This is my first layout.

Just two thoughts:

1) Add a switching lead to both of the 4 track yards, so any switching moves do NOT have to go out onto the main line.

2) Add a second track into your big turntable, i.e. an "arrival track" and a "departure track".

I think your layout design has a good start. What would be helpful. Would be showing how the layout is accessed as far as a door if any.  Also where your aisles will be. It looks like a walk in at quick glance. But I don’t see a duck under or lift up.
Are the tracks up against a wall. Or is a true island that you can walk around the outside ?

Hot Water and Dave C, thank you for your suggestions. I will try to describe the layout a little better. The entry to the layout takes place using a hinged section lift up on the lower right hand portion of the side that has the angled section in the upper right hand corner. That section is open with no wall. The other three sides will be against a wall. I plan on having aisles wherever there is no track. My space is tight and I do not know how I could add a switching lead. I admit I am very much an amateur at this, I can use all of the help that I can get. The approximate area that I have to work with is 22' X 20". 22' on the back wall opposite the angled wall and entry. 20' on the perpendicular walls.

Gerard,

I’d connect the lower right whisker to the TT lead. You just need a place for an engine to wait until the TT is clear.

As far as switching leads, I do know if this is what Hot Water has in mind, but I’d at least extend the leads so you can move more than a couple of cars.

Double DAZ, Thank you, I think I can make your suggestions work. After I have completed the changes I will post the new layout and see what all of you think?

Thank you

Double DAZ here is the revised layout

Mind if I ask what software you are using?

RailModeller Pro for Mac

I guess we’ll have to see what Hot Water has to say to know if I understood his point. As far as the TT goes, do you plan to add things like coaling and water towers for steamers? Those things might change the configuration a bit.

Thanks, I thought it might be RMP, just not that familiar with the display.

Yes, I do plan on adding those items. I may have to rearrange things to accommodate?

Yes, depending on the footprint of the items you want to add. One reason for multiple leads to a TT is so a steamer can stop for coal/water on the way out while others can still use the TT. But, obviously, they aren’t needed to actually run model trains. So, it depends on how realistic you want your scenes to look. Here’s an example I found via Google that is similar to your design.

Nice plan!

Peter

I would make access to the turntable from the peninsula making the peninsula a standalone/independent operating area.  A arrival/departure track(s) (A/D) with runaround will let up build and breakdown trains.  Other supporting tracks include a caboose track, rip track, and less-than-car-load (LCL) freight house.

Jan

https://www.google.com/url?sa=...BAvzK7T7N2y5CahlR33t

Guys...keep the discussion on track.  If you want to discuss your professional / military life, then please do so via messenger and / or profile email.  Thanks.

Gerard,

Added a second reverse loop using a Ross 3-way.  This gives you two A/D tracks.  Engines can escape to the engine house.  There is a short spur for a couple of cabooses.  The track behind the engine house can be used as a rip track.

Jan

Jan's changes are what I would suggest too.   A roundhouse off the main line I don't think is common, usually being associated with a large yard and Jan's connections make it so.  Also, two single ended yards might be fine for a point to point, but you might consider a rework for the one large yard by the round house to not all be just dead end tracks.  Also, an engine escape in the yard would be nice so that you did not have to cut the road engine off before switching.  The main yard lead was also corrected by Jan where before they may be a bit short for the depth of the yard.  If the yard on the left is a 'fiddle' yard, that is fine, but otherwise, it is out there with no real reason to be there.  Maybe condense it to serve a large industry or two, or change it to all double ended tracks with bypasses so freight can pass through, or a stop to be broken up for interchange traffic, or making up a train intended for a spur.   Better yet, make that left yard an interchange with a track exiting off the upper left into the wall to give a reason for other RR's to be on your line.

I also agree with Jan’s ideas, but I don’t see the need for all the extra switches, etc. I’m sure I’m missing something, but I think this serves the same purposes. Jan?

As far as the left yard goes, I might make it strictly storage (if that what it’s for) and move it closer to the lower main and move the main switch to the right to connect. You’ve got storage for a ton of engines, but limited storage for rolling stock.

I would put that turntable lead to the main back in; that gives a secondary means of access to the barn if something happens on the primary lead,

The more the merrier. 🤣

I was in a hurry so I didn't get to fully explain everything.

