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I am back on the forum after a long absence and felt it was time to update everyone with the status of my layout.  I'm going to start by posting a few pictures.Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co

Milwaukee Road MP-15 switcher with a load of new John Deere tractors passing by Spencer Packing Co.

Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out

The Sinclair gas station has all hands on deck helping a cute young lady in her convertible.  The IGA store is being stocked by Borden's Milk and Wonder Bread while the Ruthven Baseball team is playing at Lost Island Field behind it.

Three Engines working the Eola Yard

The Eola Yard is busy today with three engines working it at the same time.  This is my newest classification yard where all trains bound for my Milwaukee Road branch line are staged and received.Union Station Streamliner Departures

Three name passenger trains are awaiting departure from Chicago's Union Station.

My plan is to add pictures on a regular basis.  The last pictures I posted were before much of my current scenery was completed and I hadn't ballasted any track yet.  I hope you enjoy them.

Art

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  • Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co
  • Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out
  • Three Engines working the Eola Yard
  • Union Station Streamliner Departures
Last edited by Chugman
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@Chugman posted:

I am back on the forum after a long absence and felt it was time to update everyone with the status of my layout.  I'm going to start by posting a few pictures.Milw MP15Ac at Spencer Packing Co

Milwaukee Road MP-15 switcher with a load of new John Deere tractors passing by Spencer Packing Co.

Sinclair Station & Sand Lot Field Lift-Out

The Sinclair gas station has all hands on deck helping a cute young lady in her convertible.  The IGA store is being stocked by Borden's Milk and Wonder Bread while the Ruthven Baseball team is playing at Lost Island Field behind it.

Three Engines working the Eola Yard

The Eola Yard is busy today with three engines working it at the same time.  This is my newest classification yard where all trains bound for my Milwaukee Road branch line are staged and received.Union Station Streamliner Departures

Three name passenger trains are awaiting departure from Chicago's Union Station.

My plan is to add pictures on a regular basis.  The last pictures I posted were before much of my current scenery was completed and I hadn't ballasted any track yet.  I hope you enjoy them.

Art

Nice looking layout!

I hope everyone is enjoying the Memorial Day weekend.  Here is a few more pictures.

Santa Fe El Captitan at Casey's House in Savanna

Casey Jones Jr. is retired and waited for his grandkids to get home from school as the afternoon Santa Fe El Capitan blast across the crossing by his home.  Casey lives in Savanna, IL on the banks of the Mississippi River on the Great River Road.Train Time at Union Station 4

It's train time at Chicago's Union Station with the name passenger trains ready for departure on the lower level and the Metra is arriving on the upper level with passengers from the suburbs.  Lou Mitchel's restaurant is busy and based on the limo may even have a famous guest.  A Greyhound Scenicruiser is waiting at the grade crossing with even more passengers heading to catch a train.

BNSF Intermodal on Stone Arch Bridge

A BNSF Intermodal train blasts out of a tunnel and heads across the double-track stone arch bridge while a family is enjoying camping on the shores of the lake below.  It looks like they are getting a head start on the Memorial Day weekend and have found the perfect spot.

Art

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  • Santa Fe El Captitan at Casey's House in Savanna
  • Train Time at Union Station 4
  • BNSF Intermodal on Stone Arch Bridge

Mark - I am modeling he Midwest and primarily Illinois and Iowa, but some in Kansas too.  Thanks my Chicago Union Station is such a small representation of the real thing, but I tried to capture as much as I could of the excitement and drama of the real thing.

Tom - That's right modeling scenes from the memories of my past makes it more fun and meaningful to me.  You have a great memory my friend.

Alex- Thanks I've always appreciated your support.

Art

As Tom mentioned, I like to model events from my past that have special meaning to me.  Here are a few examples of that:

H & N Chevy & Amtrak Carl Sandberg

This is my home town of Spencer, Iowa.  I met my wife for the first in front of H & N Chevrolet and all the buildings have special meanings and memories.

Claude Goren at Spencer Coast To Coast Store

This shows Claude Goren a brother of the famous bridge player, Charles Goren, walking to the Spencer Senior Center to play bridge.  He is in front of the Coast to Coast store which is where my first Lionel train and bicycle were purchased.  A Milwaukee Road switcher is busy handling cars at the local businesses.

Miss Iowa Parade in Downtown Ruthven

This my wife's home town of Ruthven, Iowa where a parade is taking place as a part of the Miss Iowa Pageant  of 1960 which she was in. 

Meat Train & C&NW Steam Passenger at Mississippi River

We are just in time to catch a glimpse of the Milwaukee Road's meat train passing over the high bridge over the Mississippi River.  From our position on a bluff above the Great River Road we see the C&NW local passenger train and a family canoeing down the river.  I used to watch the meat train switch cars while my parents were playing cards with friends that lived close to the tracks.  The crew was so friendly to me that I have always had a good relationship with train crews.

Art

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  • H & N Chevy & Amtrak Carl Sandberg
  • Claude Goren at Spencer Coast To Coast Store
  • Miss Iowa Parade in Downtown Ruthven
  • Meat Train & C&NW Steam Passenger at Mississippi River

I have had computer problems, but hopefully am back in business again.  Here are three more pictures.

City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

UP's City of Los Angeles is passing under a signal bridge on the Race Track beside by Eola freight yard.

Eola Engine Service Area 1

My Eola freight yard just has a small engine servicing area where engines are refueled and crews are changed.  It is a BNSF classification yard, but it is my interchange point with my Milwaukee Road branch line that serves Northwest Iowa.  It is the Chicago terminus for my meat train that runs every week from Sioux Falls, SD and picks up reefers from Spencer Pack and Morrell Pack.

UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

A UP unit coal train and a BNSF intermodal wait for clear boards on the signal bridge outside my Proviso freight yard.  It must be a weekday as the trains usually stack up waiting to get into the Chicago area yards with all the Metra commuter activity and heavy freight traffic.  Ay least the weather looks good and isn't contributing to the delays.

Art

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  • City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track
  • Eola Engine Service Area 1
  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

My wife survived a widow maker heart attack a week ago Friday night so we have all been pulled away from our normal lives.  We are extremely lucky that we didn't lose her.  I praise the EMT's, the doctors and nurses, and especially the Lord for this.

I will resume posting some pictures when things get a little more back to normal.  Here is one though in the meantime.

City of LA at Bike Shop Tunnel

The UP City of Los Angeles emerges from a tunnel approaching Wichita, KS on it's journey to the west coast from Chicago.

Art

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  • City of LA at Bike Shop Tunnel

I'm going to post a few more pictures before I get into future plans and our new project. 

20190328_124723

This is my rendition of the Band Box Theater from my home town of Spencer, Iowa.   As a young boy we would go to the Saturday afternoon double-header movies for ten cents.  There would always be a Superman serial that ran before the feature films where he would get into some jam that it seemed impossible for him to get out.  You would have to attend next week to find out what happened.  Usually at least one of the movies was a cowboy and Indian one and we would have to go home and get out our cap guns and re-enact it.  Great memories!

spencer nights1

Another Spencer business was Sportsmen's of Spencer that carried not only all kinds of sporting goods, but also train sets at Christmas time.  Here we see Hilda waiting for her ride home after a long day of cleaning offices.  Doctor Kinderdine, the local dentist, is reading the Spencer Daily Reporter while waiting for his wife so they can go out for dinner at Stub's House of Plenty downtown.

ruthven night1

In the nearby town of Ruthven, Iowa the sun is going down while the local policeman is keeping a close eye on the American Legion prior to tonight's bingo game.   The lights are still bright at Wigdahl's hardware next door serving farmers that need parts to keep their equipment running during the harvest.  The Farmer's Coop elevator and lumber yard are quiet and it looks like everyone has gone home for the day.

