TIME TO PACKED IT ALL UP.

I think what really gets me upset is the fact that I really worked hard on making this layout the best modeling I have ever done and every time I walk into the garage I realize its all coming down……  As Arnold would say…..I'll Be Back…….    Today I found my bldg. permits and the Certificate of Occupancy from the town for the garage…...

I feel your pain with my just having taken down my layout. I am enjoying planning its replacement when the contractors are finished with my basement. I even used the occasion of my layout teardown and York to purchase the Mianne "Lift-Gate" to save my knees and back to enter the center of the revised layout.  I am sure your new layout will be even better than the old.

Thank's winrose46, have fun planing and building your new layout….

Steve, what happened with the roof? Was it possible to make repairs without taking down the layout? I'm hoping you were able to resolve this without spending a lot of money and with as little aggravation as possible.

Hi guy's, not much to report on the garage roof. The insurence sent a claims adjuster to inspect it. Young man in his thirties.He in the several years as a claims adjuster never saw trussers fail like that. They will send down a structural engineer to look. I did as many of you suggested and called my own. Some of you may recall that I hoped the claims person was a Train Guy. No luck there, but my engineer when entering the garage said and I quote  WOW WHAT A TRESTLE. Any way he also has never seen trussers fail like that. His report covers Snow Load and Thermo Temp difference that may have caused the trusses to move in different directions. He could not see any damage to the trusses other than at the top even with the snow load. I hope to here from the insurance people this week as to Screwed or not Screwed that is the question…… I spoke with my engineer and ask for repair drawings stamp and certified so I can have some conferdance that the structure is safe and meets all codes in n.y. state. MY LAYOUT IS GONE…. TO BE CONTINUED……...

Still watching Steve, hoping for the best outcome for you.  Bob

Thanks to all of you.  Steve    

A major bummer Steve, I hope you can come back stronger than ever. :

Thank you John….

Stephan:

So sorry to hear about your layout room.  I just first read this and couldn't help think about my own situation.  I  just added on to my 24 x 24 garage with a 22 x 22 train room.

https://ogrforum.com/t...76#40567597780279476

My trusses are built in a similar manner.  I believe I have a little more pitch, but I live up in the Adirondacks.

One thing I noticed about your steel fastener plates from your photo is that it looks to me like the plate didn't have enough of a bite on the diagonals.  Either the plate was located too-high up or it was just not long enough to be able to get a good bite on the diagonals.

Best of luck to you on your repairs. 

Tom

This is all very unsettling, but hang in there through the maze.  At some point (probably seemingly quicker than we like at our age) it will all be resolved.  Then you can have the satisfaction of creating something new.

So in all the roof hasn't collapsed yet. There is a reason for that. Instead of being supported by the failed trusses your roof is being supported through  a different set of elements. That is diaphragm action of both side roofing panels acting as full length giant trusses  and the arching action of both diaphragms. The problem is that's like two playing cards tilted up against each other only the end walls are triangulating (locking) the roof diaphragms  together, That is not enough.

Dumb question, but once you remove the table, couldn't the roof be jacked into place and the trusses repaired?  It would seem that it would be possible without tearing the whole roof off.

If I'm reading Stephen's response correctly and the failure is due to excessive snow loading, repair may not be prudent. Also, if it turns out to be covered by Insurance, they likely would insist on new trusses.

While it is easy to write, jacking those trusses up could probably be difficult. A good crew could have that whole roof ripped off in a day and before next weekend the job would be done (assuming all of the new materials were on-site).

I cannot tell for sure from the pictures, but I would be interested if the trusses have GANG-NAIL brand connectors. Doesn't look like it because GANG-NAIL usually has their brand name stamped on them in blue ink. If it were mine, I would insist on GANG-NAIL for the new trusses. They are made of a heavier steel and the nails are longer.

Just a suggestion.   I was involved in such a repair of a garage about 20 years ago, there was no insurance involved, so ripping off the roof would have been a lot more expensive.  It was done with a couple of lally columns and hydraulic jacks.  The patient still lives, at least the last time I was at the guy's house.  It only took two of us a few hours to do the job.  Like you say, if insurance is involved, I'd probably just opt for the "deluxe" job, however our repair was only a couple hundred dollars and a day's work.

First, I am licensed professional engineer and structural engineer in Illinois, not New York and for the past 17 years  I have not practiced engineering at all; second, I don't have all the information on the structure and its failure aspects except a few photos; third, I am just responding generally to the physics of the situation as I see it based on my limited info. So that governs my response. I recommend that he hires a registered NY SE to advise further.

