The MPC years

I have that SP Daylight 3 unit Alco set pictured above. It was a premium set when it came out with die cast trucks and a 3 position e unit. I paid $150 on eBay for it as I remember like new. Runs good but with one motor, pulling 2 dummies it can only pull a few cars.

I also have the SP Daylight GS Northern 4410 also, above bought at a TTOS  auction for $365 back when it was new and that was a real good deal back then. You can get it for half that now on eBay. Mine runs real good, looks like new, and the SOS sounds great.

I still have the following MPC items on my roster:

IC F3 ABA passenger set. I added TMCC / Rail Sounds to the F3's and put the B unit shell on a Lionel Powered B unit with TMCC. I also added the K Line IC RPO car to the set.

Chicago and North Western FM Train master

Bay Window caboose:

Chicago and North Western

Erie

Seaboard

Reefers:

REA wood side

NYC Early Bird wood side

Boxcar

Rutland

Hopper

Pennsylvania Power and Light

That is all that is left of my MPC empire. and as mentioned above, if not for MPC assuming production of Lionel trains in 1970 I would not have remained in the hobby.

Richard Gonzales

A couple of years ago I purchased a lot of MPC that I simply could not afford it in the late 70's and 80's. I always liked the standard O rolling stock, the Rio Grande service station set, the Southern Crescent set, and the Norfolk and Western Passenger set with the J.  They still look good and operate well to this day. I also purchased a Virginian  e33 which I added a postwar armature to and postwar power trucks, resulting in much better performance and magnatraction. I still enjoy todays high tech trains but cant part with my postwar and MPC.

The 92/94/9700 boxcars were great!  And lots of roadnames!  (A few of the 9700's were actually the old Lionel cattle cars!

Richard Gonzales posted:

I still have the following MPC items on my roster:

IC F3 ABA passenger set. I added TMCC / Rail Sounds to the F3's and put the B unit shell on a Lionel Powered B unit with TMCC.

Richard Gonzales 

Richard, I have that set as well. I modified the engines by swapping shells and chassis with a Lionel F-3 set that had TMCC and RailSounds, etc. I also swapped interiors on the cars using another Lionel aluminum car set that had interiors and figures - it really looks nice now.

I was wondering what powered TMCC B unit chassis you used. I know Lionel did powered "traditional" F-3 B units for Santa Fe (with silver trucks, of course), but don't recall what others they made.

I really like this set of MPC baby Madison cars from 1973-74, small enough to get around O27 curves if need be.

I always wanted to collect a series of box cars or wood side reefers and I did with the 5700 series.
It seemed that every year I would be on the look out for new cars and set break ups to ad another number to my collection.  During this process I picked up several reefer if I liked that graphics. The reefers had sprung trucks in the beginning and the weathering looked cool. 
Did anyone else concentrate on collecting this series?

Did anyone else concentrate on collecting this series?

I have the first group of 8, with the sprung trucks and weathering.

Breezinup,

Yes I used the IC B unit shell on a Lionel traditional Santa Fe powered B unit chassis. I painted the frame and trucks satain black. The color matched the IC AA frames perfectly. I also had metal gears installed in the IC powered A unit.

 The horn in the original IC B unit died years ago. The B unit frame / trucks ended up on a Frisco ABA set I built on a Lionel PW 2343 AA set. I used the same black satain paint on the sliver Santa Fe frames.

 I picked up another Santa Fe powered B unit, had a custom Western Pacific B unit shell painted and added it to my Lionel PWC Western Pacific set.

Richard 

Ace posted:

I really like this set of MPC baby Madison cars from 1973-74, small enough to get around O27 curves if need be.

Are those the 9500 PRR BROADWAY LTD. cars?

Johnsgg1 posted:

Originally Posted by ed h:

Originally Posted by Johnsgg1:

 added a Lionel electronic reverse unit to the New Englander plastic bodied 2-6-4 K4 type steamer.

 

 

Johnsgg1 - Were you able to fit the electronic reverse unit in the loco itself ?

I have an 8001 Plastic K4 that I would like to do this with.

