TIME TO PACKED IT ALL UP.

Bob, they all failed at the same spot. The top metal nail brackets pulled out of the wood.

Hi Stephen, I'm really sorry about your building problems. I would like to ask you to please keep us posted on how things work out. It sounds like something we can all learn from

Bob asked some very pertinent questions, like I said we have learned more from our mistakes over then years then our successes, so please share.

In any case be patient my friend, these things tend to pass into memory faster then one might think when it is all fresh in our minds. Before you know it all is fixed and then a new platform can take shape. 

Sorry to hear this.

Alex

I just saw your pictures and I don't really think things are all that out of control. I bet a good carpenter can jack up those truss supports and refasten them using 3/8 inch nuts and bolts.

I would get away from those steel joiner plates and use 2" by 12" plates under the peaks, cut to mimic the original angel. Fasten to one 2 by 4 riser and jack into position then fasten to the other riser after the position is proper. Again sister the new rack braces in with water proof glue and bolts.

After you get everything into position and bolted into place cut 2 X 4's to fit along side the original truss A frames locking in the top joiner plates and increasing your roof supports to 4 X 4's.

In any case buddy I'm not there to look at it. Fixing something with a three hundred mile long screw driver is tough, but as I said above it dose not look all that hopeless to me at all.

Good luck friend and keep us posted please. 

Hello

Sorry to hear about your ill garage.

All is not lost and this is very repairable without tearing everything down.

Just you are going to have to cut over sized plywood plates to replace the load lost in the truss metal plates.

A 3/4 plate on each side glued and bolted will bring everything back ,once you jack it all into place

Back in the day when I was building houses we made own trusses on the job sight.

I wish I had some pic's to show you ,but they are long gone.

Back in 2004 after we were beaten up here in central Fla this is what we did to fix broken trusses at a friends place.

The building dept wanted to know who did the work as it was better than new.

Wishing the best of luck

Steve:  The pictures are very telling.  Two things stand out.  It appears as though there is insufficient nailing plate at the joint of the web members and the top chords.  Also, it seems as though there was some type of uplift to the roof peak.  Have you had any tornadoes reported lately?  Tornadoes create vacuum over a large area.  It would have to been very freakish to have a tornado only partially lift your roof.  From the pictures, it seems as though the nailing plates' factory spikes are all pointed in an upward angle.  

Roof trusses are designed to resist downward or compression forces.  This appears to have had some type of lifting force put upon it.  

I'm pretty sure this can be fixed, as long as the wood in the trusses is not degraded by dry rot or insect damage.  Please keep me informed.  I am greatly interested in the actual cause and repair.  Bob S.

Mario, meter man. You have no idea how good it sounds that this issue may be able to be repaired,wow that would really be wonderful. Thank's for the information and your thoughtfulness I will keep every posted as it moves along…….

Bob, I would have to say no to Tornadoes but hi winds are not uncommon in this area. I had an 80mph wind blow down a free standing wall in one of my Elem Schls. 25 years ago it also blow out a dozen 2ft. x8ft. concrete roof sections.

Look forward to hearing rom you soon. Good luck.

Maybe it's not be as bad as it looks? I agree with the others above that a good carpenter could fix this without having to tear it all down and re-do the whole roof. Sure looks like it could be raised back up into proper position and secured somehow. Getting a structural engineer to examine it might be a good idea as well. Maybe your insurance agent will be able to help you with a reputable engineer and carpenter?

Sorry to hear of the unfortunate problem with the roof. Like everything else material it can be fixed and hopefully it is not too extensive of a repair job. Keep the trains dry and your chin up. Don't let this unfortunate event get you down. In a few months everything will have passed and you will be up and running again.

I too am rooting for a repair that is not too difficult. Especially if the beams are still intact at the top and can still carry load. My dad recently built an A frame cabin in the mountains -- he's there now and my neighbor and son are contractors. I'll ask them if I can remember.

Just sitting here discussing the situation with Putnam Division. Mario is spot on regarding being able to repair these. Based upon the appearance of the trusses, check to male sure the walls are still plumb.

Putnam Division, my son and I checked all the walls one out of plumb just a bit the others on dead on. Thank's for the information and concern.     Steve P

Thank you Dennis and Scott.

Searching around the net, after reading of your problem, I discovered a phenomena that occurs with roof trusses. It's called Truss Uplift. it results from the truss members expanding and contracting at different rates, usually in winter. The top is cold and the bottom is warmer. The bottom piece exerts upward pressure against the top.

Did you notice any ceiling cracking from the bottom member bowing upwards?

They all do it, to some extent. The extreme cold we encountered this year may have stressed it beyond it's limits and popped all of the top plates.

Not sure of the repair procedure. I'll speak to a life-long builder friend to perhaps give you some insight on the possible remedies.

Well, here's one story from a firm in PA. They can be repaired and will require an engineer to design the repair.

I also noticed an access door to the "attic". Trusses are not designed to have loads on the bottom chord. You never used that for storage, right?

What about the garage doors supported from the truss?

An Architect friend suggested the truss wasn't sized for the weight of the sheet rock.

I have never heard of a truss failing so this is an eye opener. Wow !!  Talk about a bummer.  I have a second cousin who, after he retired,  manufacture roof trusses. If you want, I can talk to him. He lives near me-old a WW II vet, but still sharp. A lot depends on what the insurance  co. says, good luck.  If it were me, I would make a major effort to repair the trusses. Looks to me that it could be done. Hang in there and stay in touch.

Moonman,RichO, Let me start with moonman's info on Truss Uplift. WOW I have never herd of this but when you look at the trusses and the way they failed it does look like that could have happen. I also have red that repairs need to be designed by an engineer. RichO, I told Wick's Lumber It would have light storage placed on the trusses and they said that's fine however I never told them that I was going to sheetrock the garage…… One note. Last summer my son and I removed all but a few items that was stored up in the truss area because I was no longer capable of accessing it. Thank both of you guy's for your input and your time…..

