Transformer dates

I have the Greenberg's pocket price guide and it list the transformers at the end of the pre war section on page 49, 2016 Lionel, as follows;

A made from 1921 to 1937  40, 60 watts

B made from 1916 to 1938  50, 75 watts

K made from 1913 to 1938  150, 200 watts

L made from 1913 to 1916, 1933 to 1938  50, 75 watts

N made from 1941 to 1942  50 watts

Q made from 1914 to 1915  50 watts

Q made from 1938 to 1942  75 watts

R made from 1938 to 1942  100 watts

S made from 1914 to 1917  50 watts

T made from 1914 to 1928  75, 100, 150 watts

U made from 1932 to 1933  no watts listed, Aladdin(is the only info listed)

V made from 1939 to 1942  150 watts

W made from 1932 to 1933  75 watts

Z made from 1939 to 1942 250 watts, four separate outputs( I have one of

those)

No type J transformer listed by Greenberg's.

 Hope this helps

Lee Fritz

Thank you, that's exactly what I needed!

-Eric Siegel

Your welcome Eric.

I have old Lionel instruction manuals somewhere but can't find one right now and that may give some more light on the transformers made back then.

Lee Fritz

PHILLYREADING, Thank you for that list of old transformer info. I have some of those items.

Don't know why the "B" transformer has an oddball female connector plug for narrow prongs.

Type J Transformer specs:

Type J - 100w
Input voltage - 90-250v
Frequency - 40-133 cycles (Hertz)
Output - 4-13v

Produced late '30s

Ron M

Ron, all the information I have seen on the type J says that the input voltage will be set by the store where it is sold.  I have never seen any information on how the input voltage is set. There is a cover on the top held on with screws, which I have never taken off, that I assume has connections under it. Do you have any information on how the input voltage was set?  I assume it was by reconnecting the primary taps, but I do not know for sure.   Thanks.

ron m posted:

Type J Transformer specs:

Type J - 100w
Input voltage - 90-250v
Frequency - 40-133 cycles (Hertz)
Output - 4-13v

Produced late '30s

Ron M

That's a throwback to the days before 120v60hz was standard. Suppose it was also supplied for export. Photo from internet:

Ace posted:

ron m posted:

Type J Transformer specs:

Type J - 100w
Input voltage - 90-250v
Frequency - 40-133 cycles (Hertz)
Output - 4-13v

Produced late '30s

Ron M

That's a throwback to the days before 120v60hz was standard. Suppose it was also supplied for export. Photo from internet:

BTW the United Kingdom used 133 hertz for lighting.

So Lionel was trying to cover the international market place.

Ron M

FWI from Wikipedia:

 Frequencies in Use in 1946 (As well as 50 Hz and 60 Hz)

That's interesting to find out about the type J transformer, sounds like a universal type transformer. It is not listed by Greenberg. Maybe it is listed in one of the old Lionel manuals I have somewhere at my house.

Lee Fritz

ron m posted:

Ace posted:

ron m posted:

Type J Transformer specs:

Type J - 100w
Input voltage - 90-250v
Frequency - 40-133 cycles (Hertz)
Output - 4-13v

Produced late '30s

Ron M

That's a throwback to the days before 120v60hz was standard. Suppose it was also supplied for export. Photo from internet:

BTW the United Kingdom used 133 hertz for lighting.

So Lionel was trying to cover the international market place.

Ron M

FWI from Wikipedia:

 Frequencies in Use in 1946 (As well as 50 Hz and 60 Hz)

Hz	Region
25	Canada (Southern Ontario), Panama Canal Zone(*), France, Germany, Sweden, UK, China, Hawaii, India, Manchuria
40	Jamaica, Belgium, Switzerland, UK, Federated Malay States, Egypt, West Australia(*)
42	Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Italy, Monaco(*), Portugal, Romania, Yugoslavia, Libya (Tripoli)
43	Argentina
45	Italy, Libya (Tripoli)
76	Gibraltar(*)
100	Malta(*), British East Africa

I doubt that Lionel was worried about exports; there was a wide range of power frequencies in use in the US in the early 20th century. Westinghouse built a system in Pittsburgh that ran at 133 Hz, although in the early days it was called 8000 oscillations per minute. The Buffalo, NY area was predominantly 25 Hz until about 1955; indeed it was not until 2007 that the 25Hz system was completely discontinued! 40 Hz was also common, there is still a 40 Hz hydro plant running near Albany, NY, but all of its output is converted to 60 Hz now. Great areas of California were supplied with 50 Hz, which was the frequency of the original generators at Hoover Dam.

I had a lot of old transformers and the 40 - 133 cycle rating was common on the Jeffersons and GEs. Of course, there is the Lionel RX which is rated for 110 volts at 25 cycles and 240 volts at 60 cycles.

PLCProf posted:

I doubt that Lionel was worried about exports; there was a wide range of power frequencies in use in the US in the early 20th century. Westinghouse built a system in Pittsburgh that ran at 133 Hz, although in the early days it was called 8000 oscillations per minute. The Buffalo, NY area was predominantly 25 Hz until about 1955; indeed it was not until 2007 that the 25Hz system was completely discontinued! 40 Hz was also common, there is still a 40 Hz hydro plant running near Albany, NY, but all of its output is converted to 60 Hz now. Great areas of California were supplied with 50 Hz, which was the frequency of the original generators at Hoover Dam.

I had a lot of old transformers and the 40 - 133 cycle rating was common on the Jeffersons and GEs. Of course, there is the Lionel RX which is rated for 110 volts at 25 cycles and 240 volts at 60 cycles.

Sorry it wasn't called "8000 oscillations per minute" it was 133-1/3 cycles/hertz per minute. This is what your '8000' is referring to: revolutions per minute.  

Ron M

would that hydro plant near Albany be the one Henry Ford built on Green Island?

The plant in question is at Mechanicsville, NY. I don't know about the Green Island plant, but I will look into it.

phillyreading posted:

I have the Greenberg's pocket price guide and it list the transformers at the end of the pre war section on page 49, 2016 Lionel, as follows;

A made from 1921 to 1937  40, 60 watts

B made from 1916 to 1938  50, 75 watts

K made from 1913 to 1938  150, 200 watts

L made from 1913 to 1916, 1933 to 1938  50, 75 watts

N made from 1941 to 1942  50 watts

Q made from 1914 to 1915  50 watts

Q made from 1938 to 1942  75 watts

R made from 1938 to 1942  100 watts

S made from 1914 to 1917  50 watts

T made from 1914 to 1928  75, 100, 150 watts

U made from 1932 to 1933  no watts listed, Aladdin(is the only info listed)

V made from 1939 to 1942  150 watts

W made from 1932 to 1933  75 watts

Z made from 1939 to 1942 250 watts, four separate outputs( I have one of

those)

No type J transformer listed by Greenberg's.

 Hope this helps

Lee Fritz

     Not to muddy the waters to much, but the pre-20's (I think) specimens were of a completely different construction. Rather than a sheet steel housing, they were housed in a cast iron "Bucket" with a slate top plate. I have a K in this configuration.

Regards,