20190328_130456

Earlier in the afternoon the local Ruthven sandlot teams were enjoying a game of baseball at the diamond in Lost Island Park.  It looks like the Eaton Grease Gun factory has shut down for the day, but there are a lot of lights on at the Tangney Hotel, Spencer's tallest building.  (The baseball field is on a Styrofoam liftout for access to this section of the layout.)

Art

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  • 20190328_124723
  • spencer nights1
  • ruthven night1
  • 20190328_130456

Hope that everyone is having a good Fourth of July weekend so far.  Here are a few more pictures.

BNSF Dash 8 on Mississippi Bridge

As a BNSF Intermodal passes over a through truss bridge over the Mississippi River, it's a pretty July day on the Great River Road just below.  Traffic needs to be careful though as an Iowa Highway Patrolman has a speed trap setup behind the Hamm's Beer billboard waiting for any speeders. 

City of LA at Savanna Station

Meanwhile on this beautiful summer day, the UP City of LA is pulling into the Savannah, IL station.   There must be summer school as we see a school bus crossing over the Mississippi River bridge from Sabula, IA.  The local Savannah police car is at the station, I hope there isn't any major problems.

El Cap on Race Track at Signal Bridge

The Santa Fe El Capitan is passing the Eola Yard on the Race Track on it's journey back to Chicago from the West Coast.  The yard is fuller than usual today and the yardmaster will have his hands full getting trains out to make room for the scheduled arrival of the Milwaukee Road meat train.

Art

 

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  • BNSF Dash 8 on Mississippi Bridge
  • City of LA at Savanna Station
  • El Cap on Race Track at Signal Bridge

Thanks, Peter.

Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears.  That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up.  "From the land of sky blue waters"  I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it.  My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason.  I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.

Art

@Chugman posted:

Thanks, Peter.

Jim, I used to love the Hamm's Beer ads with the dancing bears.  That was one of the most popular beers in NW Iowa where I grew up.  "From the land of sky blue waters"  I remember Dinah Shore singing about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, and Chevrolet.

Nikhil - I used to belong to the TCA and I did attend one York and loved it.  My so Jim has made it to several, but I haven't for some reason.  I used to say everyone should go to at least one and I still believe it.

Art

@Chugman Wow, that's awesome! You ever plan on going back to the show?

As I have been focusing on improving my operating sessions, I felt the need to add more passenger stations to the layout.  My name trains like the California Zephyr stop at just the main stations, but the local passenger train stops at all stations and even one flag stop at Sabula.  Here are some pictures of stations I recently added.

Plano station

This is my Plano station on the first day that it opened for business.  You can see that there is still landscaping and lighting that needs to be added, but with five people waiting for the first train it was an encouraging start.

LaGrange station

LaGrange added a station too and was not to be outdone on first day crowds.  Again landscaping and parking lot lights need to be added, but that didn't keep commuters away.  Even Railway Express was in business.

Wichita station looking west

Wichita's new station has opened as well.  The local is seen just as it departs after making a station stop.  The location seems a little suspect with such a large grain elevator complex next door, the train always seems to bring excitement and paying passengers.

Art

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  • Plano station
  • LaGrange station
  • Wichita station looking west

Thanks Mark.  A new train buddy of mine is modeling all the railroads that served Cincinnati.  He is modeling both freight and passenger, but he loves to switch cars to make up passenger trains.  He and some of his real railroad friends know the exact consist of actual passenger trains are replicating it on his railroad.  Very cool and opens up a whole new area of the hobby  My layout is not setup to do that so I run complete trains without changed the cars.

Art

I have been thinking a lot about how to improve my operating sessions.  Recent discussions with a new train friend, David Hadley, convinced me to start running trains bi-directionally on my double-track mainlines.  To prevent total chaos with trains running towards each other on the same track, it was decided that I needed a working realistic signal system that we can actually run trains by. 

I wanted the signal system when we first built the layout, but the expense, complications, and lack of good signal bridges prevented me from pursuing it.  Terry Christopher of Custom Signals even made a signal location plan for me that I still have. 

I discussed all of this with my train friends and we came up with a plan.  There is so much talent among them we decided on a team approach. 

Signal Project Team Members:

We will be assisted by David Hadley, a former railroad consultant and operations-oriented railroader for 32 years of his career.  He also has a working signal system on his layout that uses Atlas “Pennsy” style position light signals.  He helped us develop what signals were needed to operate the layout as realistically as possible.  He explained to us where and why we should place the signals to best achieve our operational goals.  

My son, Jim Williams, who loves trains as much as I do.  He brought the knowledge of being an electrician, a layout builder, and a love for signals to the project.  We originally planned my layout to have an Atlas signal system that we could actually run trains by, but it was side tracked by a number of issues.  He is doing everything from making the signal bridges, wiring all the LED’s in the targets, to designing and installing all the signal and interlocking boards.

A close friend, Alan Nelson, known as AlanRail on the OGR forum, is fellow model railroader and has developed the skills to make just about anything with his 3D printers and laser cutters.  His background as a structural engineer has also been a big asset for our project.  As I have researched real signals, Alan has made extremely accurate 3D designs and printed them.  He has also created special boards to hold heads for painting, jigs for drilling properly aligned holes for heads on brass poles, researched special glues to assemble signals, and numerous other tasks critical to the project.

Another long-time friend, Steve Horvath of Atlas, encouraged us and has provided valuable knowledge in figuring out the sometimes-complex wiring and logic involved with developing our system.  He has helped us locate key Atlas components and is always a phone call away when we need help.

My grandson and Jim’s oldest son, Doug Williams joined our group and has been a huge asset in helping with under the layout wiring, wiring signal board clusters, and is looking forward to operating sessions after it is operational.

And lastly myself who will fund, access materials, coordinate, paint and weather bridges, and hopefully keep things moving.

I will start posting pictures and reports of our progress.

Art

Art,

I will be following along with this closely. I actually went with the Custom Signal product and have everything installed. Right now I am doing a bit of trouble shooting to get everything working properly. It has definitely been a learning curve for me but, just like you, I know it will add a nice level of realism that is often times omitted.

Dave

Dave, we are just beginning to install signal board clusters and lighting the signals that have been installed on the layout.  We have six signal bridges to build and install on the lower level.  All detector wires have been soldered to the rails, but we haven't connected any to the boards yet.   And we have not connected the wires from the Tortoise to the interlocking boards yet either.   We aren't sure what problems or issues we may have yet, but are optimistic.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Bob, I'm still learning the terminology, but I think ours will be more of a CTC style operation.  The dispatcher or tower operator will set the switches which will alert and guide the engineers if they will taking the diverting or straight route through the crossovers and passing sidings.  And the occupancy feature will tell them if the path is clear, approach, or stop.  We are using a one block approach and not a two block one due to the size of the layout.  I'm relying on my real railroad expert to teach me the terminology and systems.  Boy does he have a challenge!

Beautiful picture of your layout.  Wish I lived closer, I would love to attend one your sessions.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

I was visiting with my son Jim yesterday and he corrected me on my statement regarding our one block approach.  He said we are using a two block approach instead of a three block approach.  I'm not 100% sure what difference that makes, but I just wanted to correct my error.  All of this is a big learning experience for me, but I am loving the ride so far.

