Uncoupling Track causes engine to stop

The supplied power -  wall-wart / adapter does not have enough power to run the train when the uncoupler electromagnet is energized. It's a design oversight.

@ADCX Rob posted:

The supplied power -  wall-wart / adapter does not have enough power to run the train when the uncoupler electromagnet is energized. It's a design oversight.

I thought a constant 18V DC was applied to the track with those sets?  When I looked it up it said that the uncoupler track requires only 10-12v to operate?  Amps too low?

What would you suggest?

Thanks,

John

Make sure the train car magnet is directly over the uncoupler magnet at a complete stop. Press button, the couplers should uncouple, then move engine forward, hopefully that will work.

Enough volts, not enough watts.

Jon

So what should they buy?  If it is DC on the tracks don't they have to supply DC to the uncoupling track auxiliary inputs as well even if the power supply for it is separate.  Should they get a different power supply for the whole thing?  As I said.  I run a KW and AC power so I am not familiar with much of the control stuff for modern O Gauge.

John

John,

I think it's great that your grandson is getting into the hobby, I started with my daughter when she was around that same age.

Ok, so on page 4 of the 6-12020 Uncoupling track Owner's Manual it says to operate this unit on 10 - 12 Volts AC.

Even though the power pack that came with the Lion Chief set outputs DC voltage, this Lion Chief Locomotive is designed to Run on either AC or DC.

@SteveH posted:

John,

I think it's great that your grandson is getting into the hobby, I started with my daughter when she was around that same age.

Ok, so on page 4 of the 6-12020 Uncoupling track Owner's Manual it says to operate this unit on 10 - 12 Volts AC.

Even though the power pack that came with the Lion Chief set outputs DC voltage, this Lion Chief Locomotive is designed to Run on either AC or DC.

So if you/they want to get an AC Transformer controller, that could work, with some important caveats that I'll get to.  If you/they do get an AC transformer, I'd suggest putting away the DC transformer in a safe place your grandson won't find to avoid the possibility of him connecting two different incompatible power systems, which would likely damage something(s).  An entry level AC transformer would provide enough AC power to operate the Locomotive, uncoupling track and a few more accessories.

The next question to answer is what voltage setting to use on the AC Transformer.  Since the recommended AC voltages are 18V for the LC locos and 10-12V for the uncoupling track, there's the rub.  Ideally there would be two different AC power sources, but keeping track of the LC remote controls, and how to set two different voltage settings on a transformer with several different wires might be too much for a five year old to keep up with.

So here's a possible compromise, set the AC transformer controls to 16 VAC.  The loco will still run at this voltage if the electrical connections between the individual pieces of track are good. The uncoupler will also work just fine at 16VAC, but it's safe operational duration becomes shorter.

In other words, at 16 Volts the time that the uncoupler button can be pressed before the electro-magnet permanently fails is reduced.  The instructions for the uncoupler warn you not to operate it for more than 10 seconds (using the 10-12 volt range), so your grandson would need to understand that if the button is pressed for more than a few seconds with this higher voltage, it might not work anymore.

Sorry if this seems over complicated, just thought you should have enough information to help you decide how to proceed.

I didn't catch that the manual said 10-12v AC.

So then why couldn't an AC source (like an older AC transformer or a doorbell transformer) be hooked up to the AUX input of the uncoupler track?  It is only working the electromagnet and I wouldn't think it would matter that the track was DC.

John

@SteveH posted:

...the DC power ground and AC transformer common are separated.

AC & DC can share a common return.

@ADCX Rob posted:

AC & DC can share a common return.

So what I suggested should be safe then Rob?

John

Ok, I've changed my opinion based on some testing.  Even though there was a very small voltage potential between isolated DC and AC power supplies, it was at most a few millivolts.  This is not enough to cause noticeable power loss or overheating issues when sharing a common return between these 2 power supplies.

John, you should be able to connect the terminals from an AC transformer to the Uncoupling track and have everything work correctly.  One AC transformer lead would connect to the Uncoupling track Aux Power terminal or directly to one of the control button wires.

The other AC transformer terminal would need to either connect to Uncoupling section Aux GND terminal.  Or, if you're inclined to have a better connection, the common wire could be soldered directly to the ground buss bar under the Uncoupling track.

@SteveH posted:

Ok, I've changed my opinion based on some testing.  Even though there was a very small voltage potential between isolated DC and AC power supplies, it was at most a few millivolts.  This is not enough to cause noticeable power loss or overheating issues when sharing a common return between these 2 power supplies.

John, you should be able to connect the terminals from an AC transformer to the Uncoupling track and have everything work correctly.  One AC transformer lead would connect to the Uncoupling track Aux Power terminal or directly to one of the control button wires.

The Uncoupling track doesn't have a spade terminal for an Aux Ground connection.  The other AC transformer terminal would need to either connect to an outside rail terminal located under the FasTrack close to the Uncoupling section.  Or, if you're inclined to have a better connection, the common wire could be soldered directly to the ground buss bar under the Uncoupling track.

That sounds great.  Thanks for doing the test Steve.  I really appreciate that.  He actually has Accessory Power Wire with quick connectors (6-12053).   Instructions say:

1. Attach the quick connectors at the end of the Accessory Power Wire (available separately,
6-12053) to the AUX IN and AUX GND tabs on the underside of the Uncoupling Track
section.
2. Connect the bare ends of the Accessory Power Wire to the Power/A and Common Ground/U
terminals on your power supply.
3. Move the quick connector at the end of the controller cable from the tab labeled TRK PWR
to the tab labeled AUX PWR.
4. Turn on your power supply when you are ready to operate the track section using the
controller. Note that the power supply must be set at 10-12 volts and capable of supplying
1 amp.

https://www.lionelsupport.com/...0UncouplingTrack.pdf

John

You're right about the ground connection on the Uncoupling track, I missed that.  Going to edit that post you quoted to delete the incorrect part.

@Craftech posted:

So what I suggested should be safe then Rob?

Yes, even a small conventional transformer like a 1015 or 1025 will power the uncouple magnet nicely.

Thanks  guys.  The help is truly appreciated as always.

John

I run my uncoupler on track power from the tiny wall transformer that comes with the set and have not had issues with it.

I would suggest the following two easy ideas:

1. Test the uncoupler's operation connected directly to the powered track segment that came with the set and not much else.  You could try both ends of the sections if the results are not a success.

2. Check the wiring diagram in the manual that came with the uncoupler.  There are movable connectors under the uncoupler track that might be disconnected or configured incorrectly.

These answers should point you in the right direction.