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I am back on the forum after a long absence and felt it was time to update everyone with the status of my layout.  I'm going to start by posting a few pictures.Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co

Milwaukee Road MP-15 switcher with a load of new John Deere tractors passing by Spencer Packing Co.

Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out

The Sinclair gas station has all hands on deck helping a cute young lady in her convertible.  The IGA store is being stocked by Borden's Milk and Wonder Bread while the Ruthven Baseball team is playing at Lost Island Field behind it.

Three Engines working the Eola Yard

The Eola Yard is busy today with three engines working it at the same time.  This is my newest classification yard where all trains bound for my Milwaukee Road branch line are staged and received.Union Station Streamliner Departures

Three name passenger trains are awaiting departure from Chicago's Union Station.

My plan is to add pictures on a regular basis.  The last pictures I posted were before much of my current scenery was completed and I hadn't ballasted any track yet.  I hope you enjoy them.

Art

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  • Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co
  • Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out
  • Three Engines working the Eola Yard
  • Union Station Streamliner Departures
Last edited by Chugman
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@Chugman posted:

I am back on the forum after a long absence and felt it was time to update everyone with the status of my layout.  I'm going to start by posting a few pictures.Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co

Milwaukee Road MP-15 switcher with a load of new John Deere tractors passing by Spencer Packing Co.

Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out

The Sinclair gas station has all hands on deck helping a cute young lady in her convertible.  The IGA store is being stocked by Borden's Milk and Wonder Bread while the Ruthven Baseball team is playing at Lost Island Field behind it.

Three Engines working the Eola Yard

The Eola Yard is busy today with three engines working it at the same time.  This is my newest classification yard where all trains bound for my Milwaukee Road branch line are staged and received.Union Station Streamliner Departures

Three name passenger trains are awaiting departure from Chicago's Union Station.

My plan is to add pictures on a regular basis.  The last pictures I posted were before much of my current scenery was completed and I hadn't ballasted any track yet.  I hope you enjoy them.

Art

Nice looking layout!

I hope everyone is enjoying the Memorial Day weekend.  Here is a few more pictures.

Santa Fe El Captitan at Casey's House in Savanna

Casey Jones Jr. is retired and waited for his grandkids to get home from school as the afternoon Santa Fe El Capitan blast across the crossing by his home.  Casey lives in Savanna, IL on the banks of the Mississippi River on the Great River Road.Train Time at Union Station 4

It's train time at Chicago's Union Station with the name passenger trains ready for departure on the lower level and the Metra is arriving on the upper level with passengers from the suburbs.  Lou Mitchel's restaurant is busy and based on the limo may even have a famous guest.  A Greyhound Scenicruiser is waiting at the grade crossing with even more passengers heading to catch a train.

BNSF Intermodal on Stone Arch Bridge

A BNSF Intermodal train blasts out of a tunnel and heads across the double-track stone arch bridge while a family is enjoying camping on the shores of the lake below.  It looks like they are getting a head start on the Memorial Day weekend and have found the perfect spot.

Art

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  • Santa Fe El Captitan at Casey's House in Savanna
  • Train Time at Union Station 4
  • BNSF Intermodal on Stone Arch Bridge

Mark - I am modeling he Midwest and primarily Illinois and Iowa, but some in Kansas too.  Thanks my Chicago Union Station is such a small representation of the real thing, but I tried to capture as much as I could of the excitement and drama of the real thing.

Tom - That's right modeling scenes from the memories of my past makes it more fun and meaningful to me.  You have a great memory my friend.

Alex- Thanks I've always appreciated your support.

Art

As Tom mentioned, I like to model events from my past that have special meaning to me.  Here are a few examples of that:

H & N Chevy & Amtrak Carl Sandberg

This is my home town of Spencer, Iowa.  I met my wife for the first in front of H & N Chevrolet and all the buildings have special meanings and memories.

Claude Goren at Spencer Coast To Coast Store

This shows Claude Goren a brother of the famous bridge player, Charles Goren, walking to the Spencer Senior Center to play bridge.  He is in front of the Coast to Coast store which is where my first Lionel train and bicycle were purchased.  A Milwaukee Road switcher is busy handling cars at the local businesses.

Miss Iowa Parade in Downtown Ruthven

This my wife's home town of Ruthven, Iowa where a parade is taking place as a part of the Miss Iowa Pageant  of 1960 which she was in. 

Meat Train & C&NW Steam Passenger at Mississippi River

We are just in time to catch a glimpse of the Milwaukee Road's meat train passing over the high bridge over the Mississippi River.  From our position on a bluff above the Great River Road we see the C&NW local passenger train and a family canoeing down the river.  I used to watch the meat train switch cars while my parents were playing cards with friends that lived close to the tracks.  The crew was so friendly to me that I have always had a good relationship with train crews.

Art

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  • H & N Chevy & Amtrak Carl Sandberg
  • Claude Goren at Spencer Coast To Coast Store
  • Miss Iowa Parade in Downtown Ruthven
  • Meat Train & C&NW Steam Passenger at Mississippi River

I have had computer problems, but hopefully am back in business again.  Here are three more pictures.