Thus, I would "guess" that the trusses could be collar-tied across the A-frames' outer beams to created triangulation of the broken trusses preventing them from opening up further over the walls. However this may be more involved than removing the roof and starting over. That is what a NY SE should be reviewing and making recommendations based in his/her investigation and analysis.

Depending on the damage the trusses may not be repairable.  Roof trusses are designed to function as a single piece, so to speak, the right way to say it escapes me, but the webs and plates all work together to give it it's structural integrity.  That said, if you had new trusses on site, a tear off and reroof could be done in a day, easy.  Well, not easy if you have to do it, (right GRJ?) but with a decent crew it can be done.

Not cheap either.  Also, putting a new roof on a large garage is a lot of work!  I also did that exactly one time, NEVER AGAIN!  I have great respect for the roofers that get up there and do that every day of the year, it's some seriously hard work! 

You've got that right! Just humping the shingle squares up the ladder would do me in!

No way I could do it today, that's a young man's game.

I helped a guy roof a house when I was about 27-28. Getting the shingles up there was definitely the worst part, but the rest was not a whole lot better. I am with GRJ, never again, and I said that right after we finished. I'm also with him on the people that do that for a job every day, they really do earn their money. They put in some LONG hours too.

Good Luck, I just had an insurance claim and I was not happy with their numbers, After making my case they did see it my way. Insurance company's today try to pay as little as possible. Good Luck again.

The trusses can and will be repaired. I do need an structural engineer to supply me with a drawing and his stamp. The repair will be made with liquid nails plywood and stainless steel screws. My son and I will be jacking up the ceiling in three locations. I will be doing the repairs myself and will work at five am each morning until completed. My Trains are packed away and placed at the side wall of the garage.

Steve:  I would suggest jacking the ceiling in as many places as possible.  Run a brace along the line where the webs meet the ceiling cords.  If you can borrow or rent some hydraulic bottle jacks or screw jacks, you can raise the ceiling at the web joint a little at a time until the webs again meet the roof cords.  

Also, and most important, don't stay up there too long each day of work.  Heat stroke can sneak up on you, and, having had it once, it's no picnic.  Be careful, and the best of luck.  I'm sure you will prevail in the end.  Bob S.

Good luck Steve, I hope it all works out.

I would not do the work myself. Hire a good construction crew to do it, you will thank me later. 

Yes  I did it many years ago when I was young but I would not even think about it today. Having a heart attack at your age and not in the best physical shape is a real issue. But whatever your decision, good luck. 

I would second the 'getting a good carpenter crew to do the work' idea. If you don't, and do the work yourself, at least get a fan up there, anything to move some air around will help. Don't stay up there too long at one time and drink lots of water.

At any rate, good luck with your repairs, be careful and I hope you are back to running trains very soon.

My son is a very good carpenter and works for a commercial and industrial construction company. His boss has given him the OK to use what ever jacks and lumber needed to get the ceiling back to were it should be. His boss came over with my son one day after work to see my work. So he knows how I feel about my Trains. Our first step is to set a bench mark by pulling a string across the roof were the sag is. I spoke with my engineer as to the three locations to jack it up.We all agree that SLOW and EASY is what we won't to do. I laid out a two foot square showing were the slop starts 95.5 in.that being the 8ft. ceiling 1/2in. sheetrock. The low point is 93in. I will get this done.It's become a challenge and I will go at it with all I have left in this old worn out body. 

Let me take a moment to just say thank you to all you gentlemen who have help make getting through this nightmare a lot more bearable with all the information you have supplied me with. I would also like to thank the men who oversea this forum for allowing this conversation to continue even when Trains are not always the main subject.

We all agree that SLOW and EASY is what we won't to do.

I'm sure you were going to say want there.  

You don't want to move the structure too much in a single move or you'll create additional issues.  I had to replace the wooden fir posts in my garage with steel columns as the wood columns were "breathing" with the seasons.  The expansion and contraction was causing issues with the space above (my office and workshop!).  I spent several weeks with the lally columns jacking about 1/8" every other day for two weeks to get the ceiling level, then installed the permanent columns.  Since installing the 4" steel columns, no more movement and cracking plaster.

Steve:  Were you able to start today?  If you did, how is it going?  Bob

Steve the major concern that i would have doing it myself would be if there was a problem at a later date such as a heavy snowfall would the insurance company say because you repaired it yourself and since you are not a professional would they decline any coverage? i have dealt with several companies that look for any out so they don't have to pay the claim. you may want something in writing from them, just a thought.

Good point on future insurance claims, didn't think of that.

Best of luck to you. Please keep us updated. We want to see those trains running again.