I've got a lot of Lionel & MTH. So far would like to USA made products going foward . O gauge! Thanks
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There is scratch building. Just remember to source your parts domestically...if possible!
There are a bunch of kit makers in the USA still. Locos are the hardest to come by. One I know of is Stevenson Preservation models who does some steamer kits. I don't know if sources his stuf in the USA or not. Another one is P&D hobbies who I think still has kits for diesel F units. Unfortunately his brass trucks were source in China. He told me about them once. It seems he put out a request for bids to make a few hundred sets of EMD trucks. He said he only got one response domesatically and they told him they could not start for 18-24 months. someone gave him the name and number of a chinese outfit. He Faxed a drawing to them and asked for quote and some details. He got shipment in the mail with in a few weeks that had a quote and a sample truck. He was amanzed.
Wow, if you want modern items then that’s a tough one. For made in USA you could always go pre or post war. I’m sure you are aware of that. Keep us posted on any findings. Good luck.
About 50% of the trains that run on my layout are USA made. Most of my buying has been of P/W, MPC and Lionel LLC product. I stopped buying most Chinese made product long ago. If the industry wants me back as a customer they need to start manufacturing again in the USA. I would be happy to pay a bit more for better quality product as necessary, in order to support the American worker. We once manufactured everything here and it was affordable. We can do it again.
Man do I agree with you Dennis. I'm tired of getting product that is low quality and has to be returned to dealers or the importers for repair. We need to support the USA workers. I have said many times on this forum I would Gladys pay more for a USA made product.
John and Dennis,
I have said the same thing several times on the Forum. I would be willing to pay more for trains made in the USA. I'm sure there are many Americans who have lost their jobs in the past few months who would be grateful to have a job assembling model trains.
MELGAR
Made in the U.S.A does not necessarily equate to quality. I have to laugh at folks who think the quality will miraculously be better if trains are made here.
The only QC advantage is easier access to the factory.
Just for additional discussion, when I see people (Dennis, John and Melgar), write about the desire to buy Made in the USA product AND willing to pay a “bit” more… just what is a bit?
Again, just for discussion, and to give the manufactures a little insight, if a current production/listed GP9 locomotive is selling for 420 plus shipping, how much of a “bit” more would you be willing to pay if this was made in the US?
Also, for the record, Lionel does have a selection of freight that is made in the US, can I assume that you all have purchased some of these items?
Charlie
At least we can buy USA made switches, track! Ross Custom Switches!! 
I have one Ross swith; 2 pieces Ross 10 inch straight track.
I still buy a lot of good old made in the USA Weaver off the B. But Lionel did get the Weaver American tooling when Joe sold the business. If Lionel can start to produce them on a regular basis they would be made in American except for the trucks.....Paul 2
Ok guys, not going to happen. As Marty said just because it is made here does not mean QC will better. Charlie mentioned how much are you willing to spend for made in America locomotives? $100,$200,$300 or more
Mike wolf was quoted if he moved production back here to expect a 35-to 45 percent raise in prices. Are you willing to pay that price?
Dave
Lionel is making the old weaver cars here now at cheaper prices then the Chinese junk. I would not pay 35 % more for an engine but may for cars at a higher price.
A 35% increase on a Lionel Legacy articulated steamer would be right at $2,700 before any discounts. Thats a lot of bucks for an electric train engine.
I don't remember any prices dropping when production moved offshore...
@MartyE posted:Made in the U.S.A does not necessarily equate to quality. I have to laugh at folks who think the quality will miraculously be better if trains are made here.
The only QC advantage is easier access to the factory.
Hi Marty,
My experience with Lionel during the Richard Kughn and the Richard Kughn/Neil Young era could not have been better. Whether the quality was better, I can't effectively evaluate. A giant difference, IMHO, was the devotion and dedication to customer service. I had about 4 or 5 items -- some more than 10 years old -- that I personally delivered to Lionel for repair, because, I wanted the trains to be repaired properly. The trains were properly repaired, carefully packed and shipped back to my home with no shipping charges. A big shock was that there was no invoice for the repairs! None. This same process was repeated on several occasions by me, and, by Lionel, during the Richard Kughn era.