City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

UP's City of Los Angeles is passing under a signal bridge on the Race Track beside by Eola freight yard.

Eola Engine Service Area 1

My Eola freight yard just has a small engine servicing area where engines are refueled and crews are changed.  It is a BNSF classification yard, but it is my interchange point with my Milwaukee Road branch line that serves Northwest Iowa.  It is the Chicago terminus for my meat train that runs every week from Sioux Falls, SD and picks up reefers from Spencer Pack and Morrell Pack.

UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

A UP unit coal train and a BNSF intermodal wait for clear boards on the signal bridge outside my Proviso freight yard.  It must be a weekday as the trains usually stack up waiting to get into the Chicago area yards with all the Metra commuter activity and heavy freight traffic.  Ay least the weather looks good and isn't contributing to the delays.

Art

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  • City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track
  • Eola Engine Service Area 1
  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

My wife survived a widow maker heart attack a week ago Friday night so we have all been pulled away from our normal lives.  We are extremely lucky that we didn't lose her.  I praise the EMT's, the doctors and nurses, and especially the Lord for this.

I will resume posting some pictures when things get a little more back to normal.  Here is one though in the meantime.

City of LA at Bike Shop Tunnel

The UP City of Los Angeles emerges from a tunnel approaching Wichita, KS on it's journey to the west coast from Chicago.

Art

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  • City of LA at Bike Shop Tunnel

I'm going to post a few more pictures before I get into future plans and our new project. 

20190328_124723

This is my rendition of the Band Box Theater from my home town of Spencer, Iowa.   As a young boy we would go to the Saturday afternoon double-header movies for ten cents.  There would always be a Superman serial that ran before the feature films where he would get into some jam that it seemed impossible for him to get out.  You would have to attend next week to find out what happened.  Usually at least one of the movies was a cowboy and Indian one and we would have to go home and get out our cap guns and re-enact it.  Great memories!

spencer nights1

Another Spencer business was Sportsmen's of Spencer that carried not only all kinds of sporting goods, but also train sets at Christmas time.  Here we see Hilda waiting for her ride home after a long day of cleaning offices.  Doctor Kinderdine, the local dentist, is reading the Spencer Daily Reporter while waiting for his wife so they can go out for dinner at Stub's House of Plenty downtown.

ruthven night1

In the nearby town of Ruthven, Iowa the sun is going down while the local policeman is keeping a close eye on the American Legion prior to tonight's bingo game.   The lights are still bright at Wigdahl's hardware next door serving farmers that need parts to keep their equipment running during the harvest.  The Farmer's Coop elevator and lumber yard are quiet and it looks like everyone has gone home for the day.

20190328_130456

Earlier in the afternoon the local Ruthven sandlot teams were enjoying a game of baseball at the diamond in Lost Island Park.  It looks like the Eaton Grease Gun factory has shut down for the day, but there are a lot of lights on at the Tangney Hotel, Spencer's tallest building.  (The baseball field is on a Styrofoam liftout for access to this section of the layout.)

Art

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  • 20190328_124723
  • spencer nights1
  • ruthven night1
  • 20190328_130456

Hope that everyone is having a good Fourth of July weekend so far.  Here are a few more pictures.

BNSF Dash 8 on Mississippi Bridge

As a BNSF Intermodal passes over a through truss bridge over the Mississippi River, it's a pretty July day on the Great River Road just below.  Traffic needs to be careful though as an Iowa Highway Patrolman has a speed trap setup behind the Hamm's Beer billboard waiting for any speeders. 

City of LA at Savanna Station

Meanwhile on this beautiful summer day, the UP City of LA is pulling into the Savannah, IL station.   There must be summer school as we see a school bus crossing over the Mississippi River bridge from Sabula, IA.  The local Savannah police car is at the station, I hope there isn't any major problems.

El Cap on Race Track at Signal Bridge

The Santa Fe El Capitan is passing the Eola Yard on the Race Track on it's journey back to Chicago from the West Coast.  The yard is fuller than usual today and the yardmaster will have his hands full getting trains out to make room for the scheduled arrival of the Milwaukee Road meat train.

Art

 

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  • BNSF Dash 8 on Mississippi Bridge
  • City of LA at Savanna Station
  • El Cap on Race Track at Signal Bridge

Thanks, Peter.

Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears.  That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up.  "From the land of sky blue waters"  I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it.  My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason.  I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.

Art

@Chugman posted:

Thanks, Peter.

Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears.  That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up.  "From the land of sky blue waters"  I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it.  My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason.  I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.

Art

@Chugman Wow, that's awesome! You ever plan on going back to the show?

As I have been focusing on improving my operating sessions, I felt the need to add more passenger stations to the layout.  My name trains like the California Zephyr stop at just the main stations, but the local passenger train stops at all stations and even one flag stop at Sabula.  Here are some pictures of stations I recently added.

Plano station

This is my Plano station on the first day that it opened for business.  You can see that there is still landscaping and lighting that needs to be added, but with five people waiting for the first train it was an encouraging start.

LaGrange station

LaGrange added a station too and was not to be outdone on first day crowds.  Again landscaping and parking lot lights need to be added, but that didn't keep commuters away.  Even Railway Express was in business.