Jim, any information from your cousin would be appreciated. Thank you, Steve

All the new homes around me have sheetrock attached to engineered trusses.  I never thought that might be a problem. 

Stephen,

You mentioned earlier in the thread that you built the garage with engineered trusses.

In your paperwork for the trusses or your building permit application, did you actually receive an engineer's certification with a seal for the structural specifications?

One thing that came out of the conversation with my friend that is a builder, is the safety factor.

having connector plates off and some noticeable sag is a scary situation. The trusses are at a critical point with the structural integrity severely weakened. One cannot tell how much more weight or pressure will cause a collapse. His recommendation was to have someone shore up the bottom chord with supports from the garage floor to the ceiling. get a carpenter in to do that as soon as you can. This also complies with most insurance company's requirement that the owner do what is necessary to prevent further damage.

Please be very careful in and around the garage.

if you would like to hear more, my email is in my profile. I would like to keep that offline.

Sorry for your problem, Wishing you the best, Good Luck.

Good morning Moonman, I believe that I have all the paper work for the garage.Yesterday late afternoon my son and I installed temp support, my son at that point went up to get a close look. He feels that the roof failed and should be removed.No matter what repairs are done every winter when it snows you will wonder if or when it will happen again. And that the roof will never to true. nails,shingles,chord braces, all have moved and each and every one would need to be made true. The insurance adjuster,I was told yesterday,will be in contact with me in the next 24 to 48 hours. I will go through the papers and see what I have.  Please thank your friend for his help. 

Wow, some issue. At least its only at the Chicken Little stage, not Humpty Dumpty.

 Sticking around will help you to keep from forgetting the trains for 10 years.

Your presence here as important as any.

Good luck.

I sincerely hope your dilemma has a happy ending.

I strongly recommend that you have a professional structural engineer (PE) licensed to practice in New York State look at your garage before fixing it. The objective is to obtain an independent engineering report just in case you need to challenge the adjustment you receive, and for use in a civil court if you pursue the lumber company.

Casey,Adriatic, Bobby,  thank's for the kind words. The STRESS is really starting to build.     I ask my son yesterday if he through it a good idea to have a hammer in my hands when I meet with the adjuster…..LOL that's is a joke if any of you are wondering…..

Stephen, I am sorry to hear this bad news. I hope this can be repaired fairly easily. 

I was going to send you a private message but only premium members can do that. I live in Poughkeepsie near Marist College. If you would like to get together some time let me know. I hope you are able to get this fixed with minimal disruption and cost and can get back to having fun with your trains.

Thanks Joe, let me ask you a question, when putting my engines into storage is there any service I should do to them? The reason I ask is that if I don't get them up and running in the near future I don't won't them to get damage.

I don't think there's anything special you need to do. I would put those little silica packs with them to absorb moisture. If stored for a long time I would also lube them before running them after unpacking.

Thank's Joe, I look forward to meeting with you in the near future….

No need for thanks, the credit given was earned

 You may wish to oil them lightly with an oiled rag on dry metal surfaces, etc.. Oh a coat on the wheels, and a drop on axels ahead of storage would be smart insurance too.

  While not great for some paint, & plastic, long term storage of machine bearings & such is done in oiled paper. Weapons are cleaned & oiled before storage too. Remember, Lionel boasted military grade machining

 I've seen a few motors separated from the shells for storage long ago. But those were simpler tin plates being "preserved", and will likely never see track again unless a "real user" owns them next.

"I strongly recommend that you have a professional structural engineer (PE) licensed to practice in New York State look at your garage before fixing it. The objective is to obtain an independent engineering report just in case you need to challenge the adjustment you receive, and for use in a civil court if you pursue the lumber company."

excellent advice!  you need to get a pro involved on your payroll.

Thank you Forrest, you and some other forum members have suggested that I get some pros on my side. I think that you guy's are right.   

Our old house had foundation problems. Before we moved a couple years ago we got a licensed structural engineer (PE) to give us a report on it. I think it was only like $175 for the report and plans to correct the problem. As part of the deal he would come back after the repairs and inspect it again. They buyer took it 'as is', wanted to do the work himself and save the costs. I don't know if the final inspection was ever done? Anyway, the costs were reasonable, at least for what we had done.

Now the scary part here is we bought a new house and the foundation is fine, but I am fairly certain it has a truss roof. And naturally the ceilings are all sheet rock. As Farmer Bill said above, I think all the homes around here are now truss roof with sheet rock.

In 1985 we  lost our house and most of our belongings in a fire. Our insurance company, Nationwide, treated us very well and fair. Not the cheapest but they were there. Personally, I think any legal action in this case would be expensive, drawn out and not worth it.  See what your insurance co. says first.

Jim that must have been devastating. The insurance adjuster will be here on Tues. I'am hope he's one of us a train guy and tears come to his eye's when he see's my table… rtr12 don't loose sleep over the sheet rock thing I would bet that they are designed to handle it.

You have bigger problems than I do right now, my concern was mainly all this new information on trusses that was sort of unsettling. As I am sure it was to you as well. I always thought trusses were supposed to be a better way to build something. Had no idea they failed like that. Learn something new every day I guess. I think they would have to design residential house trusses for sheet rock. Lots of liability there if they didn't, I would think.

Hope your experience with the insurance man is a good one, with good news for the repairs as opposed to having to replace everything in the roof. A good carpenter with some good help can do some pretty amazing work though. Just hope for the best. I think you are right, probably would be good if he was a 'train guy'. Maybe you will get lucky on that one?