Art

I found that there is a lot of background information necessary to develop a signal system.  Many decisions need to be made to get the project off on a sound footing.  Examples are:

  • What style of signals - We chose searchlights.
  • What system will drive the signals - We chose Atlas signal and interlocking boards as most realistic and easiest to use.
  • How many blocks and where are do they start and end - We ended up with 11 on the lower level, each mainline  block has to have a name and number.
  • Every location has to be named - More involved that you might think.  Yards, towns, interlockings, everything has to have a name.
  • Each signal aspect's location has to be identified - Usually four at every mainline switch location for example.  At the beginning and end of each block and etc.
  • An inventory of what is needed - You have to determine what is available and what must be made.  All our signal bridges had to be made and we couldn't fine enough Atlas searchlight mast signals.  Plus we ended up wanting a cantilever to solve a real estate problem and three bracket signals for the same reason and they had to be made.
  • Do we have the talent and resources needed -  That is where our team approach came in.

A rather daunting list for any one individual, but a team can break it into more manageable segments.  I learned a long time ago that this hobby is more fun when it is shared.  I not only couldn't do this alone and when it is done, I can't and don't want to operate it alone.  Yes, I can still run trains around the layout in a realistic fashion with no help and the signals will change as trains pass them, but the true fun and excitement will only happen when it is operated by a group of us.

Just my two cents worth.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Flyboy62 that's a lot of signal boards and wiring.  I see that you chose to cluster all your boards together rather than have them located in high density areas of the layout.  We opted to go the other route, but I'm sure either works well.  Have you used the new interlocking boards?  What type of layout do you have?  Double-track or single-track mainlines?  I have 11 blocks on each mainline of the double track for 22 and then the upper level which will have another 7 I believe.

Thanks for joining the conversation.

Art

Art:   I have 3 main lines of which two parallel each other for a portion of the layout.  What we did was to secure an 8 (or 10) post terminal barrier block beneath each Atlas switch on the layout.  We than ran Cat 5 wiring back to our area at the back of the layout we had the boards mounted.  We then punched all of the wire into telephone style 66 blocks.  Each switch uses 5 wires (3 for the switch and 2 detects).  That left 3 wires for miscellaneous purposes.  In some cases we drove relays that were installed adjacent to the barrier blocks to switch center contacts on the switch to power the center of the switches to avoid arcing.  We also installed an additional 15 or so barrier blocks around the bottom of the layout and terminated them in an adjacent area and punched them down also.  This wires are used for running accessories or switching accessories on and off remotely.  This made adding items quite easy and avoided having long runs when we wanted to add a powered accessory.

We did the same thing for our lighting albeit we used heavier wiring.  All of our lighting is fed by six 18vac transformers.  Lots of amperage.

Adjacent to the boards mounted in the back we have 11 Lionel LCS switch modules which drive the Atlas 6924 boards so that we can control the switches via CAB2 or an iPad.

While it sounds very busy it really was quite simple once we thought our the schema.

Good luck on your project.  I know you and your son will have great results.



dick

Larry, thanks a lot.  I seem to recall that you have a very nice layout as well.  It's fun to share on this forum.  I have noticed that every time I visit someone's layout, I learn something from it.  It doesn't matter what scale it is or how many rails there are.

I hope my signal journey will be interesting and inspire others to start their projects as well.

Art

Dick, thanks for the additional information on your system.  I'm impressed with people that are organized and knowledgeable in this hobby.  I know just enough about what you told me to appreciate what you have done, but don't ask me to repeat it.  My son, Jim, is my electrical guru with his years as a commercial electrician and a life-long model railroader.  I know we have what we call "power routed" my switches that we had trouble with engines stalling at slow speeds.  We used Atlas non-derail boards and Tortoise switch machines.  This combo gives plenty of connection points for my control panels and driving our Atlas signal and interlocking boards.  We use Lionel power bricks for good dependable power.  We power signals, switch machines, and any accessories with independent power and not track power.   

Art

One of the first decisions you have to make on a signal system is what style signals you will use.  I have always loved searchlights.  I checked and all the railroads that I model had them.

A second decision is which type of signals to use?  I have a double-track mainline that goes completely around my main or lower level and some areas where there are three tracks.  I refer to that as “the race track” a term used to describe the three-track mainline from downtown Chicago to Aurora, IL and the BNSF’s Eola freight yard.  Signal bridges are used extensively there and I want them on my layout as well.

As many of you know, there are a few choices for O scale signal bridges, but each as their strong and weak points.  I won’t name them all, but they are easy to find.

My layout before starting this new project had a few bridges on it and a few Atlas single target mast signals.  My son, Jim, and I talked about how to make our own.  He suggested upgrading a Lionel 450 bridge with new LED lights.  He did and I painted and lightly weathered the bridge structure.  It wasn’t a precision, detailed masterpiece, but it didn’t look too bad either.  And I found out after we installed one on my layout that you didn’t spend that much time examining the bridge structure, but it was very cool to see the lights and watch them change as a train passed.  Another thing that I liked was that it was a metal bridge and when screwed to the layout was “rock solid”.  I liked that, so we built some more.  They used detector wires soldered to the outside rail blocks of track.  They were powered by relays that Jim installed.

We began picking up the Lionel 450 bridges at local train shows for reasonable prices.  We didn’t care if they worked or not, we just wanted the bridge structure.

All this was just setting the stage for me wanting to go beyond this first step.  I wanted searchlight signals that displayed three colors, not just red and green.  We wanted to know how many blocks ahead were clear or approach lighting.

This will be addressed and explained as we move along, but I wanted to show a few pictures of what the old signals that I just described looked like on the layout.

UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard

City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

With the structure of the bridge decided, our next task was to find or make searchlight targets to mount on the bridges.  More on that as when the story continues.

Art

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  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard
  • UP & BNSF at Signal Bridge waiting to enter Proviso Yard
  • City of LA at Signal Bridge on Race Track

Next we needed an inventory of how many bridges we would need.  The initial count came up with seven 2-track bridges, six 3-track bridges, and two 2 1/2-track bridges.  The 2 1/2-track bridges are wider 2-track bridges that had to be placed on curves.  We checked clearances and the normal 2-track bridges weren't wide enough.  Plus one cantilever bridge and three bracket signal bridges for the upper level.

My son Jim made all these bridge structures from the Lionel 450 signal bridges.  It took two 2-track bridges to make each 3-track bridge.  It turns out that we had collected just enough of these used Lionel bridges.  Once these were all fabricated Jim gave them to me to paint a dull black (Rustoleum Camo Black) and lightly over-sprayed with a rust color for weathering.   When this was done I gave them back to Jim so he could build and mount the signal heads. 

Here is a picture of the bridges during the painting process.  The 3-track bridge at the bottom right does not have legs as it will be mounted to the side of a highway bridge in our Chicago Junction block.

Bridges being painted and weathered

Art

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  • Bridges being painted and weathered

Searchlight signals in O gauge are hard to find, so we determined that we would have to make our own.  Alan offered to design and 3D print them.

We next needed to find LED’s that would provide the color accuracy and distinct three colors of red, green, and yellow.  My son Jim and Alan started searching for LED’s and ordered the best candidates that they could find.  Jim found some good ones, but they required us to solder the wires to them.  They were so small that it was a very difficult task.  Meanwhile Alan ordered some from a Chinese supplier online called Wehonest which were already wired.  Jim and Alan tested them for color accuracy and they looked very good.

The next issue was how best to mount them inside the heads.  Alan’s first design looked great, but proved to be difficult to install the LED’s in.  Alan’s next innovation was great.  He designed and 3D printed a Fresnel lens to glue the LED’s to.  He then redesigned the heads in two pieces and the Fresnel lens fit snuggly inside the head.  I didn’t know what a Fresnel lens was before this, but this is what real railroads use on their signals too.  It focuses, directs, and intensifies the light.  They are also used in our traffic lights for the same reasons.

Alan recommended a special glue to install them and we had our searchlight head problem solved.  I ordered enough LED’s to make all our signal heads, Alan printed all the heads and Fresnel lens, and Jim started assembling them in a production mode.