Wichita station looking west

Wichita's new station has opened as well.  The local is seen just as it departs after making a station stop.  The location seems a little suspect with such a large grain elevator complex next door, the train always seems to bring excitement and paying passengers.

Art

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  • Plano station
  • LaGrange station
  • Wichita station looking west

Thanks Mark.  A new train buddy of mine is modeling all the railroads that served Cincinnati.  He is modeling both freight and passenger, but he loves to switch cars to make up passenger trains.  He and some of his real railroad friends know the exact consist of actual passenger trains are replicating it on his railroad.  Very cool and opens up a whole new area of the hobby  My layout is not setup to do that so I run complete trains without changed the cars.

Art

I have been thinking a lot about how to improve my operating sessions.  Recent discussions with a new train friend, David Hadley, convinced me to start running trains bi-directionally on my double-track mainlines.  To prevent total chaos with trains running towards each other on the same track, it was decided that I needed a working realistic signal system that we can actually run trains by. 

I wanted the signal system when we first built the layout, but the expense, complications, and lack of good signal bridges prevented me from pursuing it.  Terry Christopher of Custom Signals even made a signal location plan for me that I still have. 

I discussed all of this with my train friends and we came up with a plan.  There is so much talent among them we decided on a team approach. 

Signal Project Team Members:

We will be assisted by David Hadley, a former railroad consultant and operations-oriented railroader for 32 years of his career.  He also has a working signal system on his layout that uses Atlas “Pennsy” style position light signals.  He helped us develop what signals were needed to operate the layout as realistically as possible.  He explained to us where and why we should place the signals to best achieve our operational goals.  

My son, Jim Williams, who loves trains as much as I do.  He brought the knowledge of being an electrician, a layout builder, and a love for signals to the project.  We originally planned my layout to have an Atlas signal system that we could actually run trains by, but it was side tracked by a number of issues.  He is doing everything from making the signal bridges, wiring all the LED’s in the targets, to designing and installing all the signal and interlocking boards.

A close friend, Alan Nelson, known as AlanRail on the OGR forum, is fellow model railroader and has developed the skills to make just about anything with his 3D printers and laser cutters.  His background as a structural engineer has also been a big asset for our project.  As I have researched real signals, Alan has made extremely accurate 3D designs and printed them.  He has also created special boards to hold heads for painting, jigs for drilling properly aligned holes for heads on brass poles, researched special glues to assemble signals, and numerous other tasks critical to the project.

Another long-time friend, Steve Horvath of Atlas, encouraged us and has provided valuable knowledge in figuring out the sometimes-complex wiring and logic involved with developing our system.  He has helped us locate key Atlas components and is always a phone call away when we need help.

My grandson and Jim’s oldest son, Doug Williams joined our group and has been a huge asset in helping with under the layout wiring, wiring signal board clusters, and is looking forward to operating sessions after it is operational.

And lastly myself who will fund, access materials, coordinate, paint and weather bridges, and hopefully keep things moving.

I will start posting pictures and reports of our progress.

Art

Art,

I will be following along with this closely. I actually went with the Custom Signal product and have everything installed. Right now I am doing a bit of trouble shooting to get everything working properly. It has definitely been a learning curve for me but, just like you, I know it will add a nice level of realism that is often times omitted.

Dave

Dave, we are just beginning to install signal board clusters and lighting the signals that have been installed on the layout.  We have six signal bridges to build and install on the lower level.  All detector wires have been soldered to the rails, but we haven't connected any to the boards yet.   And we have not connected the wires from the Tortoise to the interlocking boards yet either.   We aren't sure what problems or issues we may have yet, but are optimistic.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Bob, I'm still learning the terminology, but I think ours will be more of a CTC style operation.  The dispatcher or tower operator will set the switches which will alert and guide the engineers if they will taking the diverting or straight route through the crossovers and passing sidings.  And the occupancy feature will tell them if the path is clear, approach, or stop.  We are using a one block approach and not a two block one due to the size of the layout.  I'm relying on my real railroad expert to teach me the terminology and systems.  Boy does he have a challenge!

Beautiful picture of your layout.  Wish I lived closer, I would love to attend one your sessions.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

I was visiting with my son Jim yesterday and he corrected me on my statement regarding our one block approach.  He said we are using a two block approach instead of a three block approach.  I'm not 100% sure what difference that makes, but I just wanted to correct my error.  All of this is a big learning experience for me, but I am loving the ride so far.

Art

I found that there is a lot of background information necessary to develop a signal system.  Many decisions need to be made to get the project off on a sound footing.  Examples are:

  • What style of signals - We chose searchlights.
  • What system will drive the signals - We chose Atlas signal and interlocking boards as most realistic and easiest to use.
  • How many blocks and where are do they start and end - We ended up with 11 on the lower level, each mainline  block has to have a name and number.
  • Every location has to be named - More involved that you might think.  Yards, towns, interlockings, everything has to have a name.
  • Each signal aspect's location has to be identified - Usually four at every mainline switch location for example.  At the beginning and end of each block and etc.
  • An inventory of what is needed - You have to determine what is available and what must be made.  All our signal bridges had to be made and we couldn't fine enough Atlas searchlight mast signals.  Plus we ended up wanting a cantilever to solve a real estate problem and three bracket signals for the same reason and they had to be made.
  • Do we have the talent and resources needed -  That is where our team approach came in.