 

 

Ed, yes, it fits neatly between the motor and the smoke unit.  Shield it from any metal components.

ed,i have the same engine,,,by adding the electronic reverse,,,does I now run on ac ? 

MPC is the stuff I grew up on.   One of my favorites is the  O-27 Broadway limited.  I wanted to make it a better runner, so I bought a current 2-4-2 an took the motor and electronics out and transplanted them. (It was a nascar engine)  I had to use the original chassis as the donor engine gearing was just too sloppy. 

As far as a collections, I eventually found all of the Favorite Spirits series reefers.  I still get them out on occasion. 

ed h posted:

Two more photos from Carail:

 

 

can you name those sets especally the one with the white nw2 switcher

Wow Ed,

Sone of those trains on your shelves are over 40 years old!

I guess MPC  stuff really is collectible. I believe autos are considered antiques at 25 years. It's hard to believe MPC trains are now just as old as Lionel pre war trains were when MPC resorected Lionel production in 1970.

Richard

Richard Gonzales posted:

Wow Ed,

Sone of those trains on your shelves are over 40 years old!

I guess MPC  stuff really is collectible. I believe autos are considered antiques at 25 years. It's hard to believe MPC trains are now just as old as Lionel pre war trains were when MPC resorected Lionel production in 1970.

Richard

For those into collecting and displaying toy trains, IMO, the MPC era (1970-1985) was something special.   Most of it was made with refurbished PW tooling & updated with colorful paint.  MPC era trains were uncomplicated, inexpensive & unique.   During those 15 years a lot was produced but much of it was made just once and probably won't be reissued again.    For collectors, after all these years, identifying & locating the scarce items in mint or L/N condition would probably be a challenge.   Good news? 40-50 years later its still not all that expensive.   Collecting anything today seems to have fallen out of favor.

Joe   

I view the MPC/General Mills era as a transitional period for Lionel. There were few innovations except for the fast angle wheels and much of the line was produced with the toy mentality that guided the company to keep the products simple, bare bones and affordable. The engines ran like old P/W Lionel and used the pullmore AC open frame motors. Box cars all used plastic sided trucks, the  cars became smooth sided (no rivet detail) and paint schemes (when they didn't just use the color from the plastic) were very very bright.  With the guidance of the late Lenny dean; eventually a collector line was introduced and this era saw the F3 family being re-introduced (without horns) and a few larger steam engines followed. I still run an MPC  NYC F3 on one loop of my layout today but it now sports a Williams true blast horn.  The add on electronic horn kits that were later sold had a very peculiar sound to them like the sound box on the original GG1. It was an exciting period for Lionel as the baby boomers at the time in the 20's and 30's now out of school, working, getting married and settling down, re-discovered and embraced the hobby of their childhood.  At the time there were over a dozen decent size train shows in NJ. Today the only large train shows in the area are the Greenberg and Allentown shows and you can still find loads of MPC trains there.  

Years ago I picked up two of the MPC era factory weathered reefers during a trip to a not so local hobby shop.  Going through the stacks of Lionel rolling stock they were in-expensive and I didn't have many reefers at the time. They were the 5700 Oppenheimer Casing and the 5702 National Dairy Despatch.  I don't remember if I even realized the were weathered until I got them home.  Later Ed Boyle did a Collector's Gallery on the series and the notion of trying to collect all eight of the factory weathered reefers began.  It took some time to really begin collecting them,  I kept running across the 5704 Budweiser reefer at train shows and the usually exorbitant price tag really curbed my the desire.  Eventually with the help Grzyboski's Trains and e-bay I completed my collection at reasonable prices.  I even have two of the 5704 Budweiser reefers.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Ace posted:

I really like this set of MPC baby Madison cars from 1973-74, small enough to get around O27 curves if need be.

Are those the 9500 PRR BROADWAY LTD. cars?

They are 9500 Milwaukee cars, 5 coaches and an obs. Very colorful. Lionel Lines isn't too particular about matching road names on cars and locos; it is some kind of lease deal or through running. Those locos are postwar.

