Turning a layout aisle into a removable river

I believe Alan Arnold our CEO did something like this on his layout.

@Arnold D. Cribari I'm also planning for the aisles of my layout to be a winding "river".  Presently, the plan is to finish what would normally be a fascia, to resemble a river bank.  The actual river water would be left to the imagination, rather than something removable.  I will say that your idea is intriguing and I'll be following this thread to see what ideas may surface....   As usual another good thread.

I have a moveable city on my layout

That’s scary Arnold because just this week that idea entered my thoughts. I have an aisle that is 15” wide and 5’ in length; it will bridge two peninsulas. Along the river banks is four inch fasciae which can easily become rock walls. My initial thought was to mount 2” foam onto luan so I can carve out areas. There would be hinges on one side and a window lock on the other. My hope would be to create something as outstanding as Farmer John. At least that would be my model.

Great idea.  I have also thought about doing this and would place fisherman and small boats on the river.

Most likely use a large 2" foam board that could be inserted in the "aisle" area and removed when needed.

@SteveH posted:

@Arnold D. Cribari I'm also planning for the aisles of my layout to be a winding "river".  Presently, the plan is to finish what would normally be a fascia, to resemble a river bank.  The actual river water would be left to the imagination, rather than something removable.  I will say that your idea is intriguing and I'll be following this thread to see what ideas may surface....   As usual another good thread.

I intend to do something similar as Steve plans on his layout.  I have the two lift up bridges over a aisle, which need sceniced after I get some other scenery done.  Yes indeed, it is another good thread, Arnold.

I had not thought of using foam, but think it might work well as the base of a removable river because it's light weight, can be easily cut and shaped, and can also be painted. After making it's surface the correct color(s), adding layers of Mod Podge could provide a glistening, watery effect.

I have used Mod Podge before and like it a lot. I found it pleasant to work with.

The water in the photo below was simply plywood painted with acrylic paint (I painted it over and over several times until satisfied with the blue gray shade in the middle, and blue green shade on the sides [shallower water], in the stream). Then, I added several layers of Mod Podge. I am pleased with the end result.

The river in the photos below was made by starting with blue paper, crumpling it a little, painting it with acrylic paint and adding layers of Mod Podge. I think the end result is OK, not great. I have not tried to improve it because this river is in the background, hidden in part by model trees, and not a focal point of the layout.

My ideas included having a plywood base (thin, one quarter inch plywood, or a cardboard base, for a removable river on top of the aisle and gap in my layout.

So far, I think a foam base for the removable river is the best option.

If the removable river is 5 feet or more in length, I think it probably makes sense for the foam board base to be in sections, each being 2 to 3 feet in length.

Do you agree?

Only drawback I can think of if it's in sections is the need to hide possible seams in the foam board. If you agree, what would you do to hide the seams?

Maybe the same techniques modelers use to make a hatch in a layout, to facilitate obtaining access to hard to reach areas, can be used to make a removable river.

I have never made such a hatch before.

As usual Arnold your post is generating a brain storming session. Upon further consideration it could be possible to create a skid on either side so the foam can slide easily into and out of position. My 5’ length might have to be in two sections. Seams could be hidden by placing some kayakers over the spot. Or create a wave swell with the exposed seam facing the rear.                                   Your waterway looks very good and I would employ your process.

@Arnold D. Cribari  You have given me an idea for my layout.  I am leaning toward luan plywood covered with 1 inch foam and then layer as needed. Depending on the room available, I am thinking about being able to slide it out when necessary and set it aside. That's where the luan comes in, the foam would not slide very well, but the luan would provide enough support. I do not have room to have a drop down on hinges at one side. You could be creative at the joint line with overlapping vegetation or just rock overhangs.

I thought modge podge would provide some thickness to water, Nope just dries with a shine but no thickness regardless of layers applied.  A 1/4 inch of the stuff in a pool evaporated into nothing.