A rather daunting list for any one individual, but a team can break it into more manageable segments.  I learned a long time ago that this hobby is more fun when it is shared.  I not only couldn't do this alone and when it is done, I can't and don't want to operate it alone.  Yes, I can still run trains around the layout in a realistic fashion with no help and the signals will change as trains pass them, but the true fun and excitement will only happen when it is operated by a group of us.

Just my two cents worth.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Flyboy62 that's a lot of signal boards and wiring.  I see that you chose to cluster all your boards together rather than have them located in high density areas of the layout.  We opted to go the other route, but I'm sure either works well.  Have you used the new interlocking boards?  What type of layout do you have?  Double-track or single-track mainlines?  I have 11 blocks on each mainline of the double track for 22 and then the upper level which will have another 7 I believe.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

Art

Art:   I have 3 main lines of which two parallel each other for a portion of the layout.  What we did was to secure an 8 (or 10) post terminal barrier block beneath each Atlas switch on the layout.  We than ran Cat 5 wiring back to our area at the back of the layout we had the boards mounted.  We then punched all of the wire into telephone style 66 blocks.  Each switch uses 5 wires (3 for the switch and 2 detects).  That left 3 wires for miscellaneous purposes.  In some cases we drove relays that were installed adjacent to the barrier blocks to switch center contacts on the switch to power the center of the switches to avoid arcing.  We also installed an additional 15 or so barrier blocks around the bottom of the layout and terminated them in an adjacent area and punched them down also.  This wires are used for running accessories or switching accessories on and off remotely.  This made adding items quite easy and avoided having long runs when we wanted to add a powered accessory.

We did the same thing for our lighting albeit we used heavier wiring.  All of our lighting is fed by six 18vac transformers.  Lots of amperage.

Adjacent to the boards mounted in the back we have 11 Lionel LCS switch modules which drive the Atlas 6924 boards so that we can control the switches via CAB2 or an iPad.

While it sounds very busy it really was quite simple once we thought our the schema.

Good luck on your project.  I know you and your son will have great results.



dick

Larry, thanks a lot.  I seem to recall that you have a very nice layout as well.  It's fun to share on this forum.  I have noticed that every time I visit someone's layout, I learn something from it.  It doesn't matter what scale it is or how many rails there are.

I hope my signal journey will be interesting and inspire others to start their projects as well.

Art

Dick, thanks for the additional information on your system.  I'm impressed with people that are organized and knowledgeable in this hobby.  I know just enough about what you told me to appreciate what you have done, but don't ask me to repeat it.  My son, Jim, is my electrical guru with his years as a commercial electrician and a life-long model railroader.  I know we have what we call "power routed" my switches that we had trouble with engines stalling at slow speeds.  We used Atlas non-derail boards and Tortoise switch machines.  This combo gives plenty of connection points for my control panels and driving our Atlas signal and interlocking boards.  We use Lionel power bricks for good dependable power.  We power signals, switch machines, and any accessories with independent power and not track power.   

Art

One of the first decisions you have to make on a signal system is what style signals you will use.  I have always loved searchlights.  I checked and all the railroads that I model had them.

A second decision is which type of signals to use?  I have a double-track mainline that goes completely around my main or lower level and some areas where there are three tracks.  I refer to that as “the race track” a term used to describe the three-track mainline from downtown Chicago to Aurora, IL and the BNSF’s Eola freight yard.  Signal bridges are used extensively there and I want them on my layout as well.

As many of you know, there are a few choices for O scale signal bridges, but each as their strong and weak points.  I won’t name them all, but they are easy to find.

My layout before starting this new project had a few bridges on it and a few Atlas single target mast signals.  My son, Jim, and I talked about how to make our own.  He suggested upgrading a Lionel 450 bridge with new LED lights.  He did and I painted and lightly weathered the bridge structure.  It wasn’t a precision, detailed masterpiece, but it didn’t look too bad either.  And I found out after we installed one on my layout that you didn’t spend that much time examining the bridge structure, but it was very cool to see the lights and watch them change as a train passed.  Another thing that I liked was that it was a metal bridge and when screwed to the layout was “rock solid”.  I liked that, so we built some more.  They used detector wires soldered to the outside rail blocks of track.  They were powered by relays that Jim installed.

We began picking up the Lionel 450 bridges at local train shows for reasonable prices.  We didn’t care if they worked or not, we just wanted the bridge structure.

All this was just setting the stage for me wanting to go beyond this first step.  I wanted searchlight signals that displayed three colors, not just red and green.  We wanted to know how many blocks ahead were clear or approach lighting.

This will be addressed and explained as we move along, but I wanted to show a few pictures of what the old signals that I just described looked like on the layout.

UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

With the structure of the bridge decided, our next task was to find or make searchlight targets to mount on the bridges.  More on that as when the story continues.

