This is my first layout.

I liked it better without these added tracks. They take away from the one area with buildings leaving no room for roads or parking. Just my opinion, I'm no expert but prefer some room left for scenery.

Thank you Dave, for you suggestion. I appreciate everyone's input.

Why all the short whisker tracks when you're feeding them with a 33" TT?  I'd increase the whiskers to accommodate the largest locomotive the TT will handle with a couple inches extra.  It looks like you have the space.

Also, the curve in the top entry to the TT is a bad idea, you need a decent length of straight track coming into the TT.

Dave, I had to go back and see when those were added. I didn’t really think about them when I fiddled with the design in SCARM. I don’t mind the spurs so much as I do the curves and length. I guess it all depends on how it gets landscaped, but I agree it’s a prime spot for a town scene.

Dave, I had to try the You Tube information and see if I could produce the screenshot you were asking for. Let me know if I was successful.

John, I think that’s supposed to be a narrow aisle. I added the 33" label, but I don’t know if that’s what it is. It feeds a 3-stall RH that I think is small too with 24" whiskers inside the building, you can see the ticks where the doors are.

Gerard, good for you. I can make out the track labels along the left side as well as the ruler numbers now, so I can fix the sizing in my version in SCARM. BTW, do you already have the turntable (what size?), roundhouse and a bunch of engines or are you just planning?

Five bay Roundhouse made by Altoona Models, 33" Turn Table from Millhouse River Style. Purchase both sometime ago when I was more hopeful of building this layout. Work got in the way and things got delayed. Now I have much more time and I plan on starting the benchwork this fall. Foolishly I also purchase many engines and rolling stock. At one point my precious wife said I could not buy anything train related until I started the layout. Most are O scale Lionel and Sunset Models/Golden Gate, a small fortune in engines and rolling stock. An aside, my mother called me Gerard when I was in trouble, I usually go by Jerry

Thanks for the info, Jerry. I can’t tell from the photos you’ve posted, but is the back of the RH, w/3" extension, 63" from the center of the TT as specified by Altoona? Or do the instructions you have say something different? Also, I can’t tell, is that a 3 or 5-stall RH in your photos?

Hello Dave, The Round House is a five stall unit, and it is as you have pictured. I hope this helps. Sorry about the delay in responding.

Dave, I know that many of the dimensions on my layout, including the RH are not accurate, however, I had to work with what I have. I believe I have the room to place the RH and turntable where they need to go once I begin construction.

@Gerard Colf posted:

Dave, I know that many of the dimensions on my layout, including the RH are not accurate, however, I had to work with what I have. I believe I have the room to place the RH and turntable where they need to go once I begin construction.

Always a good idea to lay actual track and buildings, etc. on the floor prior to building bench work if you can to make sure it will fit.  "Measure" twice, cut once.

You have already made a major purchase in the roundhouse and turntable. It looks like it will be the focal point of your layout.  The best access and viewing it seems to be where it presently resides. I’d start right there as far as construction. The walls dictate most of the outside perimeter of the layout. Looking at what you have at this time for a plan.  While your reverse loop and turning wye in the center will offer more possibilities of running. It also seems to be an obstacle as what you can reach and have access to. To build the layout it is not necessary to include it right away. By eliminating 2 turnouts you can get your layout up and running and with a lift up you can have access to the inside. Where those turnouts would have resided just fill it out with straight trackage and get your trains running.
Have some fun running trains. A layout can evolve over time. With something up and running I think it will give a better perspective as to what can or can’t be accomplished with your remaining space in the middle. Sometimes better ideas come out when you run trains and see the layout itself rather than a drawing.

I do what MainLine Steam does.  Lay it out on the floor, build your benchwork around that.

I hope you build it, do what you think is best. And I do agree that getting trains running is a major step you want to get to.  Get your basic loops set up, wired and all.  It keeps it fun while you are working things out.

Go for it!

And don't do a curve track lead onto the turntable.  Bad idea, I know.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Also, the curve in the top entry to the TT is a bad idea, you need a decent length of straight track coming into the TT.

John, that was just to illustrate the point. Obviously, I’d straighten it out if Jerry likes the idea. Plus, if there’s nothing in the way for an engine to hit, why can’t there be a slight curve? Just asking.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

John, that was just to illustrate the point. Obviously, I’d straighten it out if Jerry likes the idea. Plus, if there’s nothing in the way for an engine to hit, why can’t there be a slight curve? Just asking.

The pilot hits the bridge if it comes in on a curve.