Dennis Brennan in his book uses "textured" glass - the stuff used for shower doors and table tops (Aquatex). He paints the textured side and leaves the smooth side up. Looks nice in his photos. He used glass due to the size of his harbor. roughly 3 feet by 8.    (Realistic Modeling for Toy Trains - A High Rail Guide)  Probably too heavy for moving, but a good idea.

I'd go to Hobby Lobby of Joann's and find some shiny dark blue fabric.  Add some painted touches to make it look more like water and put some "eyes" along the edges to match the contours of the opening. Hang it from cup hooks about a foot apart under the edges just back far enough to be out of sight.

A bonus could be some movement in the fabric that might just add to the water effect.

Could you attach the new section of "river layout" to the edge of the original layout with hinges so it could pivot up out of the way for temp use of the aisle?  Maybe a linchpin on each end to secure it in the up position?

My aisle is 20" wide and I thought that was ridiculous narrow.

Have done a couple of these which I recently posted. I'll repost here:

Foam was fashioned for the river bank and glued to the bottom of the upper deck.

The 3' X 11' drop down body of water has a 3/4" X 1 1/4" frame work covered with 5.5mm Luan top and bottom.  The plywood skins were staggered for strength to overcome the excess of 8' length.  Like a Luan hollow door it is extremely rigid and light weight.

Plus, awhile ago someone posted a photo of a river he made from a rippled privacy shower door.  Was excellent IMO.

Great ideas all around. I like a drop down like Tom describes. Yours would not need to be as structurally substantial Arnold, since it's a smaller area. I think a piece of 1/4" ply with 2" of rigid foam applied would give enough rigidity to work. I like 2" foam because it would give you enough depth for the water feature.
Two weeks ago, in Alan's Sunday Scenic Showcase, Pete from Virginia posted some pix of his excellent harbor scene.

He wrote that he used toilet paper, blue paint, and several coats of Mod Podge with a clear gloss on top. Great idea and probably a lot easier that using the pour-able waters. Once you figure out the structure, then the fun can begin.

Bob

Another great thread here on the forum.   I need to build a "removable" or hinge down panel for access on the last section of my layout and have toyed with the idea of an industrial water scene.  Lot's of good ideas written up here.  As far as the "textured" wavy glass,  I know an almost identical texture is available in acrylic (clear plastics) in sheets as thin as 1/8 inch which addresses the weight issue.   After  a little research this morning apparently it's referred to as DP-32 Pattern Colorless.   I am going to reach out to J. Freeman Inc. here in Dorchester, MA to get a quote when they re-open after the holiday.   A customer of mine referred me to this company this past summer.  Their prices are by far the best I have seen on acrylic sheet products. 

@RSJB18 posted:

Great ideas all around. I like a drop down like Tom describes. Yours would not need to be as structurally substantial Arnold, since it's a smaller area. I think a piece of 1/4" ply with 2" of rigid foam applied would give enough rigidity to work. I like 2" foam because it would give you enough depth for the water feature.
Two weeks ago, in Alan's Sunday Scenic Showcase, Pete from Virginia posted some pix of his excellent harbor scene.

He wrote that he used toilet paper, blue paint, and several coats of Mod Podge with a clear gloss on top. Great idea and probably a lot easier that using the pour-able waters. Once you figure out the structure, then the fun can begin.

Bob

Outstanding, Bob, what you say makes perfect sense, and Pete's harbor scene is excellent IMO.

Mod Podge may have a drawback in that it doesn't create a depth of water effect, but it smells good, is non-toxic, does not give off harmful fumes, and is relatively safe to work with in a basement near the furnace. I found that several layers of glossy Mod Podge creates a nice glistening water effect.

Alan, lots of good ideas here.  Lee Willis, who used to post here much more often than he does now, faced the same dilemma several years ago.  I believe he came up with a hinged drop down like Tom Tee has posted.  I believe I remember Lee posting details of his solution.  Do a search and you may get some more ideas from his posts.

As for using foam, while it is light weight, rigidity and load bearing capacity may lead to thicker foam and if you pursue a hinged drop down you will need some wood substrate to fasten hardware to, negating some of the weight savings.  I made a sandwich of 3mm underlayment and 2in foam for my tabletop.  While it is definitely lighter than 3/4in plywood it is heavier than expected.

