I used to, I stopped.  The Lionel rope is the way to go.  IMO.

What is ironic is that some of the same people who own train collections worth thousands are looking to make their own smoke fluid and find cheap alternatives for the wicking material used in the smoke units.

Reality check: 

A bottle of MT MegaSteam smoke fluid (or similar)  costs only about $6.00 and it can last a considerable length of time.

Genuine Lionel wicking costs $1.60 each and it lasts a long time too.

The smoke units were designed for a special wicking and fluid type to work properly. The research has already been done to produce the best results.

Does it make sense to save pennies to skimp here and possibly risk malfunction or damage the smoke generator on an expensive engine?

I like the MTH braided wick, that's my "go-to" wick nowadays.  I've used Tiki wick, and it works, but it's somewhat of a PITA to work with.  I'm getting some of the Lionel wick now that it's available again, we'll see if it makes the cut.

 

 

Well I picked some up. I went to Charles Ro today and they didn't carry the Mth or lionel wick!  I'll try this in my beater caboose. Who has the lionel wicks for sale?

The biggest concern is that it has a cotton content. So, it will burn away when in contact with the resistor.

 

Try to unravel it and see if you can get it to fluff.

 

One member has been grabbing pieces of the insulation from his garage for years. So, some fluffed fiberglass would probably work better.

 

I get the Lionel wicks combined with some other items when I order from Lionel. The flat shipping fee makes it cost prohibitive to order just the wicks.

All the above seems to work to some degree.
Probably a marginal difference but folks will be shirking this forever.

The ability to absorb enough fluid to last awhile without leaking all over the place if overfilled plus the ability to transfer easily to the resister via capillary action.
The biggest for all, especially when you use uncoated wire wound resisters to get better smoke output is that they all eventually chart and stop doing both efficiently.

In my proccess of solving another problem, which was failing to effectively isolate the hot lead of the resistor, I stumbled across some high temp ( 2600 Degree Continuous, 3000 Degree Intermittent) woven ceramic sleeves that are very similar to the fiberglass ones that everyone removes because ther burn very quickly. If it works and I pack additional wicking in without restricting airflow, I hope to be able to have a very low maintenance smoke unit.
I will update after I get a chance to experiment.

This will not be the answer you want to hear, but they can be ordered from Lionel.  I don't have the model #'s handy, but I think they have "SMK" in the numbers (search for that under "replacement parts"). 

 

Best to wait until you have a bunch of small parts and such you need to spread out the pain of the $9 S&H charge.  (that's the only reason I suggest it's not the answer you want.  It's otherwise easy and simple to order any available parts form Lionel's site)

 

-Dave

 

I have used both the tiki torch wick and fiber glass insulation with good results.  I prefer the fiberglass insulation better since it's easier to fluff up.  The tiki torch has to be cut from its protective sleeve, then somehow interwoven and fluffed up which is more of a pain to me than the fiberglass of which I have life time supply in my attic. 

 

I haven't yet tried the Lionel batting yet, but I need try that as well next time I order parts for future use.  I looks really good, has great reviews, and recommended by Lionel and others on the forum which I trust.

 

Usually, I'm just in a pinch to get a smoke unit up and going again fast.

 

I used to use tike wick and I still have some in the drawer in case I run out of the good stuff. It works OK, but it is not as resistant to scorching as Lionel or MTH factory wick material. For the rather small difference in cost, I'd rather use the real thing. I generally stock up on wicks when I am sending a parts order to Lionel, MTH, or somebody like Boxcar Bill who stocks the stuff. Just ordering wicks from Lionel leaves you paying an awful lot for shipping relative to the cost and weight of the product. Saving up your parts orders and stocking up is the way to go.

 

As for the alleged difficulty of using tiki wick, my reaction is ????? It's batting. You cut it to length, fluff it up, and wrap it according to the particular smoke unit you're working on. It's not significantly more or less hassle than anything else. 

Don't mess with any of that crap.  Use the proper wicking material.  Stay clear of the insulation thing also.  Use the right product for the job.

Do not even mess with the right stuff. Just shut it off, put it on the shelf and never run trains again.

