Trains and fires

My Father inlaw melted some carpet fibers one year with is Post war Hudson.  He purchased all new FasTrack the next year.

But you know... tell your beloved, You are not supposed to run that stuff and then leave the house.  You should be nearby in case there is an issue.

Have Fun.

Ron

@1drummer posted:

I found the 14 most common causes for house fires-amazingly Model trains is not in the top 14.

It's not even in the top 500.

It wouldn't hurt to inspect your K-Line heavyweight cars to assure the insulated washers are in place.  This 'factory recall' added an insulated washer between the spring and the coupler arm plate. John

So...as can be seen in the YouTube link

hardwood floor

top 500-did you find a source?

I only have a few K-Line...and I’ll check

With our modern trains being command control, it's easy to forget to turn off track power when no trains are running. I remember reading a post where the screw that attaches the drawbar to a steam engine came out and the small coil spring under the draw bar grounded against the center rail, became red hot like a toaster wire, and started a fire on the person's layout. I immediately checked all my steamers and sure enough found some loose. As for myself, I will no longer use those adapters sold on Ebay, that adapt from a barrel jack to two screw post for adapting a brick. They cannot handle the amps a brick is capable of supplying to a layout, and melt like butter when amps are up for a long time. Cut one open and you will be shocked to see the internal wires going to the screw post are like a hair.

It has been suggested more than once to keep a fire extinguisher near the layout.  Not a bad idea.  I do know that on occasion I have walked away from the layout with the throttles off, but forgot to kill the accessory power.  Then when I go back to the basement I find the water tower still bubbling!  I think maybe when I get a more permanent layout built i will but a master kill switch by the basement stairs.

Wheels and rollers have always sparked as long as can remember. Never heard of a fire from that? A shorted transformer could easily burnup

There have been fires reported over the years, frequently track shorts or poor connections heating up.  Unless you have something very flammable around the track, it's hard to imagine the normal sparks you see causing an issue.  I will say, I did hear of an incident where using Isopropyl Alcohol in a track cleaning car caught fire from track sparks, that makes sense.  I also remember a picture here a few years ago with a big black hole where a layout caught fire due to some wiring issues.

I always add inline fuses to the leads from all transformers. You never know.

From the very little I know I would suggest incorporating your wife in the Xmas train decisions. She wanted to be involved by buying more cars. Maybe she wants to be more included?

ChiTown Steve...trains are a love/hate relationship with my wife.
She calls it the other woman😁

Also the fact that I buy used, with money from scrap wire and odd jobs, it bothers her-mind you, we ain’t hurting for $$$, —gets under her skin.  

For the record-she doesn’t want more cars-just more track😁.  
But I can assure you both will occur🚂.

I run on my MISC a Z4000-and the breakers are extremely sensitive-even the slightest of issues causes it to shut down. But I may add fuses  

https://youtu.be/eVRoe90r20E

Well good luck with everything. Your layout and Christmas trains look great.

This sparking issue reminds me of when my sister and I were young (back in the 1950s/60s).  The train was set up around the Christmas tree on top of a white sheet.  We would drag the metal icicles (from the Christmas tree) across the 3 rail tracks while the Marx train was running.  Oh, what fun!  Even more entertaining with the lights out.  Lots of laughter and no burns or fires.
D.

In my younger days my brother and I would cook the insulation of  some power feed wires after a crash! Left some scorch marks on the sheet underneath the Christmas layout as well. I was raised by a single mom who suffered from a dreaded disease I call, “Get up and go to work“! There were many times my older brother and I had to occupy our time after school until she got home. Between trains, BB guns, and occasional fireworks, I have no clue how we made it!

I had an Atlas switch almost set my trains on fire.  Burned half way through my 2" foam insulation before I fond the correct one. (I had 25 Atlas switches at the time)  The switch machines are of a very poor design and burn out consistently, this along with other problems caused me to replace all the Atlas switches with Ross.

My wife is incredibly paranoid, it drives me nuts. She worries about everything. A few years ago, I had a brand new MTH house with the LED lights ignite right after I powered it up. Burned up all the wiring in the house, and singed the indoor/outdoor carpet that covers the layout. Thankfully, my wife and kids were out when it happened. If she had been home, I never would have heard the end of it.

The train store gave me a new house.

Wow

Were these turnouts left on or was it an immediate occurrence?

Any idea why the wiring burnt up the house?

@1drummer posted:

Any idea why the wiring burnt up the house?

Bob at Alloway Trains and Things felt there was a problem with a connection in the house, but things in there were pretty burnt up. He seemed sure it wasn’t anything I did. It was one of those that has a regular light inside, with the LED Christmas lights outside.

Bottom line is never leave layout unattended. I think I will go buy a new extinguisher as mine is old

@Hartman posted:

This sparking issue reminds me of when my sister and I were young (back in the 1950s/60s).  The train was set up around the Christmas tree on top of a white sheet.  We would drag the metal icicles (from the Christmas tree) across the 3 rail tracks while the Marx train was running.  Oh, what fun!  Even more entertaining with the lights out.  Lots of laughter and no burns or fires.
D.

Hey D.,

  When  I was a youngster (1960's) I had a shiny aluminum flashlight that sometimes would fall on the tracks...talk about sparks!

Tom

Since we all have N95 masks would it be ok to use asbestos carpeting?

Alan

OK for you Alan, but I ain't coming to your place to run trains!