Here are a few pictures.

LED lens assembly ready to put in signal head

LED's with four wires attached to provide the three colors.  Red, green, yellow, and black for common.

Final 3D head design

Alan's final two piece head design.  The head is designed to slide on a brass pole.  The back is glued on after the LED's are installed in the head.

Fresnel lens backside

Alan's design for the backs of the Fresnel lens.  The LED's fit perfectly into the cavity on the back.

Fresnel lens design

The front of the Fresnel lens.

LED testing

Jim holding a LED to show it's size.  They are very small to work with.

Disassembled Atlas signal

A disassembled Atlas signal for comparison. 

Now we have about 75 heads to build, paint, and find the best way to install them to the signal bridges.

Art

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Images (6)
  • LED lens assembly ready to put in signal head
  • Final 3D head design
  • Fresnel lens backside
  • Fresnel lens design
  • LED testing
  • Disassembled Atlas signal

Here are a few more pictures of the signal heads or aspects as they are being assembled.

Fresnel lens compared to a dime

This picture shows a couple Fresnel lens, the one on the left shows the back side and the pocket that the LED goes into.  The lens on the right is the front that faces out.  You can see the circular lines.  The dime is for size comparison so you can see how small these components are which makes them harder to work with.

Signal heads spray painted black before removal from holder

This is a painting jig that Alan made to make it easier to paint the heads.  Alan's ingenuity never ceases to amaze me.  I insert the heads in the jig and spray them black.  Then after they are dry, I remove them and send them to my son Jim.  He glues the LED assembly into the Fresnel lens and that into the signal head.  Then he glues the back of the signal head on and returns them to me to paint the backs in the jig.

Painted heads removed from painting jig

This pictures shows some heads removed from the painting jig and ready to send to Jim.

New head front painted

Here is a head that Jim has assembled and sent back to me to paint the back.

New head assembled with front painted

In this picture you can see the Fresnel lens mounted in the signal head better.  Jim tests all the heads after he has completed this step to be sure the LED's are working properly.  We have had about a 4% failure rate, but at least we are finding out before everything is completed.  It will much harder to replace after the bridge is completely assembled.

Next I will explain a little about the testing board that Jim built to test signal boards (both the older ones and the new ones), the interlocking boards, and all the signals and LED's after they are completed before installing on the layout.  The plan is to build and test everything possible at the work bench before it's installed on or under the layout.

Art

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Images (5)
  • Fresnel lens compared to a dime
  • Signal heads spray painted black before removal from holder
  • Painted heads removed from painting jig
  • New head front painted
  • New head assembled with front painted
Last edited by Chugman

Alan - I agree that Jim is a perfectionist when it comes to his wiring.  So are you in regard to the quality of your 3D printing.  I'm not sure how I could be so lucky as to have you as a friend and Jim as my son, but I am pleased and grateful.  It makes this project so much more fun and doable.  Thanks!

Art

LT1Poncho - Thanks for going on this journey with us.

Bob - I never thought about Fresnel lens being used in theatrical uses, but it makes sense.  My friend David uses PRR position signals on his model railroad.  He is color blind and can't tell the colors on my searchlights.  I wonder how many real railroaders have or had that same problem?

Art

The next step in our signal bridge program was figuring out the best way to attach the poles with the heads or targets on them to the bridge structure.  Alan had an idea and designed and printed a "saddle bracket" that fits over the top of the Lionel 450 signal bridges.  He made it to look like the design of the sides of the Lionel bridge.  It was secure and very easy to attach to the bridge structure.  Here is his design picture.

Alan's original bridge bracket design

It was a very clever design so we checked it out.

Original bridge bracket design

It is not painted black in this picture which makes it stand out more than it would after it was painted.

Original bridge bracket design 2

It had a lot going for it, but it just didn't look quite right to me.  We talked about it.  I wasn't exactly sure what bothered me about it, but it didn't look realistic enough to me.  I was reminded that the Lionel bridge isn't exactly an accurate scale model either, but I still felt that it looked pretty good when it was painted and weathered.  I just felt that there had to be a better way  So, we went back to brain storming about it.

Art

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  • Alan's original bridge bracket design
  • Original bridge bracket design
  • Original bridge bracket design 2
Last edited by Chugman

The problem with how best to attach the signal heads to the bridge structure stopped our progress for awhile.  I looked at as many pictures of real bridges as I could to give me ideas and inspiration.  I was looking only at searchlight style bridges and favored railroads that operated in or near Chicago.  Here is a picture that I took in Rochelle, IL that shows the type bridges that I was looking for.

UPRochelleJun122002



We decided that the signal heads would be mounted on vertical poles made of brass pipe with an OD of 5/32".  It occurred to me that maybe we should make wood walkways for the top of the bridge with loops on the side to hold the poles?  If we added another piece on the bottom of the bridge deck it would have loops to hold the poles and keep them perpendicular.  Alan said he could cut them on his laser cutter and make them precise and all alike.  My son Jim said he could do that on his also.  Before you knew it, Alan had a set for us to try.

Signal bridge template and unpainted walkways

Jim made templates for all the bridges we needed to make.  Here is one of the templates with a set of walkways that Alan had cut on his laser cutter.  You may also notice that he has pre-drilled the holes to accept railings and maintenance platforms when we add the final details.  I inspect the template and cut off any un-needed loops that hold the poles.  This template only has heads on one side, so I cut off the loops that were on the other side.

Prototyping bridge design 2



We laid one walkway with a triple head signal pole on top of one of the bridges I still had on my layout from a previous project.  We just wanted to see if we liked it.  It passed the test and we had another major decision made on our quest for signal bridges.

Art

Attachments

Images (4)
  • Signal bridge template and unpainted walkways
  • Prototyping bridge design 2
  • Prototyping bridge design
  • UPRochelleJun122002
Last edited by Chugman

Dave - Thanks, this project is a lot of work, but it's fun.

The picture you asked about I had to remove because it was one I didn't take myself.  I was in a hurry and screwed up by using that picture that I had in a folder that wasn't mine.  It was taken right at the double diamonds in Rochelle,  IL by the railroad park.  I don't know the speed limit, but it has to be slow there.

I've taken a lot of pictures there in the past I need to find them for future use.

Art

The adding of walkways on top of the Lionel 450 signal bridges satisfied me that it looked realistic enough.  And after I dry brushed the individual planks on top it looked even better I thought.  So Alan laser cut all the walkways that our plans called for.  He cut different lengths for the three different sizes, double-track, triple-track, and extra length for bridges located on curves.  All have loops on both sides and I cut off the loops that weren't needed based on the diagrams for each bridge.

Unpainted walkways

After cutting the unwanted loops off, I sprayed all the walkways with Rustoleum Camo Black.  I then cable-tied them to the bridge structure with the name of the bridge and delivered them to Jim to attach them and add the signal heads.

Bridges painted with walkways

The first bridge that Jim completed and brought back to the layout was for West end of the Chicago Union Station interlocking block.  This first picture shows what it looked like before we did the final paint job on the brass poles and posed it in front of my REA building which is just down the track from it's final location.  We still have to paint the brass poles and do a final check on the LED's before it's installed on the layout.  But it's coming together and I like the way it's looking.

First assembled bridge 1

Here's another picture of it temporarily placed in it's final location.  The tape on the tracks are so we can easily see where we cut the gaps in the tracks for the end of one block and the beginning of the next.  This will assure that the signal lights change exactly when a train passes this bridge.  You can also see the edge of the first signal board cluster sitting on the tracks.

First bridge temporarily at final location

Now we were ready to start producing the signal bridges using this prototype. 