Particularly with so many hobby shops, unfortunately, having closed, finding quality repair services is a challenge. As a result, having a manufacturer that makes a commitment to properly repairing and servicing their products is paramount. That's a "top down" commitment to repair and service that is required.
On a side note, one of my friends and neighbors, an engineer specializing in high end, technical product sales and support, had Lionel as a client -- when Lionel made products in the United States.
I deal in O scale, not O gauge so my thoughts may differ.
I would love to see USA model train products; however, I think items made in the Philippines using a controlled environment are the best quality so far with other consumer products.
I decorated some Lion Scale cars from N.C. and the quality was horrible along with inconsistencies in the reefer paint.
New trains made with-in the last 5 years are priced out of the market. I don’t think making them in the USA will be the answer.
I am very selective now on items from China. If I can’t find it elsewhere, or its not a MUST HAVE, I avoid buying it. Train companies I suppose will also take a small hit as well on this principal.
"Made in USA." It depends on precisely what you mean. If you would be happy with "Assembled in USA" that is at least possible but good luck attracting the necessary capital for a small enterprise with zero mass-market potential. If assembly here isn't good enough, in this age of Globalization it would be next-to-impossible to manufacture a complex widget containing electronics from parts sourced only in USA.
IMHO.....
Made in America, think of all the different components that go into an engine, circut board, motor, wire, lights etc. Couldn't be done and be competitive.
Assembled in America using foreign components possible, but thats not really made in America.
Buy older lionel products as they are still great items if you want made in America. I do. Just make sure you service them correctly for a long life.
BTW of my several hundred engines that I have owned that were made overseas I only had 2 that had problems that required service.
I thought that with the MSRP in the current catalogs that all of the trains were being made here in the United States!
I buy the best products regardless of where they are made. I had/have no problem with products made in China, Brazil, Swaziland of anywhere else for that matter, if they are quality and value. The delays, the IP theft, after legitimate concerns with China, but I think a majority of the quality problem that we have with Chinese-made locos was their customers' fault: Lionel, MTH, and others pushing too hard for lowest-possible cost.
No matter where it is made, a product can be "cheap" if the maker pushed to hard at times at times for ever lower prices, and as a result ended up with vendors that could not/would not delivery on time, or build quality products: you can blame the workman for lousy quality but at some point you have to accept the blame for hiring a lazy moron in the first place.
The simple fact is that US-made locos will carry a substantial production-cost penalty for being made in the USA. My worry would actually be that this would force a manufacturer to work even harder to "take out cost" to keep their retail price competitive: even more pressure to push things too far with quality.
According to a review I just read, Lionel's recent Lionmaster LC+2.0 Big Boy was made in Korea. It got a stellar review and mine is a jewel: nothing wrong with the quality of that foreign-made loco - mine is simply fantastic - one of the best locos I have ever bought. List price was somewhere around $1100 - and a major jump upward in price for semi-scale locos by Lionel - a fact the review remarked about. But I think Lionel did it right: they found a good, quality supplier and agreed to pay them enough to get the job done right, and fairlry on time, and if that meant it would cost more by the time it got to stores shelves, so be it. Good show Lionel!!
That said, I imagine that loco would probably be priced around $1500 or more if made in the US, so I am very happy with how Lionel did it.
@david1 posted:Mike wolf was quoted if he moved production back here to expect a 35-to 45 percent raise in prices. Are you willing to pay that price?
Dave
Yes, I am willing to pay that price. It's worth it to me to see the jobs in the US. I'll just have to be satisfied with fewer new trains.
MELGAR
@MELGAR posted:Yes, I am willing to pay that price. Its worth it to me to see the jobs in the US. I'll just have to be satisfied with fewer new trains.
