Transformer selection for TMCC Legacy or DCS

You're not missing anything.  If you are running command only the 180W bricks are what many use without issue. 

Gary,

The ZW-L and Z-4000, as well as any transformer with a handle/throttle, are for some folks easier to use for conventional operation than the handheld.  Since many folks run both conventional and command, they prefer transformers like the ZW-L/Z-4000.  If you plan to run command only, I agree with Marty to use PH180s.

On my layout, I use only PH180s as power through Legacy PMs (DCS is used in passive mode).  The PMs are there only so I can run conventional when friends bring their PW engines over, or I take out my brother's or father-in-law's conventional engines to run.

If you plan to use DCS via the DCS Remote, as opposed to the DCS App, the Z4000 allows the remote to control the voltage on both handles of multiple Z4000s without having to do anything except power-on the transformer. There's no need to touch the Z4000's handles.

The DCS feature that allows this is called Z4K Tracks.

This and a whole lot more about DCS is all in MTH’s “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!" This book is available from many fine OGR advertisers and forum sponsors, or as an eBook or a printed book at MTH's web store!

Gary L,

  I use several Z4K's, if money is a problem pick up a couple old rebuilt ZW's and some 10 Amp resettable breakers, I have a few of them also.  If you look around you can usually pick up a Z4K used Transformer  for very reasonable money.  Barry is correct as usual, set up correctly the Z4K needs no resetting, however neither does the old ZW.  The ZW-L is a great Transformer also, if you want to remortgage your home to purchase a couple.  Sooner or later I will find one used at a reasonable price however, to add to my power station.

PCRR/Dave

Scotty we need more Power!

What I was missing is that you still need the transformer and whatever features it has when operating in conventional mode, which I can do with my KW.  Thanks, all!

Gary L.

In addition to what's already been mentioned, the Z-4000 also has two track outputs, so if you're planning on using two bricks, you're getting into the same ballpark as the cost of a Z. In addition, the Z also has two accessory outputs to make use of and finally, call me scared, but I also like the idea of slowly bringing up voltage using handles and making sure everything's working right, rather than instant on.

Dave, I'm still trying to figure what you need all that power for!   I think you'd have difficulty getting enough stuff on that table to tax all those transformers!

Gary Liebisch posted:

I don't get why one would use one of those transformers, since all you need is a single fixed 18 volts source.  It would seem to me that all the features on those high end transformers would go unused, because they are included in the command control components.  What am I missing?

Nostalgia

Guns,

   Planning ahead for the new Train Room as we purchased our new home was part of the reason I picked up another used Z4K in great shape at a very reasonable cost.  The new Train Room/Bar area will be 24'x16' with both a ceiling type layout and large multi level floor type layout, filling most of the room.  I do have a tendency to plan far ahead with my layouts.   You are correct the small living room layout in Churchill never taxed the power station at all, and everything ran perfectly.  Also remember I had a large multi level Game Room/Office layout for years in the Churchill home with lots of conventional 711 switches, so at that time I invested in the Z4K's.

Gary L,

 The Z4K Transformer has the side receiver that opens up all kinds of different running options, check out Barry's DCS O Gauge Companion Book, he describes the different running options with the side receiver perfectly.  You can not run in this manner with the Bricks.  Multiple Z4K's each have their own side receivers and the running options become quite large.  Further if you are running numerous switches you can control the power input to them as you expand your layout by raising the operating voltage needed via the handles on the transformers.  Bricks simply limit your building options way to much IMO.

Scotty we need more Power! 

PCRR/Dave

I know I will need either a Power House 180 transformer or can use my current KW provided that I fuse it properly. 

I would use the KW (fused)   providing  one is only going to have 3 or 4 engines...  Use  Either the A or B handle or even the 20 volt accessory posts for a  dcs channel maybe even 2 channels.

Not everyone can afford a new Z-4000

I guess I don't need all the running options provided by the Z4000 receiver.  FWIW, I actually have the receiver and I tinkered with it using the DCS remote, but I don't have any real use for the capability.

Based on some of the comparisons noted in this thread, I am inclined to prefer the MTH DCS.  But as a lifelong Lionel fan, and a neophyte on MTH,  I would like to know what the "go to" source is for finding out if a particular MTH engine supports command control. Since I tend to buy on eBay for pre-owned equipment, and not all engines advertised say whether they are command control, I am looking for a paper or online reference where I can look up specific engines.   All of my existing engines are unmodified postwar Lionel so I'd be starting new if I start buying command control supported engines.

Gary L.

Gary,

Any MTH engine that is designated as PS2 or PS3 will work with DCS.

Gary,

You've received some good advice above, but the only sure way to tell if an engine you might want to purchase is command controlled is to obtain the product number from the seller (directly off of the product, not the box) and then check that information with MTH online.  If the MTH description online says PS2 or PS3, you are good to go.  Anything else requires more investigation on your part.

Also, don't rely on box descriptions because it's pretty easy to switch an earlier version (which might not be command controlled) into a newer box that indicates command control.  I know some selling sites provide you recourse if this happens, but why not avoid the headache if possible.

Chuck

Thanks , everyone , for the PS1 , PS2, and PS3 designations, and ref to the website.  MTH is new to me , but have some very attractive product.   

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Dave, I'm still trying to figure what you need all that power for!   I think you'd have difficulty getting enough stuff on that table to tax all those transformers!

This is what trains at Christmas time is all about!

On a serious note - If you run strictly Command locos then the powerhouse bricks are the way to go. However, if you plan on running any conventional locos on those loops, then you have to add a powermaster for each. Totaling 4 bricks and 4 powermasters starts to get into ZW-L territory with less of the mess, functional meters and handles for traditional running as it has the 4 powermasters built in.

What you might not know OP is that DCS will control TMCC locomotives provided you have a TMCC base. That way, you can control everything from 1 remote and still get to have Lionel locomotives. As others have said, Proto-Sound 2 and Proto-Sound 3 are compatible with DCS. Be careful when buying Proto-Sound 2 locomotives. Make sure the battery has been charged before you purchase one, or better yet it has been replaced. Sometimes Proto 2 has issues but is a pretty dependable platform. Proto-3 is the current platform and gets rid of the battery, choosing to use LEDs and capacitors. If your Proto-3 locomotive doesn't start immediately, don't be alarmed. I started one up the other day that hadn't been run since it left the factory last year. Took 17 seconds or so to charge up after power was applied. 

A KW is perfect unless you run really long passenger trains (scale cars, 10-12 cars a train). Some people use original ZWs so if you can find one for a good price that gives you some headroom, should you feel like you need it. 

Good luck with your upgrade! I am in the process of doing similar upgrades. I'm getting a Z4000, Legacy, and DCS. That extra power is for K-Line Streamlighting as it eats power.

Gary,

 I always like to over power my layouts for best running results, and for expansion.  I suggest a Z4k with side receiver for all options needed when running both DCS and Legacy combined, along with any Conventional Engines you would like to run also.  

IMO Forget the Bricks, purchase a good Transformer.

PCRR/Dave