A couple layout/train fire thoughts:

I did a forum search with the word "fire". The only layout/train caused fire that I could find was posted in 2013. Long story short, it was built on foam (for the weight) a switch track shorted, heated up, melted and set the foam on fire, it then spread

If I recall correctly, A K-line faulty passenger car wiring design a dozen years or so ago caused those cars to spark and burn - anyone else remember this?

Low voltage or not, several years ago I was investigating why trains were derailing on a switch track and my gold bracelet laid across the rails for just a minute. It caused link shaped burns on my wrist. I could imagine that if there was a dead short like this on a cotton topped Christmas layout a fire could start

The K-Line recall was for the early, silhouette-figured heavyweights in the early 1990s.  Jim Barrett (RIP) did a Backshop article about the repair- I think there was a coil spring in the truck/coupler set that was too lightweight for the current and would overheat and turn red-hot, which needed to be replaced with a heavier spring.

Here is a link to the federal recall page and a New York Times article on the subject:

https://www.cpsc.gov/Recalls/1...-recall-model-trains

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/1...of-model-trains.html

David

Jim Z,

”Between trains, BB guns, and occasional fireworks, I have no clue how we made it!”

In High School we added hot rods and girls!  Somehow we survived.  Thank goodness the trains were waiting for us.

John

@David98 posted:

The K-Line recall was for the early, silhouette-figured heavyweights in the early 1990s

Thanks David.

Funny how time compresses as one gets older.  My dozen years or so estimate proved that point.

@Lionelski posted:

A couple layout/train fire thoughts:

Low voltage or not, several years ago I was investigating why trains were derailing on a switch track and my gold bracelet laid across the rails for just a minute. It caused link shaped burns on my wrist. I could imagine that if there was a dead short like this on a cotton topped Christmas layout a fire could start

This is why Mechanics don't wear wedding bands at work. Period. A car battery (let alone a truck battery) will provide several hundred amps through a gold (or silver) band in a short-circuit and will amputate a finger in a couple seconds.

1drummer.

This occurred during train operation, that's why it took a while to find the offending switch machine.  As i said the Atlas machines are of poor design and can hang up even if never used.  When they hang up the coils gets very hot melting the plastic and anything under it.

Atlas designed a new momentary switch controller for this reason, however, I don't think it corrected the problem, and may have caused some additional ones of its own as there no longer made.

I don't remember the back story with these trains. My friend eventually bought them. Not sure if the fire started on the layout itself or not, but it did take out the trains. It does happen, but like everything else in life you need to take precautions to be as safe as possible.

@NJCJOE posted:

I don't remember the back story with these trains. My friend eventually bought them. Not sure if the fire started on the layout itself or not, but it did take out the trains. It does happen, but like everything else in life you need to take precautions to be as safe as possible.

Yikes!  Kinda amazing that the paint burned off but the roundhouse sections and cars are still basically straight.  Any plastic cars would have been gone for sure, and a good chance that diecast steamer castings may have cracked.  I hope whatever people were involved got out okay.

There was a major fire at a model railroad museum in Long Island NY a few years ago.  One of the transformers,  I think it was a poster ZW that caught fire.

Guys....stop over thinking and just use common sense, much more important things to worry about...so enjoy your trains  be safe.....joe

If you have something heating up in a dead short, you don't have the right circuit protection. I have 5 amp breakers on each line that will melt a 26 awg wire without tripping. Since I have added 10 amp Airpax magnetic breakers, that same wire trips them instantly. All my buildings are wired with 24 awg, as are most accessories, all at 12 vdc. I have them on 3 amp breakers, but they never trip because the PC power supply trips lightning fast with any short, even with smaller wires. I do keep an extinguisher in the room, and the whole layout turns off with one switch.

@geysergazer posted:

This is why Mechanics don't wear wedding bands at work. Period. A car battery (let alone a truck battery) will provide several hundred amps through a gold (or silver) band in a short-circuit and will amputate a finger in a couple seconds.

That's only one reason why....mechancal amputation also frequently a possibility with rings.

Just one other thing, I disconnect all power from my layout when not in use.

I have my Z-4000, Z-1000 and DCS TIU WI-FI on a power strip

which I turn off, after I shut down my Z-4000

And I only leave the train room to get a beer -which is still in the basement-or drain a beer-which is upstairs.

If I know I’ll be back in few minutes-I don’t shut down

but if I’m unsure-I power off.

logic and responsibility are my only guidelines.

sadly-too many tales of woe

so not showing my wife😁

I put my first train and fast track on carpeting. One car derailed and caused a short and the feeder wire insulation from the transformer melted and then the carpet started to burn and smoke. Quickly put it out. The short protection on in the transformer didn’t kick in.

I was glad I was attending to my trains at the time or else it might’ve been a disaster.

@1drummer posted:

I have my Z-4000, Z-1000 and DCS TIU WI-FI on a power strip

which I turn off, after I shut down my Z-4000

For everyone.  (If you are using just a power distribution strip, then this is not an issue.)  The older surge protection power strips MUST be replaced every 5 years according to a report I read.  For the newer ones with the red and green lights, I have not found any necessary replacement info yet.  A reporter in Pittsburgh several years back came home to her home on fire.  The investigation showed that the older style surge protection power strip was the fault.  I replace mine every so often as I don't want that problem and I have all the newer style.  I have 5 throughout the house and it costs about $200 every time to replace them all at once.  The cost hurts, but not as much as a fire.
Dennis

One good idea I read about years ago is to have a master power switch for all layout – related outlets coupled with a pilot light at the entrance/exit to the train room, so nothing gets left on by mistake.