LOL.
The stuff posted as if it were absolute truth is amazing on this site.
I would never do that.


LOL, LMAO

And never kit-bash, modify, model or try anything new unless it came in a box with instructions from manufacturer who labeled the "Right Stuff"

LMAO so hard I cannot breathe. Ha, Ha.

Fred, I looked at ceramic sleeve after you mentioned. I read some lab results on the 3M product, as it was available. Their lowest grade does char which causes electrical shorts when used for electrical insulation in a hot environment. The rest do not. get the upper grades, if you can.

 

I also looked at the heat transfer results. The higher grades do not, but the lower grades sufficiently transfer heat.

 

So, the sweet spot is one or two up from the low grade. Your idea sounds good. My son-in-law works on nuclear reactors. I am going to ask if they use any of this to see if I can get my hands on some. Are you thinking 1/8" or 1/16"?

The best reply in this thread!

 

 

You spent a lot of money on locomotives; spend a few dollars on the correct product.

 

 

Agreed!    Don't nickel and dime over a cheap part.  Get the right thing.

Do you have the part number for lionel and mth batting?

Marty has done more repairs in a month than I'll do in a lifetime.  I would trust what he says.  While other things may work, as others have pointed out, why skimp on a $1k engine.

If everyone thought like that we would still be using smoke pellets. And no one would buy GRJ's super chuffing circuit.

The engineers motto: if it ain't broke take it apart and fix it.

Hi Carl,
I also looked at the 3M specs and rejected it.
I think heat transfer is not a major concern.
I am counting on direct contact via capillary action to the open wirewound resistor.
The problem seems to be that the existing wicking functions well until it burns melts, charts etc.then it loses its ability to effectively absorb and transfer the fluid. My idea is that the open wave will provide a capillary transfer route, insulate the wicking from the excessive heat. I am considering putting an opening on the top side of the resistor. That way the smoke does not need to pass back through the woven material and Re condense. Still an unproven theory. Solve the charring issue and the smoke unit should not require frequent rebuilds when you use them as often as I do.

The 3M 320 looks like the stuff. There were some NASA tests showing it soaked in jetfuel at high temps without damage. The lower grades char after 10 minutes.

 

Anyway, I spoke to nuke boy and he is going to look. They don't use any wire sheathing on the crane device control wiring that moves the rods. The water stops most of the zoomies. There's a control area near the core that may use it. He is going to look around.

 

I can't imagine what this stuff would cost. Was thinking of asking for a sample.

Hi Carl,
A couple of dollars a foot seems to be the going
rate for 1/16 and 1/8 with 1/32 wall thickness. 


I bought some Cotronics Ultra Temp 391.
Overpaid from McMaster-Carr but got it next day.
I think I paid about a buck inch  for a foot of each.

But enough to do some testing.

I agree with many that have commented.  Why cheap out?  Use the proper material.

 

You could use a butter knife in place of a screwdriver, but why would you?

what is the "proper material"?
That is the point.
Because a manufacturer is providing a particular material based multiple decisions including cost, do not make it the "proper" material.

Any idea how much stuff 3-M rebrands for different applications and markets.
With a price structure based on what they can get ant not cost.

The other stuff was the "proper stuff" at one time.
They changed it because it did not work well.
And made a video on how to improve the smoke output because the original design with the proper stuff, " proper" sized air intake and correct fiberglass sleaving on the smoke resustor did not seem " proper".
I disagree that the Lionel stuff is the " proper" stuff. Tell that to the other train manufacturors. It is the stuff that they are selling right now.

I totally agree that using the "right stuff" for the job is the smart way to go..

however I think in most cases it is more a case availability and convenience  than saving a few cent$.. I don't think those using replacement stuffing are trying to save money as much as finish the job with whats on hand.

 

I know from now on I will wait to work on my smoke units until I have the correct wicking.... 

Many times I'll try a different procedure or material just to see how it performs.  It's nice to have that knowledge base before you need it.  For customer repairs, I try to use the "real deal" so as not to have any issues in case of problems.