These particular cars have cardboard liners inside to keep the interior lights from shining through the plastic roof. Some of the cardboard liners slipped down over the windows and I had a heck of a time opening the cars to fix that. I learned about pushing in certain windows to release the roof, but these particular cars also have latching plastic tabs underneath which I had to cut.

coach joe posted:

Years ago I picked up two of the MPC era factory weathered reefers during a trip to a not so local hobby shop.  Going through the stacks of Lionel rolling stock they were in-expensive and I didn't have many reefers at the time. They were the 5700 Oppenheimer Casing and the 5702 National Dairy Despatch.  I don't remember if I even realized the were weathered until I got them home.  Later Ed Boyle did a Collector's Gallery on the series and the notion of trying to collect all eight of the factory weathered reefers began.  It took some time to really begin collecting them,  I kept running across the 5704 Budweiser reefer at train shows and the usually exorbitant price tag really curbed my the desire.  Eventually with the help Grzyboski's Trains and e-bay I completed my collection at reasonable prices.  I even have two of the 5704 Budweiser reefers.

This was a great series, Collected all 8 plus the rest of the series. The others did not have the sprung trucks or weathered. They did have great graphics and some of them were made in Mexico then back in the states. The 5712 Lionel wood side reefer  and 5720 Great Norther wood side reefer were the hardest to find when they came out. Found the 5720 in a train shop in the mid west and got two. There were bunk cars and toll cars also in this series.
They are great dollar values.

coach joe posted:

Years ago I picked up two of the MPC era factory weathered reefers during a trip to a not so local hobby shop.  Going through the stacks of Lionel rolling stock they were in-expensive and I didn't have many reefers at the time. They were the 5700 Oppenheimer Casing and the 5702 National Dairy Despatch.  I don't remember if I even realized the were weathered until I got them home.  Later Ed Boyle did a Collector's Gallery on the series and the notion of trying to collect all eight of the factory weathered reefers began.  It took some time to really begin collecting them,  I kept running across the 5704 Budweiser reefer at train shows and the usually exorbitant price tag really curbed my the desire.  Eventually with the help Grzyboski's Trains and e-bay I completed my collection at reasonable prices.  I even have two of the 5704 Budweiser reefers.

I believe the greatest looking shelfqueens of that entire 15 year generation of Lionel are the painted steam passenger sets from the late 70's,.   The Southern,  Blue Comet, Alton, Chessie Steam and the Wabash are the most prized because they're downright beautiful and unique to MPC.   None  have been reproduced in their original form since.   If you add the UP Greyhound and GN Berk freight sets to the list you'll end up as the proud owner of the MPC wall of fame..

Joe

ed h posted:

I would really like to get my hands on those DT&I engines!

I've owned lots of "semi-scale" Pullmor-powered GG1s - PW, MPC, modern. When in good working order, with no load, they all pull 3-4 amps, which makes sense, since the fundamental design did not change over all those years. 9 amps is clear sign something is very wrong - the Pullmor is only rated for 2.5 amps so at 4.5 amps the motor would burn up relatively quickly.

As to MPC stuff in general? I only have two such models - an 8551 EP5 from 1976 and a Virginian Trainmaster from 1979. Relative to their PW equivalents, the MPC versions have better graphics but cheaper details - the EP5 has plastic gears and cast-in pantograph features and the TM does not have the bell. They run as fine as any of my postwar stuff however, and actually the EP5 is very smooth and quiet, which I think is because of the traction tires.

Christopher2035 posted:

funny this came up - I just found myself pulling out a lot of my MPC stuff from under the board in the last few weeks.  I even bought a few cars.   I love a lot of the MPC era trains. I know they get a bad rap, but I find them colorful, easy to maintain & easy on the wallet   I never had a problem w/ any of the 70's stuff, even though a lot of the early - mid postwar quality isn't there. I even have a list of a few other things I'd love to add to my MPC collection

I really enjoy your you tube videos of the MPC trains on an old layout.  It's one of the few videos available featuring Lionel MPC. Great Job! I encourage others to take a look at them.

paigetrain posted:

ed h posted:

Two more photos from Carail:

 

 

can you name those sets especally the one with the white nw2 switcher

Lots of great 1970s and 1980s Lionel in these photos.  Fairly certain the white switcher and cars were custom made items. In the second photo are the 5 FARR sets, the Empire State Express (1976), the TP&W Cross Country Express (1980) and partially shown under the TP&W set is the Reading Yard King Set from 1981.