John, thanks. I went by a photo someone sent me some time ago that didn’t have anything in the way. I just googled and saw other photos with railings that could get hit. Maybe he didn’t put the railings on? Either way, like I said, I’d straighten it out.

@DoubleDAZ posted:

John, thanks. I went by a photo someone sent me some time ago that didn’t have anything in the way. I just googled and saw other photos with railings that could get hit. Maybe he didn’t put the railings on? Either way, like I said, I’d straighten it out.

The reason I know the pilot hits the bridge is I've seen it a couple of times, including my first trial layout of mine.   You need enough straight run to the TT to get the locomotive back in line with the bridge track.

Also, the pilot wheels may have a tendency to be not so aligned to the turntable track and this can be not so good.  Use a straight lead into the turntable.

Like I alluded to, but will now confess, I know this from experience.

John, how's this? I added the blue Altoona footprint box because the RH in the design is deceiving, it doesn't depict the 5-stall model that Jerry has. It fits within the footprint, but the dimensions are off. Anyway, I changed the leads so the top one is straight and the bottom one connects to the main in a different location.

As for the length of the whisker tracks, according to Altoona's footprint, the distance from the center of the TT to the back wall of the extended stall is 63", standard stall 60". The radius of the 33" TT is 16.5" (33/2). The distance to the door is 11.5" and 35" inside for the extended stall, 32" for the standard. I'm not sure of the exact length of the tracks inside, but an "MTH Big Boy at 35" won't fit. All but one of the outside whiskers in the photo are 29", the long one is 39". I could be wrong, but accounting for clearance, it seems to me they will accommodate most engines and one long engine like the Big Boy.

Either way, I was still concerned that there wasn't enough room for access between the peninsula and TT/RH. Maybe I'm missing something, but I saw no need for the yard lead to wrap all the way around, so I cut it short to make the aisle 20" wide at its narrowest point. Obviously, that doesn't include the bench work, so it's closer to 15-18", possibly enough to deal with a derailment, etc. The spur is long enough for a yard engine with a couple of cars to get out of the way of an arriving/departing train. Personally, if it were me, I'd delete the left yard and expand the right yard something like the second photo. Compared to Jerry's photo, the scale for the aisles is off at the bottom and side of both my photos, but they show the ideas.

Looks fine Dave, you just need enough straight track at the approach for the locomotive to straighten out and hit the bridge section straight on.

Dave,

Just a quick note - when you placed a more accurate roundhouse into the layout, you only used the 3-stall version.  I think if you use the 5-stall version, the "access issue" will become more apparent.  To resolve, how about putting the wye into the lower right hand corner and allow the peninsula track to curve into the open area from there?  Or, alternatively, put the wye anywhere else at the bottom of the plan?

Chuck

I was finally able to get back to my desk. I rearranged parts of the layout. See what you think? I appreciate all of the time and energy you folks spending on this layout. I have placed many building on the layout, nothing set in stone1

Chuck, the blue rectangle with the TT is the footprint of the 5-stall, so even though the roundhouse that’s there is only 3-stall, the overall footprint is correct, that’s why I added the rectangle. I don’t have a 5-stall Altoona roundhouse in SCARM.

Jerry, I like it. I don’t even mind the curved spurs the way you landscaped them. However, I think you might need to check the spacing of the tracks around the loop, they look too close to clear engines passing in the opposite directions. That’s why I don’t use back to back curved switches. I can see how my rendition is not to the same scale as yours.

Also, the crossover at the bottom is a duplicate of the one on the left. Didn’t you want it to go in the opposite direction so trains can cross in both directions?

Hello Dave and John;

I forgot to mention that I was able to add approximately one foot in length to the wall to the right of the angled "wall" at the turntable/roundhouse area. The length of the wall (to the right of the angled wall is approximately 15' in length, actually longer, but I have 15' to work with. I have not changed the roundhouse size on the drawing. I believe I have enough room if the actual roundhouse is larger than the drawing, which I know it is. The track between the mainline tracks and the turntable/roundhouse is for servicing engines. Again not very much area, we will see what I have to work with when I start building the benchwork. I can "borrow" more room if necessary, however, I would rather not. Thanks again!

Dave, Thank you for your input. I am concerned about the spacing around the loop, I am working on correcting that. Also, I was going to change the crossover and in my haste, forgot to.

10-4 Jerry. I think it’s a nice design.

I like the plan too.

Solid start Jerry.

Bob

I hope I am getting close?

Dave and Gerry,

Is there a way to connect the engine service facility to the yard without having the engines to travel along the inter main?

