TMCC Crane Car - help!!

Well I can tell you what it's not...the radio board.  Replaced that without helping.  Mine does the same thing although the cab rotates and the front light responds.  My next step is the $100 motor driver board.  Waiting for a Lionel open house to order it 1/2 off.  Meanwhile it sits without the cab until that time.

Hi Guys

 The first thing I would check is, the Legacy remote must be in CAB1 mode 

to program a TMCC crane car. If it's in any other mode it won't work 

Alex

That sounds ominous!

Good luck.

Try what others suggest.  It never hurts to try.  If all else fails then see post 2.

Been there done that got the book.

Thanks Alex - yes it is/was in TMCC mode

I'm working on one now pretty much with the same issue. I guess i will have to replace the main

driver board too. I tried everything and nothing works.

Thanks

Alex

I'd be tempted to change out the triacs or whatever they are on the board for a few dollars and see if that's it...since the board costs $100.

I'd listen to Chuck, before you go for the expensive solution, try the drivers.  You guys are making me afraid of using mine.

If you are comfortable with soldering...  Go for it.  The larger components would be worth a shot and fairly easy to try.  May take that route myself.

The two TO-220 packages are the actual motor drivers, you can probably get replacements from Digikey or Mouser.  I'm not opening mine to see what part they are, can someone that already has it apart tell me what's on those two parts?

Tonight I can tell you when I get home.

MartyE/GRJ/Alex - it looks as if there might be a solution that won't break the bank.

Any tips on removing the crane shell - I'm frightened to even turn the thing on it's side in case I end up strangling myself with all that string!

I secured the stings but I also hung it over the edge of my layout and removed the screws w/o turning it over.  Seemed to work.  I just unlocked the CAB rotation and turned and unscrewed.  A little time consuming but less than restringing.

Make SURE you don't leave slack in the lines!  You'll only do that once and then you'll learn the lesson, I can testify to that first hand!

Thanks Marty/GRJ - does the shell just lift off after the screws in the base are removed?

If I remember correctly all but the antenna lead connected to the flap on the shell.  Be careful with that.

The TO220 packages are the voltage regulators.  The motor drivers are the 20 pin ICs with the SDK3504 label.  I know, I just redesigned this board

The OP concern:  I think you will find the motor driver board CRAN-C01 is your problem.

Well that probably kills that idea.  LOL!  I hope you made it more robust!  And are the boards interchangeable between old and new?

Yes, but some connector changes as I combined the Radio and the Motor driver into one PCB that mounts in the same position as the original motor driver PCB.  I am hoping it is more robust as well!!

Thanks again Jon, nice to have the actual data.  That was the reason I was fishing for the label on the TO-220 parts, to see what they were.

Sounds like a new board is in the wind.

If you bought the new Legacy board for your crane, does that make it respond to Legacy commands like the new one?

Admittedly a small sampling, but I wonder if the IC is up to the task if it has quit. I did wonder, when we thought it was the TO-220, how you could wreck that.

That still is an easy fix if it is a standard chip.  If it is flashed with code then it is a new board.

Jon, Do you have part number?  IS it a standard chip?  G

This cluster of driver board failures seems a bit odd to me, especially in light of Jon's efforts designed to make the board more robust.

Getting back to my crane - would a motor driver board failure knock out the lights too or am I looking at having to replace additional components?

Whoa guys what great information you've all posted here. I was in my shop all day and missed all of this.GGG i'm getting a flashing green light inside the crane, this means the main driver board is no good ?  Please bear with me if this has been answered above, I'm exhausted lol

Alex

Removing the shell is quite easy, just the screws on the underside, be very careful with the antenna. Removed the two small screws on the antenna plate before taking the shell off

Alex

Alex, Jon is going got have to answer that I have not worked on one.  Marty, that looks like a specialty chip.

MTH uses a lot of generic opamp type chips so repairs can be done with a new chip.  I think Lionel uses a lot of chips with code.  So you need to have the chip and the code.

That chip requires a flash code.   So I think it will be a new board, unless Lionel refurbishes them.   G

This forum (and it's members) is a fantastic resource for knowledge based on experience, intellect and ability - I've never known anything like this.

The Motor Driver IC is L293DD, printed on the chip.  The MC68HC908 is the processor and is programmed.  I am not redesigning because I thought the current board is not robust.  The reason for the redesign is the MC68HC908 processor is obsolete.  I changed it to a Microchip part.

This thread has me wondering what is failing on the existing design.  I did not set out to fix anything in particular, just make it possible to manufacture newer cranes.  I will check in with our CS folks to see if the failures are common.  If so, I may revisit the architecture.

Maybe It would be good to get a few failed boards from folks here for analysis.  I will reach out by posting on this thread if this makes sense.  The new board won't be ready for a while, and won't be 100% plug compatible.  However, I believe it is within the capabilities of folks here to rewire and replace the PCB if I choose to enlist some help from the fine folks on the forum.  No promises, it may not be practical.

There are 4 motors, there are too few of the TO-220's to be motor drivers   Could not resist a good ribbing GRJ!  You are usually right.

The Legacy crane only responds to Cab-1 style commands.  The boom car, not so.  But you can't buy the new crane board anyways(at least for a long time), and it won't be plug compatible due to the changes I had to make.

When I pull mine I'll ship it to you.  One day it worked, next day not so much.

Jon, I guess I mis read the post when comparing stickers and Location in Marty's pictures.

So if the crane receives commands and the only issue is motor function, replacing L293DD may fix it?

So Marty and maybe Alex's boards may be repairable.  G

Jon, I just figured that the To-220 chips multiplexed the motors.   Or maybe I didn't think that through.  I'd have looked up the other chips, but I didn't know what they were under the label.

Thanks for the info, interesting to hear the back-story for some of this stuff.

I wonder if perhaps a motor issue is taking the boards out, motor shorted or perhaps stalled?  I suppose before throwing in the towel, you could try replacing one or both of the L293DD chips.  The chips are fairly cheap, less then $4/ea.  By tracing the motors out, you may be able to figure out which of the two drivers are controlling the motors in question.  The good news is those are not the real tiny parts that make them more difficult to solder.

Might have missed it, have an early one. Which run have the boards that are failing?

Who has a broken one and a scope to look at the chip motor driver inputs on the L293DD when trying to operate? Or maybe a multimeter looking for about 3 vdc or more when trying to run a motor. Careful not to short pins with a probe...

Thanks, I will see if I can figure it out. 

Do you want me to send you mine too?

Maybe Lionel can offer a discount on replacement boards to aid your research.

See my comments above...