Art

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  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard
  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard
  • City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

Next we needed an inventory of how many bridges we would need.  The initial count came up with seven 2-track bridges, six 3-track bridges, and two 2 1/2-track bridges.  The 2 1/2-track bridges are wider 2-track bridges that had to be placed on curves.  We checked clearances and the normal 2-track bridges weren't wide enough.  Plus one cantilever bridge and three bracket signal bridges for the upper level.

My son Jim made all these bridge structures from the Lionel 450 signal bridges.  It took two 2-track bridges to make each 3-track bridge.  It turns out that we had collected just enough of these used Lionel bridges.  Once these were all fabricated Jim gave them to me to paint a dull black (Rustoleum Camo Black) and lightly over-sprayed with a rust color for weathering.   When this was done I gave them back to Jim so he could build and mount the signal heads. 

Here is a picture of the bridges during the painting process.  The 3-track bridge at the bottom right does not have legs as it will be mounted to the side of a highway bridge in our Chicago Junction block.

Bridges being painted and weathered

Art

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  • Bridges being painted and weathered

Searchlight signals in O gauge are hard to find, so we determined that we would have to make our own.  Alan offered to design and 3D print them.

We next needed to find LED’s that would provide the color accuracy and distinct three colors of red, green, and yellow.  My son Jim and Alan started searching for LED’s and ordered the best candidates that they could find.  Jim found some good ones, but they required us to solder the wires to them.  They were so small that it was a very difficult task.  Meanwhile Alan ordered some from a Chinese supplier online called Wehonest which were already wired.  Jim and Alan tested them for color accuracy and they looked very good.

The next issue was how best to mount them inside the heads.  Alan’s first design looked great, but proved to be difficult to install the LED’s in.  Alan’s next innovation was great.  He designed and 3D printed a Fresnel lens to glue the LED’s to.  He then redesigned the heads in two pieces and the Fresnel lens fit snuggly inside the head.  I didn’t know what a Fresnel lens was before this, but this is what real railroads use on their signals too.  It focuses, directs, and intensifies the light.  They are also used in our traffic lights for the same reasons.

Alan recommended a special glue to install them and we had our searchlight head problem solved.  I ordered enough LED’s to make all our signal heads, Alan printed all the heads and Fresnel lens, and Jim started assembling them in a production mode.

Here are a few pictures.

LED lens assembly ready to put in signal head

LED's with four wires attached to provide the three colors.  Red, green, yellow, and black for common.

Final 3D head design

Alan's final two piece head design.  The head is designed to slide on a brass pole.  The back is glued on after the LED's are installed in the head.

Fresnel lens backside

Alan's design for the backs of the Fresnel lens.  The LED's fit perfectly into the cavity on the back.

Fresnel lens design

The front of the Fresnel lens.

LED testing

Jim holding a LED to show it's size.  They are very small to work with.

Disassembled Atlas signal

A disassembled Atlas signal for comparison. 

Now we have about 75 heads to build, paint, and find the best way to install them to the signal bridges.

Art

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Images (6)
  • LED lens assembly ready to put in signal head
  • Final 3D head design
  • Fresnel lens backside
  • Fresnel lens design
  • LED testing
  • Disassembled Atlas signal

Here are a few more pictures of the signal heads or aspects as they are being assembled.

Fresnel lens compared to a dime

This picture shows a couple Fresnel lens, the one on the left shows the back side and the pocket that the LED goes into.  The lens on the right is the front that faces out.  You can see the circular lines.  The dime is for size comparison so you can see how small these components are which makes them harder to work with.

Signal heads spray painted black before removal from holder

This is a painting jig that Alan made to make it easier to paint the heads.  Alan's ingenuity never ceases to amaze me.  I insert the heads in the jig and spray them black.  Then after they are dry, I remove them and send them to my son Jim.  He glues the LED assembly into the Fresnel lens and that into the signal head.  Then he glues the back of the signal head on and returns them to me to paint the backs in the jig.

Painted heads removed from painting jig

This pictures shows some heads removed from the painting jig and ready to send to Jim.

New head front painted

Here is a head that Jim has assembled and sent back to me to paint the back.

New head assembled with front painted

In this picture you can see the Fresnel lens mounted in the signal head better.  Jim tests all the heads after he has completed this step to be sure the LED's are working properly.  We have had about a 4% failure rate, but at least we are finding out before everything is completed.  It will much harder to replace after the bridge is completely assembled.

Next I will explain a little about the testing board that Jim built to test signal boards (both the older ones and the new ones), the interlocking boards, and all the signals and LED's after they are completed before installing on the layout.  The plan is to build and test everything possible at the work bench before it's installed on or under the layout.

Art

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Images (5)
  • Fresnel lens compared to a dime
  • Signal heads spray painted black before removal from holder
  • Painted heads removed from painting jig
  • New head front painted
  • New head assembled with front painted
Last edited by Chugman

Alan - I agree that Jim is a perfectionist when it comes to his wiring.  So are you in regard to the quality of your 3D printing.  I'm not sure how I could be so lucky as to have you as a friend and Jim as my son, but I am pleased and grateful.  It makes this project so much more fun and doable.  Thanks!

Art

LT1Poncho - Thanks for going on this journey with us.