Art

Attachments

Images (4)
  • Unpainted walkways
  • Bridges painted with walkways
  • First assembled bridge 1
  • First bridge temporarily at final location

I'd worry more about whether or not the engineer heading toward that signal under the road above has x-ray vision.  Otherwise, he/she will be well past the signal before the signal head is ever seen.  Maybe put that signal head on the bridge support, down underneath the height of the overhead roadway?

Chuck

@Bob posted:

Looking good, but, aren't your signal maintainers going to revolt over the lack of handrails along the walkway?  One gust of wind and they're on the tracks!

Bob, you are right and since Chicago is known as the "Windy City" we will get that done.   We have had a little internal debate about the railings.  The first ones were made with rounded corners and I didn't think that looked realistic enough.  So, we are going to make the permanent ones with square corners instead. 

Art

@PRR1950 posted:

I'd worry more about whether or not the engineer heading toward that signal under the road above has x-ray vision.  Otherwise, he/she will be well past the signal before the signal head is ever seen.  Maybe put that signal head on the bridge support, down underneath the height of the overhead roadway?

Chuck

Chuck - You are very observant.  This is another area where we have had a lively debate about.  The original plan was to have a half-staff mast signal there so the engineer could see it, but the problem is that the "real engineer" holding the remote control then couldn't see it.  We also talked about having both with one of them being a repeater signal that would show the same aspect.  The jury is still out on the final resolution of this issue.

Art

@Bob posted:

Sounds good on the railings.  For the obstructed overhead signal, my vote would be for a pedestal-mounted dwarf on the platform, right in front of the signal bridge.  Here's an example:

https://live.staticflickr.com/...480_205b85b291_c.jpg

Sorry for the Pennsy-style signal, but, you know... 

Bob that is very likely what we will do eventually.  In fact it was suggested by our real railroad expert, David, so I guess that's an example of "great minds think alike". 

Art

Here are a couple pictures of the second assembled bridge mock-up.  This is a two-track bridge, but it is not sitting in it's proper location nor does it have the right heads in the correct location on the bridge.  It does have the new improved railings without the rounded corners.  This is primarily another test of the concept to make sure we are on the right track.

Second assembled bridge 1Second assembled bridge 2

Art

Attachments

Images (2)
  • Second assembled bridge 1
  • Second assembled bridge 2
Last edited by Chugman

I am looking for your explanations of the signaling plan for various track configurations and interlocking in this thread.

How you decided on which signal(s) to use where and how the Atlas boards were employed to accomplish the signaling.


Is that asking too much??


I still dont fully grasp the signaling concepts even after reading several signaling texts.


I think, like me, everyone on OGRR is interested in signaling; going beyond a triggered isolated rail that trips a relay that changes the signal from green to red. [I can even do that!]


If you can explain this to me like "Signaling for Dummies" , nice name for a book!


THAT would be great!
Last edited by AlanRail

@AlanRail,

While I am by no means an expert, I, like you, have an interest in the process.  I have found two sources of information to be very useful.  First is Railway-signaling.groups.io (I suspect this is not the proper nomenclature, but you get the idea) which primarily discusses prototype signaling.  Second is a now defunct website (you might be able to locate it using the Wayback Machine website) created by Terry Christopher who owned Custom Signals.  He sold (and installed, I think) signals for model railroads, mostly HO gauge, but as part of his sales service, he provided both installation location and wiring directions for many varied track configurations.

I have attached a couple of examples of what used to be on his website so you can get an idea of what I'm talking about.  Unfortunately, if you locate his list of available configuration discussions, you will find a couple that never got completed before he retired.  Oh well!

One last comment I would make is that how you implement signaling on your railroad depends on several factors including how faithful to any particular prototype you wish to remain, the size and complexity of your track plan, your electrical expertise (that's where I really appreciated Terry's knowledge), and, of course, how much you are willing to invest in time and money.

Chuck

Attachments

Last edited by PRR1950

Chuck - Thanks for adding to the discussion.  This is a subject that I think can be very intimidating to all of us at first.  I am going to try as per Alan's request to make it as simple as I can, but do not claim to be an expert.  As you mentioned, there are several books on the subject, but the one that helped me the most was "Guide to Signals and Interlockings" by Dave Abeles.  The other huge help to me was learning from a real railroad expert who could directly answer my questions and explain things to me so I could more easily understand them.  And lastly, talking to my son, Jim who has a stronger understanding of this subject than I do.  His background in electronics and logic circuits is a huge help in making this work the way it's supposed to.  I will soon post my attempt at simplifying everything and how we went about it so far.

Art   

I still get a little confused about the exact name of the system we are implementing, but it is basically designed to use the Atlas signal boards to do two things.

  • Show if there are any trains on the track ahead of you.
  • Which way the switches are thrown ahead of you.

To achieve the first objective, you divide your layout into blocks.  Then you cut gaps in the signal rail at the beginning and end of the blocks.  On my railroad, the signal rail is the outside common rail closest from the edge of the layout.   Then you solder a wire somewhere in that block as a detector wire that will connect to your Atlas signal boards.  This will tell the signal boards and the signals where trains are located.  If you are running trains bi-directionally, it will double the number of signals and signal boards as you will need a complete set for each direction of travel.  The number of blocks and detector wires will not change.

All switches on the mainline will need signals to tell the engineers what route they will take.  When you are approaching a switch, the signals will tell you which way the switch is thrown for and if there is a train on the selected route.  To accomplish this, you will have to add Atlas Interlocking signal boards.  It will require that you run wires from the switch to the interlocking boards.  The logic built into these boards will properly tell the signals which colors to display based on the conditions.

I will address how to read what the signals are telling us and how we are going to communicate that to our friends during operating sessions soon in another reply.  Also, how we chose what signals are needed in each location and why.  It is pretty easy once you understand the basic needs and logic.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

What the different colors of the signals mean is pretty straight forward.  I think most of us understand the basics:

Red signal means stop - There is a train in the block ahead or the switch is set for diverging to another track.

Yellow signal means the next block is clear - Be prepared to stop at the next signal.  The railroads call this signal an approach.

Green signal means clear - The next two blocks are clear.

If you have a double-headed signal

  • If the top signal is green, the track straight ahead is clear.  The next head below is for the next switch.  So, if you have a green over red, it means the track ahead is clear and you won't take the diverging route at the next switch.
  • If the top signal is red and the one below is green, it means the switch is set for the diverging route and it is clear.

If you have a triple-headed signal

  • It means the same as above, except there are two switches ahead instead of just one.  Which ever signal is green will mean that is the route you will take and it is clear.  As before a green signal means it's clear for two blocks ahead, but a yellow signal means it's clear for only one block ahead.  The first switch you come to is the second one below the top one.

There are many different modifications of the yellow or approach signal, such as flashing yellow.  Different railroads have different ways to give additional instructions such as with flashing yellow, flashing green, or flashing red.  They are for speed restrictions or to catch your attention.  But  we are only going to use flashing yellow at the entrances to my yards as a caution and because they look cool. 

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Here is a blow by blow description of how it was decided where to locate signals, how many heads were needed, and what type signals. 

First, David Hadley and I went around the entire layout and he made a diagram of the track plan and where signal heads were needed.  This was before everything had been officially named and some of the names changed later.  This first step was to locate where we needed signals.  The first page shows a 2-track mainline that first has a crossover and then a right-hand switch on the track on the left side.  (This is looking at the plan from the top down.)   The other mainline track on the right passes the crossover and has a left-hand switch which enters a 4 track passenger yard. (Chicago Union Station)

On the left mainline track it calls for 3 heads, one for the mainline, the next for the crossover, and the last for right-hand switch.  The colors on these three heads will tell which way the crossover and the right-hand switch are thrown.  It will also tell if there are any trains on the selected route.

