and the NKP 8215.

 

I also like the Union Pacific F3's.

Thanks Don.

While I may have a couple of the very latest production with command control and sound, I still enjoy to operate these SD18's that have brought 35+ years of joy:

 

 

While the SD18's share the integrated motor/truck design from the Postwar 200 series Alco's, the motor truck is cast metal so it retains its proportions and does not loosen up and shift like the Postwar Alco's built up stamped sheet metal motor truck. The SD18's are also quite powerful as the powered unit easily pulls its dummy and 20+ scale cars.

 

This great looking FM H24-66 Trainmaster still sees plenty of action as well.

 

 

Both units have brought decades worth of dedicated service. While MPC had its problems, they also had their share of great long lasting products.

Always one of my favorite MPC box cars. Love the shade of blue with the white lettering.

 

Part of the 1978 Service Station Set.

 

 

 

NJCJOE-

I have a 9783 with box if you're interested.  Let me know...

Thanks Mike. 

 

My email is in my profile. Let me know what you're looking to get for it.

I really like the MPC Standard 0 box cars especially they way the are painted,

I also converted some MPC engines to magnatraction by simply replacing the trucks

with post war trucks. My last conversion was a MPC Virginian electric that runs as well as it's post war counterpart at a fraction of the cost.

I started buying my own trains during the MPC era. Does anybody remember when Lionel moved all of their production lines to Mexico. I do remember that it was in 1982. I know at the time I was purchasing almost everything from M.B. Klein's when they were still in downtown Baltimore.

 

I remember a big delay in their production of trains. And being told that the US employees trashed a lot things needed for the production of trains as it was being loaded up in all of the tractor trailers needed to move everything it to Mexico. 

 

 

I also believe that it was right around this time that I stopped buying a lot of trains. But I did hold onto some of my MPC line that I liked like the Blue Comet, Disney, Spirit of 76, Chessie Steam Special, The General with extra pass. cars, & Rock Island General w/3 extra pass. cars, and Budd Sets. And I still some of the GG-1s, FM's, Penna. & N&W aluminum pass. cars. I did sell off some engines the N&W J-1 & SP daylight after I bought the scale ones.

 

I have been happy with all of my MPC trains. Remember back than we had very little to choose from and we had no idea what the future would be like.

 

 

 

Jerry

 

Workhorse 8352 w/ 8355 dummy & consist on the 2012 Christmas layout:

 

I loved all of it.

I love them all too Jim and for the most part I love the class of people I meet in the Hobby. Remember when I posted the thread about losing my copy of OGR when taking Dad to the VA? I'll never forget who stepped up and offered to replace it.

The Morning Hiawatha with PS2 is still a fine train and hopefully will continue to have a place on our Christmas display.

Great video Rob.

Jerry always love checking out the Southern Crescent videos. But you do know if my Milwaukee Special and your Southern Crescent got in fight the Milwaukee Special would win, right?

 

 

As far as MPC trains being designated shelve queens I'd have to disagree. Disconnect the tether on a PS2 Steamer and a MPC Mighty Sound of Steam and see which one is dead on the track. 20 years from now which one is more likely to be sitting on the shelve because its software is no longer supported or there are no parts available?

All the modern features are great including the fine details. I do enjoy the few new trains I've purchased in recent years. I have even learned through this forum to make several repairs. But I'm not so sure they will stand the test of 50 years time the MPC era has. Until the Government starts sending out energy storm troopers I'm not gonna worry about energy consumption of older trains. If the planet can't survive without me disconnecting my old O Gauge who would want to live in that world anyway? And if someone is really concerned about miles per kilowatt hour what the heck are they doing in the O guage hobby?

 

 

 

>>>As far as MPC trains being designated shelve queens I'd have to disagree. Disconnect the tether on a PS2 Steamer and a MPC Mighty Sound of Steam and see which one is dead on the track<<

 

Clueless statement.. In our modern throwaway world here's something that may surprise you...

There really is a few different ways to enjoy this hobby.

Some folks really do enjoy collecting, preserving and displaying more then operating...   

Joe

 

 

Matthew, I haven't really looked at the Milwaukee Special, it might be something I'd like, just what I need, another thing on my list of trains to get.

Our hobby isn't a throw away world. We tend to keep and refurbish, reuse or scavenge everything we can get and if it becomes totally unusable it usually gets stripped down for parts to keep others of its kind operational.

 

Jerry 

I just picked up an 8071 Virginian SD18 last night

 

Here are a few MPC items I picked up in the last few weeks  - 

 

9186 Conrail Caboose - 

 

8859 Conrail E33 - 

 

 

8569 Soo Line NW2. Added a headlight & cab light to this one - 

 

8761 GT NW2 - 

here are my MPC PRR F3s pulling the Broadway Limited cars from 74

Really?  "Safety 'issues?'"  Thank you, sir, for alerting me to the horrible dangers posed by my postwar and MPC trains!  Each and every one of them is obviously a rolling time bomb, putting my life on the line every time I power it up!

 

The MPC era offers some great deals, not to mention liveries.

Of the 70's single motored Geeps, this MoPac GP-20 is one of my

favorites.  Speaking of these Geeps, a key to running them is to match them with MPC rolling stock.