Bob - I never thought about Fresnel lens being used in theatrical uses, but it makes sense.  My friend David uses PRR position signals on his model railroad.  He is color blind and can't tell the colors on my searchlights.  I wonder how many real railroaders have or had that same problem?

Art

The next step in our signal bridge program was figuring out the best way to attach the poles with the heads or targets on them to the bridge structure.  Alan had an idea and designed and printed a "saddle bracket" that fits over the top of the Lionel 450 signal bridges.  He made it to look like the design of the sides of the Lionel bridge.  It was secure and very easy to attach to the bridge structure.  Here is his design picture.

Alan's original bridge bracket design

It was a very clever design so we checked it out.

Original bridge bracket design

It is not painted black in this picture which makes it stand out more than it would after it was painted.

Original bridge bracket design 2

It had a lot going for it, but it just didn't look quite right to me.  We talked about it.  I wasn't exactly sure what bothered me about it, but it didn't look realistic enough to me.  I was reminded that the Lionel bridge isn't exactly an accurate scale model either, but I still felt that it looked pretty good when it was painted and weathered.  I just felt that there had to be a better way  So, we went back to brain storming about it.

Art

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  • Alan's original bridge bracket design
  • Original bridge bracket design
  • Original bridge bracket design 2
Last edited by Chugman

The problem with how best to attach the signal heads to the bridge structure stopped our progress for awhile.  I looked at as many pictures of real bridges as I could to give me ideas and inspiration.  I was looking only at searchlight style bridges and favored railroads that operated in or near Chicago.  Here is a picture that I took in Rochelle, IL that shows the type bridges that I was looking for.

UPRochelleJun122002



We decided that the signal heads would be mounted on vertical poles made of brass pipe with an OD of 5/32".  It occurred to me that maybe we should make wood walkways for the top of the bridge with loops on the side to hold the poles?  If we added another piece on the bottom of the bridge deck it would have loops to hold the poles and keep them perpendicular.  Alan said he could cut them on his laser cutter and make them precise and all alike.  My son Jim said he could do that on his also.  Before you knew it, Alan had a set for us to try.

Signal bridge template and unpainted walkways

Jim made templates for all the bridges we needed to make.  Here is one of the templates with a set of walkways that Alan had cut on his laser cutter.  You may also notice that he has pre-drilled the holes to accept railings and maintenance platforms when we add the final details.  I inspect the template and cut off any un-needed loops that hold the poles.  This template only has heads on one side, so I cut off the loops that were on the other side.

Prototyping bridge design 2



We laid one walkway with a triple head signal pole on top of one of the bridges I still had on my layout from a previous project.  We just wanted to see if we liked it.  It passed the test and we had another major decision made on our quest for signal bridges.

Art

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Images (4)
  • Signal bridge template and unpainted walkways
  • Prototyping bridge design 2
  • Prototyping bridge design
  • UPRochelleJun122002
Last edited by Chugman

Dave - Thanks, this project is a lot of work, but it's fun.

The picture you asked about I had to remove because it was one I didn't take myself.  I was in a hurry and screwed up by using that picture that I had in a folder that wasn't mine.  It was taken right at the double diamonds in Rochelle,  IL by the railroad park.  I don't know the speed limit, but it has to be slow there.

I've taken a lot of pictures there in the past I need to find them for future use.

Art

The adding of walkways on top of the Lionel 450 signal bridges satisfied me that it looked realistic enough.  And after I dry brushed the individual planks on top it looked even better I thought.  So Alan laser cut all the walkways that our plans called for.  He cut different lengths for the three different sizes, double-track, triple-track, and extra length for bridges located on curves.  All have loops on both sides and I cut off the loops that weren't needed based on the diagrams for each bridge.

Unpainted walkways

After cutting the unwanted loops off, I sprayed all the walkways with Rustoleum Camo Black.  I then cable-tied them to the bridge structure with the name of the bridge and delivered them to Jim to attach them and add the signal heads.

Bridges painted with walkways

The first bridge that Jim completed and brought back to the layout was for West end of the Chicago Union Station interlocking block.  This first picture shows what it looked like before we did the final paint job on the brass poles and posed it in front of my REA building which is just down the track from it's final location.  We still have to paint the brass poles and do a final check on the LED's before it's installed on the layout.  But it's coming together and I like the way it's looking.

First assembled bridge 1

Here's another picture of it temporarily placed in it's final location.  The tape on the tracks are so we can easily see where we cut the gaps in the tracks for the end of one block and the beginning of the next.  This will assure that the signal lights change exactly when a train passes this bridge.  You can also see the edge of the first signal board cluster sitting on the tracks.

First bridge temporarily at final location

Now we were ready to start producing the signal bridges using this prototype. 

Art

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Images (4)
  • Unpainted walkways
  • Bridges painted with walkways
  • First assembled bridge 1
  • First bridge temporarily at final location

I'd worry more about whether or not the engineer heading toward that signal under the road above has x-ray vision.  Otherwise, he/she will be well past the signal before the signal head is ever seen.  Maybe put that signal head on the bridge support, down underneath the height of the overhead roadway?

Chuck

@Bob posted:

Looking good, but, aren't your signal maintainers going to revolt over the lack of handrails along the walkway?  One gust of wind and they're on the tracks!