On the right mainline track it calls for a 2 heads, one for the mainline and the next one for the left-hand switch that enters the yard.    All of these signals will be mounted on a 2-track signal bridge.

Further down is the location of a 3-track signal bridge just past the entrance switch to the yard.  On this bridge, the first track has one signal as there are no switches that it can take going forward.  It will be red, yellow, or green depending on occupancy of trains ahead of it.  The next track is exactly the same with the need for only one head.  The third track has 2 heads because it has a switch leading into the crossover so it will show if the switch is set for straight or diverging and indicate the occupancy of the selected route. 

The yard will have all dwarf signals with the one at the beginning of the yard a 2 head signal which will show the mainline and the switch leading into the crossover.  There will be four dwarfs in the yard, one on each track to indicate if track power is or not for the yardmaster.

The last 3 track bridge is bi-directional and just shows occupancy with singe heads over all tracks on each side.  (It originally was noted to have a cantilever bridge over two tracks and a half-staff signal due to special vision problems with this location, but was latter changed to a 3-track signal bridge.)

Original signal locations worksheet

This process was repeated foe every section of the layout.  When that was completed, My son, Jim entered all the data into a spreadsheet.  We then had to decide where all the blocks would be, had to number all the mainlines, number all the blocks, number all the signal heads and designate which direction they were facing, east or west.  That took a fair amount of time, but when it was done we could take an inventory of how many heads we needed, how many of each type and size of signal bridges and all the other types of signals.

Final signal location worksheet

We knew we had to make all the signal bridges so Jim made a design template for each bridge that we could use during the construction process so the left hand would know what the right hand was doing so to speak.  here is an example of the template for the first bridge described on these sheets.  It shows all the signal heads are on one side.  It has a 2-head and a 3-head facing in the same direction.  So Alan 3D printed the heads, Jim wired and assembled the heads, cut the brass poles,  I painted the Lionel 450 signal bridge, Alan laser cut the walkways, I removed the unneeded loops, painted the walkways, Jim assembled the heads and walkways to the bridge, I then masked and finish painted the bridges and individually painted the planks, and they were to have a final LED light check before installation.

CUS Interlocking bridge #1 design sheet

Here is a picture of this bridge installed on the layout, but not lit yet.  The railings, maintenance platforms, and pole end caps have not been added yet either.

Chicago Union Station Interlocking bridge 1

A methodical process then began to build all 11 bridges with a solid plan.  We knew who had to do what and in what order to bring it all together.  Of the team, two were still working at regular jobs and I was the only one retired.  As we kept saying about snags in our schedule "life gets in the way" and I had to remind myself that this is a hobby and we are doing it for fun.  Alan's office is an hour from me and Jim's home is 22 minutes from me, not too bad in a major metro area.  David is also retired and a half hour away.  Plus we meet regularly for "train luncheons" so that is another way to exchange materials and give each other updates.

Art

Attachments

Images (4)
  • Original signal locations worksheet
  • Final signal location worksheet
  • CUS Interlocking bridge #1 design sheet
  • Chicago Union Station Interlocking bridge 1

In talking to Jim last night, he told me of a few typos he discovered, a couple facts that I had backwards, and a misunderstanding that I shared.  I mistakenly gave the impression that you had to use Atlas Non-derail Boards or Tortoise switch machines with the new Atlas Interlocking Boards.  You do not, you can run wires from any switch machine or switch to them.  I have all Atlas track and switches and we started using the Atlas Non-derail Boards for "power routing" to eliminate dead spots when running some engines slowly over certain switches or combinations of switches.  It is not necessary for signaling purposes. 

Art

We have 6 more bridges to build and install on the layout.  Jim has gotten four of them ready for me to do the final paint job on and they will be ready to install.  He has two left to build, but is waiting for more shrink wrap as he ran out.  Getting the wires from the heads down through the structure has taken a lot more than he anticipated.   We have also been mounting Atlas searchlight single target mast signals and a few Custom signals searchlight double target mast signals.

Jim and Doug have a number of signal board clusters built and mounted under the layout.  We will soon be able to light up some of the signals, which I am very eager to see happen. 

I plan to show pictures of some of the signal bridges when we get the lights turned on soon.  And I will start sharing the process of designing and building the signal board clusters also.   Jim and Doug both have very busy schedules and can only work on the project on certain evenings and some weekends.  Patience has never been one of my strong points, but things are coming along well.

Art

We are starting to get the signal bridges installed on the layout and the first one is lit.  This is very exciting to me as it is a proof of concept moment for me.  I am showing a picture of the same bridge that I used in a previous post so you get a better idea of the process.  This is the CUS Interlocking bridge #1 which will protect west bound traffic moving through a crossover and the entrance to Chicago Union Station as well as the yard lead to my Proviso yard.  I have added the railings and the caps on top of the poles, but not the maintenance platforms.

The lights are all showing clear (green), but this is because the detector wires haven't been connected yet.  Nor have the wiring from the switches been connected.

First lit signal bridge CUS Interlocking bridge #1

I still have scenery touchups and a little weathering on the signal bridge bases, but this is getting close to the finished product.  I really appreciate all the work that David, Alan, Jim, and Doug have done to get us to this point.

Art

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Images (1)
  • First lit signal bridge CUS Interlocking bridge #1

We have a some what unusual situation that I would like to know your opinion on.  In the previous post, the right hand mainline has three heads on the signal bridge.   The top signal head is for the straight route, the next lowest head is for the first switch (crossover), and the lowest head is for the next switch after the crossover.  In this case the last switch determines if you are going straight or diverting, but the diverting is the actual continuation of the mainline.  The straight track doubles as the yard lead into my Proviso freight yard and a long (30 foot) passing siding.

Our debate is whether the signal should be green for the straight yard lead or the diverting mainline?  Normally green is for the mainline, but will it too confusing in this case?  What do you think?

Art

Thanks for your replies.

I'm not sure how clear my question was in hindsight.  The basic issue is that my understanding of real railroad signals is that when you approach a switch on the mainline, the signal will indicate if the switch is thrown for the straight route or the diverting one.  Normally the mainline is the straight route and the diverting is a siding.  But in this case, they are reversed.  The switch is an Atlas #7, so it's not a sharp curve, but it is a diverting route on the mainline and a straight route on the passing siding.  We had made a decision to reverse the signal colors also, but I'm now thinking that will confuse guest engineers?

Is there any precedence for this on real railroads?

Art

Art, do you have a primary railroad that you model?  If so, find out what they did.  I can tell you that on the Pennsy, signals indicated speed, not route.  There were some signals that never displayed a "pure" green.  In the example you gave, the diverting route through the 2nd switch (the mainline) would rate a "Medium Clear" signal display.  The track is clear ahead, but the diverting route through the switch demands a reduction to medium speed.  The straight route (into the yard lead) would rate either an "Approach" if the next signal is red, or a "Restricted" if the yard lead could possibly be occupied.  Restricted means proceed at restricted speed (usually 10-15 mph) and looking out for equipment on the track ahead.

An oversimplified generality is that railroads east of the Mississippi River used speed signals, while those west of the river used route signals.

Understanding signals and their use is a whole 'nother area of the hobby to learn!

Art,

My understanding has always been that "real" railroads were loathe to run a mainline through the diverting (curved) part of a turnout (the switch).  Looking at your scenario, the railroad would have laid a curve just after the crossover switch and then built a left-hand turnout heading into the Proviso yard lead / 30ft siding.  If done that way, your optional green signals, from top to bottom, would have represented:

Top: Continue running on the mainline;

Middle: Take the crossover; or,

Bottom: Take the yard lead / passing siding.