 

Lionel smoke unit batting 8" -- 691SMKP008

Marty mentions that the Lionel fiberglass pad is not a good product. I agree. The first time I ordered the new style rope wicks from Lionel, they were out of the wicks and substituted the square pads without asking if that was acceptable. The pads are still in my parts box; I'll use them someday. A subsequent order was filled correctly. 

Marty F and Gunrunnner John have it right. The MTH braided wicks are terrific and easy to use.  I plan on purchasing a supply when at York from the MTH booth.  They will have plenty of it there.  Why mess with stuff you have to cut and measure and then try to stuff it in place?

Hi Hiawatha,

I had the same experience and have never gotten a chance to try the good rope stuff.

And Charles Rho never had it in stock whenever I have asked over the last several years. and I stop in there quite often as they are right down the street from my sons school.

I only have one MTH steam loco that was converted to TMCC by TAS. It has great constant steam and never had a problem with it but I need to consult with GRJ about how to upgrade it with his new circuit.

 

Hi Marty, in no way was I trying to disrespect your experience and knowledge.

I was poking fun at your announcement that you knew something but did not actually share any information.

I apologize if it came across as mean. It was intended to be in good fun.

 

"Don't mess with any of that crap.  Use the proper wicking material.  Stay clear of the insulation thing also.  Use the right product for the job."

 

But I still believe the weakness in all the wicking materials is that with the desire to use hotter exposed wire wound resisters that they all eventually fail in the heat resistance area and loss their ability to function efficiently as a smoke fluid transfer material.

 

I am a firm believer in repair people using OEM replacement parts unless otherwise agreed upon.

Since I only work on my own stuff, it was more out of convenience/frustration that I first tore apart an old tiki torch after Lionel sent me that 1' pad of fluff.

 

it has worked well for the last year but like all of the wicking will need to be replaced due to charring anyway and does not harm the loco. I do more harm taking the engine apart.LOL

That is why I am interested in solving that issue. Then any absorbent matter might be acceptable and then the goal would be to increase the acceptable running time before refilling.

 

Funny this topic should come up. I was having this discussion

with a friend of mine the other day.

He said he has used Tampons of all things. They work just fine.

The key is the material ( Tiki torch ect. ) should have strands in it.

 

Ok, let the jokes begin....

 

 

Well there you go; even tampons work!  Doesn't matter if it's a $100 engine or a $2K engine, it's just a smoke unit.  The obvious thing is for everyone to use what works best in their situation, or makes you feel good philosophically.

 

Rich

If I can solve the scorching/charring issue with the ceramic woven sleeve, felt will be my first option to experiment with.

 

Felt Wicking, Wiping / Applicator Strips & Fluid          Transfer Felt for Wicking: Felt has extraordinary wicking capabilities, delivering consistent fluid flow without material deterioration. Felt is extremely absorbent and can retain many times its weight in fluids. Felt is highly oil absorbent and is not compromised by continuous oil saturation. Felt for Wiping / Applicator Strips /          Fluid Transfer: Felt's predictable and consistent fluid transfer rate make it the ideal material for transferring fluids or coatings to another surface Felt's highly absorbent properties make it the perfect choice for oil and grease removal from surfaces Felt can be cut to fit custom holders Felt applicators act as reservoir and applicator in one highly resilient and long lasting piece Applications include: Shaft lubrication Fluid Transmission Ink Pads Applicators Fluid Absorption The wicking ability of felt varies with density.

Fred, I live in Dedham if you need a few sections of wicking.  Hit my email and I can throw them in the mail.

Some stuff is made for Tiki torches not trains. Don

Roger that Don!

Marty- do you have the part number for lionels batting?  I can't find it anywhere and when I went to Charles Ro they didn't have any

I posted that Lionel part # above... look about 10 posts up

The most significant problem I have experienced is putting too much wick material in the smoke unit reservoir. The excessive wick material occupies volume that should have smoke fluid. The end result is burned wick material.

 

Another problem I caused is not spreading the wick material over the entire length of the resistors. This cuts down on the rate of smoke production.

 

As for wick material, I use the fiberglass torch wick, but it is messy and there is a lot of waste. I am going back to the MTH wick material. I never seem to have the MTH wick available when I need it, so it needs to stock piled.