Bob, you are right and since Chicago is known as the "Windy City" we will get that done.   We have had a little internal debate about the railings.  The first ones were made with rounded corners and I didn't think that looked realistic enough.  So, we are going to make the permanent ones with square corners instead. 

Art

@PRR1950 posted:

I'd worry more about whether or not the engineer heading toward that signal under the road above has x-ray vision.  Otherwise, he/she will be well past the signal before the signal head is ever seen.  Maybe put that signal head on the bridge support, down underneath the height of the overhead roadway?

Chuck

Chuck - You are very observant.  This is another area where we have had a lively debate about.  The original plan was to have a half-staff mast signal there so the engineer could see it, but the problem is that the "real engineer" holding the remote control then couldn't see it.  We also talked about having both with one of them being a repeater signal that would show the same aspect.  The jury is still out on the final resolution of this issue.

Art

@Bob posted:

Sounds good on the railings.  For the obstructed overhead signal, my vote would be for a pedestal-mounted dwarf on the platform, right in front of the signal bridge.  Here's an example:

https://live.staticflickr.com/...480_205b85b291_c.jpg

Sorry for the Pennsy-style signal, but, you know... 

Bob that is very likely what we will do eventually.  In fact it was suggested by our real railroad expert, David, so I guess that's an example of "great minds think alike". 

Art

Here are a couple pictures of the second assembled bridge mock-up.  This is a two-track bridge, but it is not sitting in it's proper location nor does it have the right heads in the correct location on the bridge.  It does have the new improved railings without the rounded corners.  This is primarily another test of the concept to make sure we are on the right track.

Second assembled bridge 1Second assembled bridge 2

Art

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  • Second assembled bridge 1
  • Second assembled bridge 2
Last edited by Chugman

I am looking for your explanations of the signaling plan for various track configurations and interlocking in this thread.

How you decided on which signal(s) to use where and how the Atlas boards were employed to accomplish the signaling.


Is that asking too much??


I still dont fully grasp the signaling concepts even after reading several signaling texts.


I think, like me, everyone on OGRR is interested in signaling; going beyond a triggered isolated rail that trips a relay that changes the signal from green to red. [I can even do that!]


If you can explain this to me like "Signaling for Dummies" , nice name for a book!


THAT would be great!
Last edited by AlanRail

@AlanRail,

While I am by no means an expert, I, like you, have an interest in the process.  I have found two sources of information to be very useful.  First is Railway-signaling.groups.io (I suspect this is not the proper nomenclature, but you get the idea) which primarily discusses prototype signaling.  Second is a now defunct website (you might be able to locate it using the Wayback Machine website) created by Terry Christopher who owned Custom Signals.  He sold (and installed, I think) signals for model railroads, mostly HO gauge, but as part of his sales service, he provided both installation location and wiring directions for many varied track configurations.

I have attached a couple of examples of what used to be on his website so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about.  Unfortunately, if you locate his list of available configuration discussions, you will find a couple that never got completed before he retired.  Oh well!

One last comment I would make is that how you implement signaling on your railroad depends on several factors including how faithful to any particular prototype you wish to remain, the size and complexity of your track plan, your electrical expertise (that's where I really appreciated Terry's knowledge), and, of course, how much you are willing to invest in time and money.

Chuck

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Last edited by PRR1950

Chuck - Thanks for adding to the discussion.  This is a subject that I think can be very intimidating to all of us at first.  I am going to try as per Alan's request to make it as simple as I can, but do not claim to be an expert.  As you mentioned, there are several books on the subject, but the one that helped me the most was "Guide to Signals and Interlockings" by Dave Abeles.  The other huge help to me was learning from a real railroad expert who could directly answer my questions and explain things to me so I could more easily understand them.  And lastly, talking to my son, Jim who has a stronger understanding of this subject than I do.  His background in electronics and logic circuits is a huge help in making this work the way it's supposed to.  I will soon post my attempt at simplifying everything and how we went about it so far.

Art   

I still get a little confused about the exact name of the system we are implementing, but it is basically designed to use the Atlas signal boards to do two things.

  • Show if there are any trains on the track ahead of you.
  • Which way the switches are thrown ahead of you.

To achieve the first objective, you divide your layout into blocks.  Then you cut gaps in the signal rail at the beginning and end of the blocks.  On my railroad, the signal rail is the outside common rail closest from the edge of the layout.   Then you solder a wire somewhere in that block as a detector wire that will connect to your Atlas signal boards.  This will tell the signal boards and the signals where trains are located.  If you are running trains bi-directionally, it will double the number of signals and signal boards as you will need a complete set for each direction of travel.  The number of blocks and detector wires will not change.

All switches on the mainline will need signals to tell the engineers what route they will take.  When you are approaching a switch, the signals will tell you which way the switch is thrown for and if there is a train on the selected route.  To accomplish this, you will have to add Atlas Interlocking signal boards.  It will require that you run wires from the switch to the interlocking boards.  The logic built into these boards will properly tell the signals which colors to display based on the conditions.