I am guessing that when you set the switches for whichever route is to be used, only the chosen route will be "green" and the others will be "red" before switching back through "yellow" to "green."  I would also guess that you could reach the same result running from top to bottom by simply "inverting" how the second switch affects your signal stack.  E.g., if the first switch is set for through and the second switch is set for diverting, from top to bottom, the signals would be green, red and red.  If the first switch is set for diverting, signals would be red, green and green or red (with last not being dependent on which way the switch is set).    Finally, if the train is to enter the yard / passing siding, then the signals would be red, red and green.  I hope this is clearer than mud.

Chuck

Last edited by PRR1950
@Bob posted:

Art, do you have a primary railroad that you model?  If so, find out what they did.  I can tell you that on the Pennsy, signals indicated speed, not route.  There were some signals that never displayed a "pure" green.  In the example you gave, the diverting route through the 2nd switch (the mainline) would rate a "Medium Clear" signal display.  The track is clear ahead, but the diverting route through the switch demands a reduction to medium speed.  The straight route (into the yard lead) would rate either an "Approach" if the next signal is red, or a "Restricted" if the yard lead could possibly be occupied.  Restricted means proceed at restricted speed (usually 10-15 mph) and looking out for equipment on the track ahead.

An oversimplified generality is that railroads east of the Mississippi River used speed signals, while those west of the river used route signals.

Understanding signals and their use is a whole 'nother area of the hobby to learn!

Bob - Thanks for responding, I found your post very interesting.  My upper level single-track branch line is the Milwaukee Road and the lower level double-track is the BNSF with Union Pacific having trackage rights on the same territory.  The BNSF and UP absorbed many railroads and also their signal systems.  All of them used searchlights at one time or another.  I think that most of them used route signals instead of speed signals as you mentioned.  I know I want to use the signals for routing and not speed, but there are speed implications on these signals too.  We are using flashing yellow on all the yard entrances to show speed restriction and not occupancy for example.

When we get the system fully implemented and operational, then our education on the rules and meanings of all the signal aspects will kick into high gear.  I can't wait.

Art

@PRR1950 posted:

Art,

My understanding has always been that "real" railroads were loathe to run a mainline through the diverting (curved) part of a turnout (the switch).  Looking at your scenario, the railroad would have laid a curve just after the crossover switch and then built a left-hand turnout heading into the Proviso yard lead / 30ft siding.  If done that way, your optional green signals, from top to bottom, would have represented:

Top: Continue running on the mainline;

Middle: Take the crossover; or,

Bottom: Take the yard lead / passing siding.

I am guessing that when you set the switches for whichever route is to be used, only the chosen route will be "green" and the others will be "red" before switching back through "yellow" to "green."  I would also guess that you could reach the same result running from top to bottom by simply "inverting" how the second switch affects your signal stack.  E.g., if the first switch is set for through and the second switch is set for diverting, from top to bottom, the signals would be green, red and red.  If the first switch is set for diverting, signals would be red, green and green or red (with last not being dependent on which way the switch is set).    Finally, if the train is to enter the yard / passing siding, then the signals would be red, red and green.  I hope this is clearer than mud.

Chuck

Chuck - Thanks for the very informative reply.   Your comment that the real railroads would have used curved track on the mainline and then a left-hand turnout into the yard lead makes a lot of sense.  When we laid this track, signals and control panels weren't on our radar screens.  Since the Atlas #7 turnout was a high-speed turnout (relatively speaking), it seemed like a logical thing to do at the time.  I can't remember, but availability of left 0r right turnouts may have also been a deciding factor since there was a time when they were hard to find when we were building this area.

I'm thinking that I should just use the signals the way that they are normally used so as to not confuse anyone during operating sessions and not worry about which track is designated as the mainline.   One good thing is that it is easy to change this after everything is done if we change our minds.

Thanks for your input.

Art 

Jim and I installed some more signals last night.  While we did a number of signal bridges both 2-track and 3-track bridges, the most unusual was our cantilever signal bridge.  While researching real cantilever bridges , I found that there are a number of different styles.  We decided to use a very simple one that matched the framework of what we have built for the other bridges.  It uses a portion of a Lionel 450 signal bridge and then we build the signal heads, install walkways, wire it, and paint it.  The following pictures are pretty basic, but that is what many of you have been requesting so far.

After determining exactly where it will be placed, we drilled a hole large enough to push the RJ45 plugs through the surface of the layout.

Drilling hole for cantilever 1Drilling hole for cantilever 2Drilling hole for cantilever 3

Then we stuffed the wires through the hole to reach the signal cluster board under the layout

Wires for cantileverWiring for cantilver

We pulled the wires through the hole and attached them to the correct locations on the signal board cluster.  The cluster has Atlas signal boards and Atlas interlocking boards.  These boards contain all the logic to indicate occupancy and turnout positions for the interlocking section that they control.  We have only plugged in the signals so far, but none of the detector wires for occupancy, the turnout wired for switch position, or the wires linking to the other clusters.  So, the signals are merely lighting up, but not operating yet.

Cantilever wire under layout

Cantilever signal board cluster

The next picture shows the cantilever mounted to the layout with small screws.  It is very sturdy now.  The second picture shows it lit up after I plugged in the wires from the signal heads to the signal boards.

Cantilever in placeCantilever lit up

This cantilever will control mainline #1 eastbound at Spencer Junction.  The top signal head will show if the turnout is set for straight and how far ahead the track is clear.  If the top signal is red, that will mean the turnout is set for the diverting route.  If the second signal is green, it will mean you take the diverting route and it is clear for two blocks ahead.  Yellow would mean one block ahead is clear and red would mean stop.

The next signal shows Spencer Junction looking westbound.  The 2-track bridge shows occupancy westbound on mainlines #1 and #2.  The Atlas single aspect mast signal shows if the turnout is set to enter the mainline #1 and if it is clear to do so.  I have replaced the signal tower and the tower operator has returned to work.

Spencer Junction lit up

I hope this gives a good glimpse of part of the installation process for these signals.

Art

Attachments

Images (10)
  • Drilling hole for cantilever 1
  • Drilling hole for cantilever 2
  • Drilling hole for cantilever 3
  • Wires for cantilever
  • Wiring for cantilver
  • Cantilever wire under layout
  • Cantilever signal board cluster
  • Cantilever in place
  • Cantilever lit up
  • Spencer Junction lit up
@AlanRail posted:

Art

what you have shown above is a typical track arrangement that most of us have on our layouts.

namely, 2 main lines; one of which has a turnout; where traffic can run East-West and West- East.

the signals placement E-W and W-E.

That's a good point, Alan.  There is a section where I have 4 crossovers fairly close together for example, but you just treat each turnout separately and join them all together.  If you understand the basic idea of where signals need to be surrounding a turnout, then it's just a matter of replicating it for more complex situations.  The old how do you eat an elephant cliché, "one bite at a time."

Art

We plan to get a lot done today and I will be posting new pictures afterwards.  We want to get the rest of the bridges and mast signals installed on the layout. 

Here are some of the bridges laid out on the layout close to where they will be installed.  This area is what I call the "race track" after the real one between Chicago and Aurora.  It runs along my Eola yard and this area has 4 crossovers which makes it my most complex and interesting area for operations.

Signals to be installed 1Signals to be installed 2Signals to be installed 3Signals to be installed 4Signals to be installed 5Signals to be installed 6Signals to be installed 7

Art

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Images (7)
  • Signals to be installed 1
  • Signals to be installed 2
  • Signals to be installed 3
  • Signals to be installed 4
  • Signals to be installed 5
  • Signals to be installed 6
  • Signals to be installed 7
@RSJB18 posted:

The signal project is coming along nicely Art. Since the Atlas boards use RJ-45 plugs, installing them on the signals ahead of time, saves lots of splicing contortions under the layout later. Reduces the inevitable crossed wires too.

