Traction Tire Observation

It's funny, I have 3 Lionel engines from the early 70's that still have their original traction tires on them.  And believe me they have seen many miles...it must be something with the material being used today.  I notice them cracking fairly quickly and coming off not too long after.

Wonder how much research has gone in to determining the best elastomer to use for the traction tire service. Would not think that cost of material is very important because of the small quantities involved.

 

Could this make for a good cottage industry business like smoke fluid?

I have dozens - same thing.  I have replaced the tires on my 8352 Santa Fe, but that one gets an extraordinary amount of track time and pulls long trains.

RESEARCH !!! - I can't image any of the manufacturers spending any money on traction tire research or design.

 

Why can't they sell a all rubber wheel hard enough to stand up to the track and give good traction??

 

Or how about just making their metal wheels with a permanent rubber surface like we make when we glue our replacement tires to the metal wheels with Super Glue?? That method seems to work.

 

It's not rocket science.

When I spin a traction tire on a steamer, I reach into my parts box and replace it with a diesel traction tire. Its a pain in rear to get it on the larger drivers, but its not coming off again.

 

Interesting.

I am perhaps not the best judge.

I've only been in this for under 10 years.

The only Traction Tires I've replaced were caused by a power train problem on My Big Boy. Since the motor was replaced, no issues. And I run them a lot.

(Well, until I moved, for now I'm just running the Christmas loop, gotta rebuild)

Has anyone tried STEWART PRODUCTS 2505 tires?

I like what J daddy said to a certain extent. It would seem to me that maybe next time I develop a problem traction tire, maybe I should try the next size smaller. I probably have the right size for anything I have in stock, sooner or later I'll need a certain size I don't have via attrition. I'll not be afraid to try it. Unless I throw a railking subway tire! What then? Bullfrog snot? (is that what it's called?)

I've only had one engine throw a traction tire, and it did it marvelously.  It came loose and right into the gears it went, freezing the locomotive before I even knew what happened.  One of these days I'll take it all apart and fix it, poor EP-5.

 

I had a couple others that when I pulled them out to test (after buying them, used) it looked like a tire was coming off, or was slipping/loose, but didn't have time to replace them so I put them away.  When I did finally have time to work on the engine (each had other problems too) the tires then seemed solid and in place.  They seem to be rather fickle things.

Interesting.  I haven't had any traction tires come off Williams locos or older/traditional Lionel locos either, but then I don't have that many Williams and I don't run the older Lionels too often. 

 

Frankly I can't imagine there would be much difference due to manufacturer.  In my case I'm pretty certain it is weight and power, not who built it.  Nearly all the locos I've lost traction tires on are big Lionel and MTH steamers - heavy scale steam locos with really big motors and a lot of weight on the drivers that are considerably larger than Williams semi-scale steamers.  I often challenge them with 30+ cars to pull (up slight grades, too).  I've never done that many cars with any Williams steamer - mine are smaller semi-scale and I run them with trains less than half that length.  

 

I also can't recall losing many traction tires on diesel no matter who makes them - diesels with their ABS bodies don't weight as much and when I pull a big train I have at least two and often up to four powered units so there isn't that much tension on the traction tires.  

 

I think, at least for me, that is the reason.

 

I have two locos I just left traction tires off - an MTH Y6B and a Vision CC2.  Both work and pull fine with just a little frog snot instead. 

The point I was trying to make in my original post is that traction tires can be made to stay on, as evidenced by the fact that none of my Williams engines ever had a traction tire come off, even with lots and lots of run time. 

 

Maybe MTH and Lionel should examine the Williams engines to see why they stay on whereas the MTH and Lionel traction tires come off frequently.

 

Earl Staley

I have 2 Williams brass engines, and the tires rotted off both. I got replacement ones from Williams, and those rotted off after a year. Neither engine was even run with the new tires.

I don't have any traction tires or magna traction, and pull anything I want with my all diesel fleet.

Hi Earl and Happy Holidays..

I have a question…Did the original traction tires on your  problem engines spin off also?  Are you just having problems with the replacements?  I think running an Engine without traction tires would ruin something?

K.C

This is an interesting lot of posts, all.  I've had 2 Lionel MPC diesels wobble from loose tires.  Replaced them with a layer of Permatex Ultra Black from an auto parts store, as suggested by someone on this forum.  A heavy Lionel steamer I have is also now slipping on curves, but the tires seem firm on the wheels!?  I've never had to clean oil off of tires before.

 

My own curmudgeonly opinion is that tires are a cheap substitute for Magne

Traction.  (After all Marx used them in the Fifties, and Marx was nothing if not 'economical").

Yes, it was the new traction tires that came off.

 

I don't think running the engines without the traction tires would harm anything unless you ran the engines 24/7 for 10,000 years.  Then you might see some slight wear on the track.

 

Earl Staley

How has that worked out in terms of longevity?  Are you seeing good results over time?

Running without traction tires will cause excessive wear on the groved wheels. I have seen this happen.  I have heard of people using the bullfrog snot with mixed results.  It seems to be hard to ge it flat with the wheel.  It seems to me that if you run the engine and use a X-acto knife to cut the excess of it should work.  I have also had sucess with using slightley smaller tires.  Calumet , I think is their name,  made some clear tires for O-gauge, don't know how well they work though.

Good Info!
I just wondered if they sit and spin (no traction) if that would ruin your track?




K.C.

K.C.Jones: By your photo, it loks as though it's a 2-rail problem.

I have had the same issues with MTH traction tires. A best guess if that don't have the compression required to stay put under a heavy load which defeats the idea of having tires in the first place. Williams ( my experience with Williams) seems as bulletproof as an engine can get. An engine that cannot run as intended is simply a waste of money and time and I don't like the odds nor taking bets on other brands based on what I have read here whether its quality or warranty issues.

I am a proponent of using silicone sealant to replace traction tires.  Contrary to Lee's experience with diesels, it is my Premier E8s that threw the most tires and caused me to switch to silicone.

.....

Dennis

Earl,

You got an interesting topic going....again.

 

There seems to be a lot of problems with these things. Perhaps as you say, Lionel should 

study Williams or.....better yet, why can't this fine group of r/r forumnites take it on and 

find a solution? 

 

We we could, you know, we could.