There are many ways to make good looking water here on the forum, everything from commercially available products to ModPodge, acrylic caulk, various epoxies and resins and shower door glass.  Your final construction method could dictate the proper choice for aisle, shower door glass probably wouldn't be a good choice for any removable or drop down because of weight.

Wait'a minute Arnold.

You never showed us what you did about that low drain pipe across the back of your layout.

First things first!  :-)

Mannyrock

@Mannyrock posted:

Wait'a minute Arnold.

You never showed us what you did about that low drain pipe across the back of your layout.

First things first!  :-)

Mannyrock

Mannyrock,that issue is still pending, but I have made progress to the extent of eliminating the leak in that pipe, thanks to the good work of a plumber, and replacing the washing machine with a better one.

I may just leave the pipe, as it currently is, as is. That is because I kinda like how the pipe shows that my trains go to different places throughout the nooks and crannies of my basement and that I've overcome various obstacles in my basement.

The drop down arrangement is what I would do if I was going to finish the aisle beyond sceniced river banks along the fascia.  On the other hand, maybe I will just paint the floor a river-like color and paint on some fish. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

The drop down arrangement is what I would do if I was going to finish the aisle beyond sceniced river banks along the fascia.  On the other hand, maybe I will just paint the floor a river-like color and paint on some fish. 

Based on what I saw at the cabin fever expo, you could just build a tub and flood the aisle!  Then drain it down when you need the access. 🤪

@jhz563 posted:

Based on what I saw at the cabin fever expo, you could just build a tub and flood the aisle!  Then drain it down when you need the access. 🤪

That would work!  It would drain right out the sliding glass door 3 feet from the aisle in question!!!  😄

Jim McIntosh, who is no longer with us, had a huge layout. His aisles were rivers and he had a lot of bridges crossing them over your head. I believe his video is featured here if you have a paid membership to view it.

Dave

As alluded to in another topic, I now have a removable ocean in addition to a removable river.

Check out this removable ocean:

The removable ocean is nothing more than a dark green drop cloth that took me 30 seconds to position over the washing machine and dryer in my basement.  Arnold

Here is a panoramic video of the same train running by the removable river, now largely complete, discussed in the above posts on this thread:

As previously mentioned. I used 2 inch thick styrofoam and the Marklin of Sweden toilet paper plus glue equals realistic water method on YouTube to make the river. Arnold

Now, instead of having a layout that is 35 feet by 3 to 4 feet wide, I have a layout that is 35 feet wide by 8 to 10 feet wide.

I am very pleased with these improvements.

Going nautical has been great fun.

Arnold

Looks great Arnold.

You nailed the color of NY Harbor with the green drop cloth......

Bob

Batten your hatches and lash everything down tight.  Put on your life jackets right now.  You have some high and rowdy seas there, Mate.

Hmm...  Maybe a river right here...  It could be hinged to just drop down and allow access up the aisle, interesting idea...

That turned out very nice Arnold; great job.

Looks great Arnold! Great videos too!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Hmm...  Maybe a river right here...  It could be hinged to just drop down and allow access up the aisle, interesting idea...

Go for it!

@Arnold D. Cribari  love your green ocean. I suppose the black iron pipes in the background help keep the water level up. Those standing waves look ominous - would not want to swim in your ocean. Very creative. Keep up the good work and the fun posts! 

gunrunnerjohn -  a good idea for the layout.  A dock for a barge or larger vessel for grain or coal? Looks too tight for an intermodal scene. Funny how looking at what our fellow modelers do gives us ideas for ours.  I assume the dropdown will hinge from under the layout and not the sides. Still have to noodle out a possible water drop down for my layout.

GRJ could do an industrial backdrop to complement the wharf.

Arnold, the ocean harbor and river look great!  That's some rough seas there however!  I have to hand it to the pilots of those ships

Night duty rescuing a barge in rough waters:

Arnold