1. The double track A/D allows for traffic to flow through the yard while a train is being switched.
2. Either A/D track can be used.
3. Storage tracks are accessible from either A/D track.
4. The engine facilities are accessible from both A/D tracks.
5. The extra switches form a run-around which is useful in the switching of cars.

Dave and company are right about the second 4-way and its purpose.  You could reconfigure that side with industries for switching opportunities and as an interchange point.  If you are going to run passenger trains you'll need stations that face the mainline.

Is this a round-the-wall layout?  You are using Ross and Gargraves track.

Jan

@DoubleDAZ posted:

I also agree with Jan’s ideas, but I don’t see the need for all the extra switches, etc. I’m sure I’m missing something, but I think this serves the same purposes. Jan?

As far as the left yard goes, I might make it strictly storage (if that what it’s for) and move it closer to the lower main and move the main switch to the right to connect. You’ve got storage for a ton of engines, but limited storage for rolling stock.

@Gerard Colf- Nice plan. The suggestions above are all good.

The single spur to the right of the TT....why? Kind of out of place to me.
I would suggest adding another double crossover there instead. That way you wouldn't have to go all the way around the layout to get a train from the main yard to the outer loop. Two crossovers would give you more operational flexibility too.

I'd like Dave's move of the TT leads. I would just rotate the whiskers to line them up straight in to the TT. I'd also put a left-hand switch back to back with the right-hand so that engines can get right out to the main and not have to enter the yard first.

The industry on the peninsula, (grain elevator?) add a second spur for car storage. Empties or loads can be staged and a local switcher can spot cars.

For the yard and one long siding on the left- I'd split it up and have the rear half come off the first yard track and the other half off the main. If those buildings are all to be served by the railroad, then the customer at the end would need all the other's to clear their loading docks to move his loads out.
Also look at a ladder arrangement with numbered switches (4,5,6 degree), instead of the 4-way. Might give you more track length for storage. You could have the first switch closer to the curve and then work from there.

I like it overall. Would be a fun layout to operate. Here's my mark up- changes in blue.

Bob

I really like the layout and the suggestions whatever you choose. You’ll have plenty of action switching rolling stock and engines around. I don’t think you’ll ever get bored with this design. You are very fortunate having this space available to you.

One suggestion.  Add a double ended siding where you can park a train.  That way, you can have 3 trains on the mainline and have a storage space for not so portable locomotives like a large articulated or a Milwaukee Road bi polar.

I just want to address the turntable. The bridge looks as long as the whisker tracks. Maybe 28” ?  It’s a wow factor on paper with all the trackage. You need a bit of clearance to get engines parked side by side. Even on whisker tracks.  If your squares represent 1 foot. I can’t see parking a steamer of any length. Only mentioning this as you mentioned adding facilities for steam engine servicing.

You have room to lengthen them. My concern is they now they get further out of reach.

It's very interesting how many people refer to the center of the layout as a "peninsula."  Unless the layout is widened quite a bit and the roundhouse moved to the right at least 2 feet, no one will be able to access the space between the roundhouse and the yard/industry area in the center.  AND, citing Murphy's law, guess where the engines will derail?

Chuck

I really appreciate all of the positive information all of you have provide. Makes me realize how ignorant I am about building this layout. I have attached the same layout with many of the ideas put forth. Not all of them, but some. Hopefully, with all of your helpful suggestions I will end up with a workable layout.

I forgot to mention that, as Chuck has mentioned, the access to the roundhouse and back side of the turntable, this has been a concern all along. Also, now that I have install track from the center portion of the layout to the turntable I have created a blockage to access this area, as narrow as it is, unless I create another "lift up".

Gerard

I like all your plans with double track loops, Wye, reversing loop, lots of storage tracks, turntable and small round house that does not hide too many locos.

My TT has only one feeding track to the TT, off the main line and that has not been an issue for operating my TT.  My layout TT area and whole layout is too small to add much more anyway.

Your earlier plans showed the TT feeding track coming from the loop track on the right side.  If you have a whisker track that lines up with the TT and the feeding track, you can store a couple of cars, say a wrecking crane and wrecking caboose that can be driven all three as shown below on my layout.

I did not quite understand the reason for the cut off of the upper right hand corner of the twin tracks.  If you could make that corner into a full corner or at least cut off less of the corner, you would have more room to add engine serving accessories like Dave suggested, coaling and water towers and even diesel fueling spout.

The OGR forumites are doing a great job at making improvements/suggestionon your layout plans.