MELGAR
Yes their are a few that Can afford almost any price increase but guys like you Melgar are few and far between. I don't see very many willing to pay that kind of increase.
train manufacturing coming back to the USA in any big way is just a dream, a dream that died many years ago.
Dave
@david1 posted:Yes their are a few that Can afford almost any price increase but guys like you Melgar are few and far between. I don't see very many willing to pay that kind of increase.
train manufacturing coming back to the USA in any big way is just a dream, a dream that died many years ago.
Dave
I didn't say I would like to pay more. I did say that I am willing to acquire fewer new trains (for the same expenditure) if it will benefit my fellow Americans in the form of more jobs and opportunity.
MELGAR
John Pignatelli - I don't have a dog in this fight but just want to make an observation.
Although you've indicated you might be willing to pay more for USA made rolling stock, in contrast I seem to have observed a lot of recent Posts from purchasers of MENARD rolling stock raving about how cheap it is; despite the fact several people have also complained about it being of inferior quality, not in true gauge etc. I may be wrong but I'd bet it's also made overseas.
Note: I neither currently own any MENARD rolling stock nor have any desire to acquire any, as my layout and shelves are already full and I don't have room for anymore. (lol)
I've been back into this hobby almost 30 years now. Started out buying alot of LTI products and then Lionel LLC when they were still made in the US. In that time frame I purchased at least 30 if not more locos, out of all of them only had an issue with the Shay made around 1999, which I believe I was made overseas (Korea ?). So I'd say had excellent luck with the items made in that time frame. Still have most of them and many of the early TMCC locos are pretty much bullet proof.
When Legacy came out around 2008 started buying some more engines. Out of the 8 Legacy engines I've purchased, 4 of them out of the box had issues and went back to Lionel. Some of them have been back a few times to Lionel for the same problem. Biggest disappointment is the Vision Lionel Hudson, went back at least three times for the smoke unit which after 3 trips back to Lionel it still refuses to work.
Based on my experience, I think I have enough evidence to confirm that the LTI / early Lionel LLC items are more reliable than the more recent offerings.
I guess that I am one of the folk old enough to fondly remember the Lionel Michigan factory with its roots in the local community, its parts inventory, its repair capabilities, and its visitor center. I keenly felt the loss at the time and now, more than ever. Although dated technologically, my Century Club I trains for example still look, sound, and operate as originally intended without any problems a quarter century on. Current product appears to be often less sorted out in various ways. There is no substitute for the product personnel being able to walk out to the factory floor to resolve production issues. Because Lionel no longer has any personnel that know how to set up and run a train factory, getting back to that ideal is not likely .....
... however, I would settle for trains made anywhere but Communist China. Certainly, I'd like to see more production moved back to the USA, but countries of origin such as S. Korea, Taiwan, Hungary (Maerklin is made in Hungary), Japan (Kato is made there) would be preferable to the current arrangement. The CCP has been clearly revealed to not be our friend nor a friendly competitor, for that matter. What has been imported here in the past is part of the hobby's blood stream and is open for purchase, but going forward (including BTO), no more mainland Chinese-made trains. If it costs more, so be it.
Respectfully,
Bob
Bob. I agree 100%
Brent
Bob Bubeck Well said Thanks
LIONEL is making rolling stock in their North Carolina plant.
METCA's 6464/9700 sized box cars and LionScale cars are made in NC.
@pennsyfan posted:LIONEL is making rolling stock in their North Carolina plant.
METCA's 6464/9700 sized box cars and LionScale cars are made in NC.
The trucks still come from China.
Lionel is assembling rolling stock in NC. They don't have on site molding equipment.
