TMCC signal won't work.

Up front I am not an expert on TMCC.

I will assume all your other engines are running correctly via TMCC control. The following is based on this assumption.

While you have the tender shell off, please, if you haven't done so already, make sure any and all card to card connections, and cable to card connections, are well made, nothing is loose.

Was the antenna soldered to the metal shell, or to a handrail that protruded through the shell? The antenna must be isolated from the track or the engine/tender won't be able to receive TMCC. If the antenna was actually soldered to the metal shell itself, then the metal shell has to be isolated from frame/wheels. If the antenna is soldered to a handrail the protrudes through the shell, you have to make sure the handrail is isolated from the metal shell.

You mentioned you just had the wire sticking out of the tender. I would get a piece of wire (gauge of wire not important) at least double the length of the antenna wire in the tender which I would temporarily solder to the end of the tender's antenna wire. Hold this wire in your hand off the track, or loop it from over tender and engine. Try the TMCC control again. If this works, I would say the engine/tender's electronics are working for TMCC, and you have an antenna problem to solve. If operation with this longer antenna does not improve TMCC operation, the I suspect your electronics.

Just for reference and edification, I have attached an article from a past issue of O Gauge Magazine about TMCC transmission.

Thank you!!! Yes, all my other engines run fine. The antenna was soldered to the tender shell. I tested the tender shell to the wheels, and it seems to be isolated. I will try what you said with the antenna wire. I am pretty sure I have a antenna problem.

Thanks for your response!!!

I’m guessing other engines run correctly on the layout. Has this engine run fine in the past ?

I’m not that familiar with 3rd rail steamers. I learned a bit watching one of Norm’s videos that shows the factory EOB install. Looks like the chassis along with the shell are isolated from the rails by using some sort of insulator at the axle and sideframe. The outside rail is picked up by wheel wipers to run the electronics.

https://youtu.be/ISIwJT9ZG30?si=izqHoIuADMj32tM6

Besides the antenna, you could have an R2LC with a marginal TMCC receiver.  This can be diagnosed by simply swapping the R2LC board from the ailing locomotive with a working locomotive and seeing if a different R2LC.

Typically, an insulated tender shell is a very good antenna, so if it's truly insulated from the outside rails, I'd be looking at other causes.

John is right on. I had the same issue, replaced the R2LC and all is well.

Having the same issue with a Lionel k-4 #6-38025

Swapped out the R2LC Board with one that i know is working and still having the issue,

Any help would be greatly appreciated

@Choo-Choo Johnny posted:

Having the same issue with a Lionel k-4 #6-38025

Swapped out the R2LC Board with one that i know is working and still having the issue,

Any help would be greatly appreciated

Need to know more for diagnostics. Were you able to program the engine with the replacement board? Did the locomotive acknowledge your programming ID number set?…..did you identify the engine as a TMCC engine? ( cab 2, you can accidentally have it set as a legacy engine ) lastly, what symptoms is your engine experiencing?

Pat

Thanks Pat

it works well in conventional

When using it in command it still starts up when you apply power you can still program it when this happens, you still get an idle sound and can hear the fan in the smoke unit start you can control the direction and speed

but no chuff l, no whistle bell or crew talk sounds and no shutdown

Well, you've narrowed it down now.  You're talking about a sound issue and not the TMCC signal at all.  This has all the earmarks of a problem with the serial data.  If this is really the TAS motherboard, I'd suspect the Railsounds board is not seeing the serial data.

This sounds like an IR signal issue, …….possibly something as simple as a misaligned pair of drawbars, or a broken wire on the IR drawbar bar(s) …..never rule out the tender, I’ve seen broken IR wires on them too,…..an acid test would be to try that tender on another locomotive with IR, …needs to be a TMCC engine…..if the tender works in command with another engine, that‘ll narrow it down to the engine side…..then definitely start looking at the wires on the drawbar……you can look at the IR sensor while it’s powered up with a cell phone camera, ….leave the tender off….

Pat

With the cell phone camera?

what will I see if it’s operational?

@Choo-Choo Johnny posted:

With the cell phone camera?

what will I see if it’s operational?

A purplish glow,……some cameras don’t work for that, so don’t take it for gospel,….

Pat

Thanks Pat

didn’t see anything from the loco side

but… I used another tmcc motor and it appears to be working

good call I appreciate it

now to figure out the problem in the tender

Here is a camera test: turn on the camera and aim it at the IR end of your tv remote.  Press the Power button.  It you see a fast blinking light, your camera will see the drawbar glowing purple, like @harmonyards said.  Also a good test for the batteries in your remote!

Awesome thank you

@Choo-Choo Johnny posted:

Thanks Pat

didn’t see anything from the loco side

but… I used another tmcc motor and it appears to be working

good call I appreciate it

now to figure out the problem in the tender

I’m confused John, help me help you, ……you used another TMCC motor??…So what exactly did you do to determine a fault in the tender?

Pat

I took a tender from another tmcc locomotive and hooked it up to the locomotive I was having trouble with

it worked great with no problem,

I swapped out the ir board in the tender and now the locomotive is working fine,

I ordered another ir board from Lionel to replace the one I stole from my other tender

if that doesn’t get you confused I can try harder

lol

but thank you