Love the MPC stuff.

My collection of 9700 series boxcars and 9800 series reefers.

I have quite a few of the 9700 series boxcars, and 9800 series reefers, though I couldn't tell you how many right now.  I will have to look at my inventory listings on this computer to do so.  But, my point is, I like them due to their bright colors and the billboard lettering/graphics they make great billboard type consists.  I do know I can put together a good consist of billboards, including all manufacturers I have, over fifty cars total.  Really looks great !

Jesse   TCA

Ace posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Ace posted:

I really like this set of MPC baby Madison cars from 1973-74, small enough to get around O27 curves if need be.

Are those the 9500 PRR BROADWAY LTD. cars?

They are 9500 Milwaukee cars, 5 coaches and an obs. Very colorful. Lionel Lines isn't too particular about matching road names on cars and locos; it is some kind of lease deal or through running. Those locos are postwar.

These particular cars have cardboard liners inside to keep the interior lights from shining through the plastic roof. Some of the cardboard liners slipped down over the windows and I had a heck of a time opening the cars to fix that. I learned about pushing in certain windows to release the roof, but these particular cars also have latching plastic tabs underneath which I had to cut.

OK, I can see the cars are not Tuscan.  I did get the BL cars from a set break up.  Add a REA refer, the PW PRR operating box, a RMT PRR REA box pulled by a 675, Turgine, or GG1, one has a nice PRR train!  The PRR train came after the MILW set.

@C W Burfle posted:

Some early MPC rolling stock had Timken trucks with the fast angle wheels. I like to pick those up when I see them.

Like CW, I've been interested in the early MPC rolling stock with the Timken trucks and fast angle wheels and have collected them when I saw them at the hobby shop, at meets, or for sale online.  Those trucks were a carryover from the postwar period, albeit modified to accommodate the needlepoint axles and the "thumbtack"  style plunger (although the early ones used a thin rectangular metallic strip glued (badly) in place as opposed to actual friction-fit thumbtacks).  They also changed from the standard plastic used during the postwar era to the engineering, aka "Delrin"-type plastic since it works nicely with the needlepoint axle ends to reduce friction.  For some reason MPC also filled in the simulated cavities in the truck side frames, leaving essentially an "outline" of where the cavities used to be.  I can only speculate it was done to reinforce the side frames since the engineering plastic is more pliable than traditional plastic.

The modifications to the trucks did result in the overall details being not quite as crisp as postwar; perhaps it was due to impurities in the engineering plastic, compatibility issues with the plastic and the molds, the injection process itself, or a combination therein.  It also seemed to result in an opaque residue that tends to show up on the surface of the trucks, although I have noticed it's not present on all of those early trucks.  The residue can be wiped off but eventually it tends to show up again over time on the affected trucks.

I wish they fixed those issues with the Timken trucks instead of replacing them with those bizarre and completely obscure Symington-Wayne trucks that became the standard up until LTI changed it to more appropriate-looking 100 ton roller bearing trucks.

I like the beer cars. There are a lot of good deals on Mpc our there. Also like some standard o. Mpc is what I grew up with

In my opinion, Lionel MPC  did not start out too well.  However, by 1977 they really started to pick up the pace.  The large steam engines such as the 8003, 8006, 3100, 8215, 783, 784 are great engines.  Many of the parts used are Postwar Lionel .  The double motor F3's & double motor FM Units  such as the 8054, 8260, 8950, 8951 are excellent. They are not Postwar or Modern Era engines.  They are not meant to be.  They are a product of their time.

Charlie

https://www.trainz.com/pages/t...-large-steam-engines

i nearly bought a norfolk and western spirit of america set once

and now i kick myself

i also want the chessie grand national set too

i really do believe mpc stuff is gonna make up the bulk of my collection in the future