The molding for Lion Scale is done by a US sub-contractor, assembly and decoration is then done in NC. I'm not sure where the unpainted 6464/9700 bodies come from, but unless they had new tooling cut, the 6464/9700's are most likely molded in China
Rusty
I agree completly with Bob. If it is not made here, although I wish it was. No to china. Checked all my Ho brass. All Korea . Track Kato . My wife and I are trying as best we can to limit purchases of all types from China. John
It sickens me that most our modern day o gauge trains are made in China. With the attitude it will never happen that our trains are made in America.....IT WON'T. If all of us stopped purchasing trains made in China maybe the manufactures would begin to take notice and move back to America. As long as we continue to support China trains it won't change. Will our trains cost more? For sure......But to see "Made in U.S.A." how sweet it would be. I have purchased my last China train.......IT'S TIME FOR ALL OF US TO TAKE A STAND!
@Charlie posted:Just for additional discussion, when I see people (Dennis, John and Melgar), write about the desire to buy Made in the USA product AND willing to pay a “bit” more… just what is a bit?
Again, just for discussion, and to give the manufactures a little insight, if a current production/listed GP9 locomotive is selling for 420 plus shipping, how much of a “bit” more would you be willing to pay if this was made in the US?
Also, for the record, Lionel does have a selection of freight that is made in the US, can I assume that you all have purchased some of these items?
Charlie
Are you saying Lionel's LionScale are made in the USA? As far as I know, all the other Lionel items a assembled in the USA from imported parts.
@Dwayne B posted:It sickens me that most our modern day o gauge trains are made in China. With the attitude it will never happen that our trains are made in America.....IT WON'T. If all of us stopped purchasing trains made in China maybe the manufactures would begin to take notice and move back to America. As long as we continue to support China trains it won't change. Will our trains cost more? For sure......But to see "Made in U.S.A." how sweet it would be. I have purchased my last China train.......IT'S TIME FOR ALL OF US TO TAKE A STAND!
I completely agree Dwayne,
I said basically the same thing back in 2007 or 2008 and it fell on deaf ears.
@paulp575 posted:Are you saying Lionel's LionScale are made in the USA? As far as I know, all the other Lionel items a assembled in the USA from imported parts.
Lion Scale is made from the old Weaver USA based tooling. As I recall it was mentioned the same plastics shop in Pennsylvania that contracted for Weaver is now contracted with Lionel.
Sorry, but the bulk of Lionel production is made, decorated and assembled in China.
Rusty
@Rusty Traque posted:Lionel is assembling rolling stock in NC.
Rusty
That's NOT an accurate statement. The bodies are molded in the USA, they're painted in the USA (in NC), the graphics are applied in the USA (in NC), and yes, they're assembled in NC (in the USA). Doesn't matter if the work is done in NC, VA, or PA. The subject of this thread is "Trains made in the USA". The cars referenced in the message you applied to are Made in USA, except the trucks as you pointed out.
Stu
@paulp575 posted:Are you saying Lionel's LionScale are made in the USA? As far as I know, all the other Lionel items a assembled in the USA from imported parts.
Looks like you've been given some bad information. Let me set the record straight … the statement that "other Lionel items a assembled in the USA from imported parts" is completely wrong. While the die-cast trucks are imported, everything else is Made in USA (for the LionScale line and the 6464/9700 style box cars identified as Made in USA). The "assembled in USA from imported parts" only applies because the die-cast trucks are imported, but the rest of the car is completely made in the USA.
Stu
@Dwayne B posted:If all of us stopped purchasing trains made in China maybe the manufactures would begin to take notice and move back to America.
Never gonna happen. People are already salivating over what might be in the next catalog.
The HO and N folks are still going to buy from the likes of Athearn, Atlas, Bachmann, Scale Trains, Rapido Trains, Walthers, etc.
We've seen this issue come up on several occasions. While bringing back manufacturing trains in the USA again is a nice sentiment, it is wholly unrealistic. Train manufacturers are in business to make a profit and they are manufacturing our train overseas where labor is cheaper and there are less environmental and labor regulations. If they were even able to bring their operations back to the USA (they may not even own the tooling in some instances), they would have to substantially raise their prices. Would you guys actually pay $1000 for a diesel locomotive with the same level of detail and all the tech features we've come to expect? I don't think so.