Jan

Jerry, I just noticed that there are no engine escapes in either section of the yard. If a train pulls in engine first, it needs a way to uncouple the cars and escape. To do that there’s usually a crossover near the end of the arrival track positioned so an engine can cross over to the next track and escape. You’ll see what I mean if you look at the last samples I posted. Truth be told, there are usually crossovers positioned around the yard so yard engines can move through the yard without having to go all the way out. I say that only if you intend to pull in going forward vs backing in. There is the spur that Jan suggested to pull through the right side of the yard and then back in, so it’s only an issue if you plan to pull in going forward and run a yard engine to switch cars around. Switches are expensive, so if you don’t plan to work a yard, I’d save the money. It all depends on how much prototypical operation or the look you want.

Hi Jerry,  I have really enjoyed reading this thread!  In OGR Run 237 (aug/sep 2024), Dave Minarik discussed the "Beginning of the End" with respect to building his layout, which he has documented over the years in Team Track.  He has modified and improved his layout over the last 20 years (I have done so on my much smaller layout as well).  The one suggestion that Dave M has is "to operate the layout as you build it. That way you will find problem areas one by one during construction."

Your two mainlines and turntable are the crown jewels of your layout, get them up and running and enjoy those big steamers running around in different directions. That would look so cool!  You may find you want some elevation to parts of the track or other scenic features, to give different looks.  Wiring is never easy, but the OGR Forum is the place to go for answers.  You may be able to get your benchwork built for the mainlines, based on your track plan, the TT may need more tweaking, so build that separately, and adjust accordingly.    

We also love to see progress, so please keep us posted.

@Jan posted:

Dave and Gerry,

Is there a way to connect the engine service facility to the yard without having the engines to travel along the inter main?

I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but here’s an idea that may not fit. Without having the design in SCARM, it’s hard to test What Ifs.

If you’re talking about the lower right, I don’t see why the line can’t be separate, but then I can’t tell what the building is. I was hoping Jerry might figure out how to post his RM file because there’s supposedly an app that will let users view the files, but not edit them. I think that would let me recreate the design in SCARM. My old eyes just can’t make out all the tracks as posted.

If it’s the upper wye, the only way I see is breaking up the wye and treating the peninsula as a local line. A single crossover going left on the left side and a single going right on the other side would do it, but I don’t think there’s room.

On another subject, I can see a train using the red line to the left to go past the yard to back in or go right to pull in forward. I can see a train using the blue line to go to the left or right to reverse and then back up to service the sidings. What I can’t see is a train using the curved crossover for anything other than a passing siding and I don’t see that happening either. What am I missing?

Dave,

My thought is the purple line running from the engine terminal to the right arm of the wye.   Its viability depends on the engine's minimum radius and the track radius used in the wye.  Ross does make a curved switch with an O72 smaller radius.

Jan

Jan, I don’t think it will fit, but I honestly didn’t see a problem with engines having to go through the 2 switches on the inside main for the short time they need. It’s the same on the bottom right. Like I said I didn’t intend that to be a through track, just long enough for an engine to get to the TT. I just don’t see running a solo engine around the layout to get to/from the yard, even more so now that the yards have beed combined.

Hello Dave, Jan, and DL Burnett,

I had a few minutes this afternoon to try and address some of your comments. Dave (DoubleDAZ) I am trying to find a way to post the RM file so that you folks will have access to it, so far no luck. SCRAM works only on windows not on my MAC, so that is out of the question. I did add the track from the TT (purple line in the upper right hand corner that was added) which eliminates using the inside main line to get to the center area. Dave, I am not sure if I can install "engine escapes" in the Yard areas, still working on that.

That’s great Jerry. I should have mentioned I didn’t think it would work with O-72 curves. I assume you simply used O-54/O-72 curved switches. If you have or buy an engine you can then use the main.

As far as the RM file goes, don’t spend a lot of time trying. I believe they have the .layout extension on the filename. Here’s what I found when I search for how to locate files on a Mac, but I don’t know how that relates to adding an attachment on OGR. On my iPad, I use the Files app to search for things like .pdf files and I imagine Finder is similar. Like I said, don’t try too hard. I just wanted to see if the app I saw would let my view the file and get track info so I could try to recreate the design in SCARM.

Dave, I have unfortunately or fortunately had to use 0-54/0-72 curved switches in several places on this layout trying to make the track arrangement work. Not being familiar with this switch, am I going to have problems with engines and  21" passenger cars, that require a minimum  0-72 curve? Thank you for the information on finding files on MAC.