Charlie

@Choo Choo Charlie posted:

Gerard

I like all your plans with double track loops, Wye, reversing loop, lots of storage tracks, turntable and small round house that does not hide too many locos.

Your earlier plans showed the TT feeding track coming from the loop track on the right side.  If you have a whisker track that lines up with the TT and the feeding track, you can store a couple of cars, say a wrecking crane and wrecking caboose that can be driven all three as shown below on my layout.

For what it's worth, real railroads NEVER had wrecking cranes with their support equipment stored/parked across a turntable! In the event of a derailment at the roundhouse turntable juncture, such derailment would block the turntable, and subsequently block the wrecker equipment. Thus a VERY BAD SITUATION!

The OGR forumites are doing a great job at making improvements/suggestionon your layout plans.

Charlie

@Gerard Colf posted:

I forgot to mention that, as Chuck has mentioned, the access to the roundhouse and back side of the turntable, this has been a concern all along. Also, now that I have install track from the center portion of the layout to the turntable I have created a blockage to access this area, as narrow as it is, unless I create another "lift up".

Not quite sure why you have turntable connected to both center and outside loop now?  If you had just changed to center connection you could have slid roundhouse and turntable (left) toward the center and created a a passage between that and the outside loop.  Also, without having the drawing to work with, if what I suggested doesn't give enough access, then try "flipping" TT area so whisker tracks point outward instead of inward.  (Turntable tucked up next to center tracks.)  Hope that makes sense.

Jim, I forgot to remove the turn table tracks for the outside loop. I am going to try flipping the turn table whisker tracks, as you suggested. I position the turn table and round house as it is because I have access on the angles portion of the layout from "outside" of the mainline tracks. I will try a different arrangement, perhaps that will give me the access I need. Again, Thank all of you for you help.  

I tried to recreate the design in SCARM, but there are no dimensions and I'm not sure of the grid size, minimum curve size, etc., and it's hard to make out the specific tracks. Here's what I have so far, it's enough to show my thoughts. I added a short lead on the north end of the TT. From there an engine can go to the yard using Jan's A/D tracks on the side of the yard or continue on around the loop. I also connected the north lead to the south lead for the TT, so if an engine is waiting, another can exit using the south lead, then go north to get to the yard. I see now that I could delete the north lead, but leave the tracks to the south and reconnect the right most whisker back the way it was. I also added the length of the whiskers and the size of the TT, not sure they're correct. I know the scale is off, but I hope you can see my points.

Does the software allow for labeling the tracks? Also, I find it easier to take a screenshot of the design to post rather than use the image the software saves with all that blank space.

If you post the RM file I could probably re-do it in SCARM and post it here.

How you do your own layout is totally up to you.

At a glance, the first thing that I question is access. There are some very deep scenes in the plan. How will you reach into those scenes to access track/etc?

Depending on the height of the layout, the practical limit for accessing is around 30".

Andre

I figured out how to take a "screen shot". I had to ask one of my Grandchildren.

The attached is the latest version. Hopefully we are making progress?

Thank you for all of your help!

Double DAZ, There may be a way to label different parts of the layout, unfortunately I do not know how to do that? Please let me know if the screenshot picture is any better.

Thanks, Gerard, but that isn't quite what I was talking about. Here's a YouTube video showing how to take a screen shot of just a portion of the screen on a Mac. It allows you to save just the layout design without all the empty space. It's not a big deal, so don't worry about it, but here are the instructions if you ever want to use the feature.

BTW, I think I found an app for the iPad that might let me view the RM file if you can figure out how to attach that file to a post like you did the screen capture.

https://youtu.be/hOawEk3sKoU?si=fRRo6-X1QYT_XVnr

Here's a bit more explanation of what I mean. Like I said, it's just information is case you ever have a need for it.

Photo 1 shows the SCARM work space. As you can see, there's a bit of blank space like that in the images you've been posting.

Photo 2 show what SCARM saves for posting. You can see it doesn't include the top ruler, side ruler, the grid or all the empty space. As you can see, the image is quite a bit larger and it's easier to see more details.

Photo 3 shows what I capture using a screen snipping tool on my laptop. I scroll the design closer to the left ruler then capture the rulers and grid along with the layout design. Like I said, I don't know what Rail Modeller Pro offers as far as the work space display goes. Obviously, it shows the grid in the photo it saves. You might have noticed that some of us took the photo you posted and edited to delete the empty space.