I will address how to read what the signals are telling us and how we are going to communicate that to our friends during operating sessions soon in another reply.  Also, how we chose what signals are needed in each location and why.  It is pretty easy once you understand the basic needs and logic.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

What the different colors of the signals mean is pretty straight forward.  I think most of us understand the basics:

Red signal means stop - There is a train in the block ahead or the switch is set for diverging to another track.

Yellow signal means the next block is clear - Be prepared to stop at the next signal.  The railroads call this signal an approach.

Green signal means clear - The next two blocks are clear.

If you have a double-headed signal

  • If the top signal is green, the track straight ahead is clear.  The next head below is for the next switch.  So, if you have a green over red, it means the track ahead is clear and you won't take the diverging route at the next switch.
  • If the top signal is red and the one below is green, it means the switch is set for the diverging route and it is clear.

If you have a triple-headed signal

  • It means the same as above, except there are two switches ahead instead of just one.  Which ever signal is green will mean that is the route you will take and it is clear.  As before a green signal means it's clear for two blocks ahead, but a yellow signal means it's clear for only one block ahead.  The first switch you come to is the second one below the top one.

There are many different modifications of the yellow or approach signal, such as flashing yellow.  Different railroads have different ways to give additional instructions such as with flashing yellow, flashing green, or flashing red.  They are for speed restrictions or to catch your attention.  But  we are only going to use flashing yellow at the entrances to my yards as a caution and because they look cool. 

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Here is a blow by blow description of how it was decided where to locate signals, how many heads were needed, and what type signals. 

First, David Hadley and I went around the entire layout and he made a diagram of the track plan and where signal heads were needed.  This was before everything had been officially named and some of the names changed later.  This first step was to locate where we needed signals.  The first page shows a 2-track mainline that first has a crossover and then a right-hand switch on the track on the left side.  (This is looking at the plan from the top down.)   The other mainline track on the right passes the crossover and has a left-hand switch which enters a 4 track passenger yard. (Chicago Union Station)

On the left mainline track it calls for 3 heads, one for the mainline, the next for the crossover, and the last for right-hand switch.  The colors on these three heads will tell which way the crossover and the right-hand switch are thrown.  It will also tell if there are any trains on the selected route.

On the right mainline track it calls for a 2 heads, one for the mainline and the next one for the left-hand switch that enters the yard.    All of these signals will be mounted on a 2-track signal bridge.

Further down is the location of a 3-track signal bridge just past the entrance switch to the yard.  On this bridge, the first track has one signal as there are no switches that it can take going forward.  It will be red, yellow, or green depending on occupancy of trains ahead of it.  The next track is exactly the same with the need for only one head.  The third track has 2 heads because it has a switch leading into the crossover so it will show if the switch is set for straight or diverging and indicate the occupancy of the selected route. 

The yard will have all dwarf signals with the one at the beginning of the yard a 2 head signal which will show the mainline and the switch leading into the crossover.  There will be four dwarfs in the yard, one on each track to indicate if track power is or not for the yardmaster.

The last 3 track bridge is bi-directional and just shows occupancy with singe heads over all tracks on each side.  (It originally was noted to have a cantilever bridge over two tracks and a half-staff signal due to special vision problems with this location, but was latter changed to a 3-track signal bridge.)

Original signal locations worksheet

This process was repeated foe every section of the layout.  When that was completed, My son, Jim entered all the data into a spreadsheet.  We then had to decide where all the blocks would be, had to number all the mainlines, number all the blocks, number all the signal heads and designate which direction they were facing, east or west.  That took a fair amount of time, but when it was done we could take an inventory of how many heads we needed, how many of each type and size of signal bridges and all the other types of signals.

Final signal location worksheet

We knew we had to make all the signal bridges so Jim made a design template for each bridge that we could use during the construction process so the left hand would know what the right hand was doing so to speak.  here is an example of the template for the first bridge described on these sheets.  It shows all the signal heads are on one side.  It has a 2-head and a 3-head facing in the same direction.  So Alan 3D printed the heads, Jim wired and assembled the heads, cut the brass poles,  I painted the Lionel 450 signal bridge, Alan laser cut the walkways, I removed the unneeded loops, painted the walkways, Jim assembled the heads and walkways to the bridge, I then masked and finish painted the bridges and individually painted the planks, and they were to have a final LED light check before installation.

CUS Interlocking bridge #1 design sheet

Here is a picture of this bridge installed on the layout, but not lit yet.  The railings, maintenance platforms, and pole end caps have not been added yet either.

Chicago Union Station Interlocking bridge 1

A methodical process then began to build all 11 bridges with a solid plan.  We knew who had to do what and in what order to bring it all together.  Of the team, two were still working at regular jobs and I was the only one retired.  As we kept saying about snags in our schedule "life gets in the way" and I had to remind myself that this is a hobby and we are doing it for fun.  Alan's office is an hour from me and Jim's home is 22 minutes from me, not too bad in a major metro area.  David is also retired and a half hour away.  Plus we meet regularly for "train luncheons" so that is another way to exchange materials and give each other updates.

Art

Attachments

Images (4)
  • Original signal locations worksheet
  • Final signal location worksheet
  • CUS Interlocking bridge #1 design sheet
  • Chicago Union Station Interlocking bridge 1

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