Bob

Thanks, Bob.  We are trying to do as much on the workbench as we can.  It's a lot easier than working under the layout.

Art

We were able to get a lot done yesterday.  All the signals are now installed on the lower level of the layout!  I have a lot of touch up work that needs to be done, but all the signals are installed in the their final locations.

The first three pictures show the area where the "race track" (3 track mainline) runs along side my Eola yard.  This is a complex area with four crossovers to protect.  The mast or staff signal laying at a diagonal just before the highway bridge is not permanently anchored yet.  If you notice that there is a 2-track signal bridge and then the staff signal further down, it's because we did that to make the the right-hand mainline track a longer block to hold longer trains.

Final signals installed East Eola 2Final signals installed East Eola 3Final signals installed East Eola 5

The next two pictures shows the area of East Eola at the beginning of the yard on the East end.

Final signals installed East Eola

Final signals installed East Eola 4

The next picture shows the bridge at West Eola just past the highway bridge.

Final signals installed West Eola

The last two pictures shows the 3-track bridge that we mounted to the side of the Mannheim Road highway bridge.  The conduit that routes the wires below the layout has yet to be painted.

Final signals installed West Eola 2

West Eola bridge mounted on highway bridge

Art

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  • Final signals installed East Eola 2
  • Final signals installed East Eola 3
  • Final signals installed East Eola 5
  • Final signals installed East Eola
  • Final signals installed East Eola 4
  • Final signals installed West Eola
  • Final signals installed West Eola 2
  • West Eola bridge mounted on highway bridge
Last edited by Chugman
@Rich883 posted:

Art, great work! Thanks for sharing.

Rich, I appreciate that.  I was waiting this morning for my wife to get out of the hospital and I took that time to read through your thread.  I remember I was following it before I took my hiatus and was and am very impressed with your layout and your scenery.  That harbor scene is awesome!  Your recent posts on your used car lot are great.  I have been planning on doing something similar as a part of my H & N Chevy auto dealership as an OK Used car lot with the Miller Sign.  Great work and I will following your future posts.

Art

Wonderful thread!!  To be a little tongue in cheek:  A piece of "Art" work!!

Thanks, Alan!  The project is going well and it's been a lot of fun to share with so many great and supportive OGR forum members.  They have great ideas and are willing to share them openly with the rest of us.  It's a fun community to be a part of, thanks for making that possible.

Art

Art,

This project has been very enjoyable to watch. I'm very impressed with the team you had to help you work through this. Would it be safe to say you're on the home stretch? It's hard to believe I started my signaling project 2 years ago but my "team" is not available as often so it's not completed yet. I guess we'll get there.

Dave

Dave, I couldn't do this without the team supporting me.  Many of them are still working and have busy lives, but they have been finding the time to keep things moving ahead.

I've seen signals on your layout and they look great and so does your layout.  What do you have left to do on your signals?

Art

During our work session last Saturday, Alan (AlanRail) brought over the components that he had printed of his bracket tower signal.  We had been drooling over the pictures that he has posted online, but in person it is drop dead gorgeous in our opinion.  It is printed in five pieces and they all fit together like a glove. 

Here is a picture of us sitting at the table by the layout examining the pieces for the first time.  You can see that the base is one piece, the mast is another, the platform another, the support arms, and the ladder.

Bracket tower components discussion with Alan and Jim

After discussing whether they are the right height above the track and the design of the platform where the wires are routed down to and below the layout, we then talked about painting and the assembly order.   Jim took all the pieces home to assemble one prototype for us to approve.

Jim came over tonight with a nearly complete model for me to look at and so we could take a few pictures to share.  The first pictures show it temporarily assembled at the work bench.

Bracket signal front at benchBracket signal front closeup at bench

Those were pictures of the front side.  The next two pictures are from the back side.  The detailing is very well done in my opinion.

Bracket signal back at benchBracket signal back closeup at bench

The next picture shows the heads lit up by holding the wires to a battery cell just for looks.

Bracket signal lit up at bench

Next we took it out to the layout and staged it at a location that we plan to use one at.  We placed an Atlas California Zephyr observation car under it for a check on clearances and what the overall look of it was in a layout setting.  The next two pictures show that and we think it looked pretty good.

Bracket signal staged at REA building

Bracket signal staged at La Grange

After these tests, Jim took it back home to glue all the parts together, finish painting it, put longer wires on it so it will reach under the layout to the signal boards, and bring it back for final examination.

I think Alan did a super job designing and printing all the components.  I have no doubt Jim will put it all together and make it look great and as though it is an easy task.  And another challenge appears to be solved.

Art

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Images (8)
  • Bracket tower components discussion with Alan and Jim
  • Bracket signal front at bench
  • Bracket signal front closeup at bench
  • Bracket signal back at bench
  • Bracket signal back closeup at bench
  • Bracket signal lit up at bench
  • Bracket signal staged at REA building
  • Bracket signal staged at La Grange

Thanks Mark and Peter.  This was one style of signal that once I became aware of their existence, we had to have one on my layout somewhere.   As things evolved, we eventually found three places that they would make sense.   I'm not sure why real railroads used these, but on my layout it is due to a lack of real estate to place regular signals on.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

When Jim and I placed a bracket signal on the layout to see if the height looked right, we were concerned that it might be too tall.  We finally decided it was OK, but I was still thinking about it.  I did a few searches on Google to see what I could find. 

What I got out of it I thought was interesting.  It sounds like the main reason bracket signals are so high was to to enable engineers to see them over tall train cars like double-stack cars.  Further I found that bracket signals were less expensive to build and maintain than signal bridges.  When there were still steam engines, railroads had to locate signals on the right side of the track so engineers could see them.  Now with modern diesels, that is not so important, but most signals are still on the right side.  When the Pennsylvania Railroad began eliminating 4-track mainlines, they no longer had to use so many signals bridges and bracket signals replaced some of them.

If I have gotten any of this mixed up, please let me know.  I do know that I love the look and uniqueness of bracket signals and am excited to have some going on my layout.

Art

The last thing that we did last Saturday was to complete some of the wiring so we could test it.  The location we chose was my East Proviso freight yard entrance.  We attached the wires from the Tortoise switch machines to the Atlas Interlocking boards.   The we connected the occupancy detector wires to the Atlas signal boards.  And finally we made up cables to connect the signal boards from the previous block to the boards in the test block.

We had to make up 6 long cables to connect the boards with RJ45 plugs on both ends.   Then we put labels on the cables indicating where they were to be plugged in.  (Plug and Play)

Making block connector cables

Labeling block connector cables

After we ran those cables and plugged them in we were ready to test the signals.  This was a big moment for me!  To be able to see action in the signals when a train passes and when a turnout is thrown.  I wasn't disappointed, they worked great.  I just shot a short video to demonstrate the signals working.

A disclaimer:   I haven't made a video since my PC hard drive recently crashed and I had to download software that I haven't used before.  You can tell that I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but it was more important to me to show you how the signals look and work that achieving perfection in the video.  The lowest signal on the 3-head center signal pole on the signal bridge shows green to enter my Proviso yard, but we intend to change that to flashing yellow.  That is what we plan to use on all my yard entrances to show it's clear to enter at restricted yard speed and be prepared to stop for any yard traffic.   

Hope you enjoy the video.

Art

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Images (2)
  • Making block connector cables
  • Labeling block connector cables
Last edited by Chugman
@Chugman posted:

The last thing that we did last Saturday was to complete some of the wiring so we could test it.  The location we chose was my East Proviso freight yard entrance.  We attached the wires from the Tortoise switch machines to the Atlas Interlocking boards.   The we connected the occupancy detector wires to the Atlas signal boards.  And finally we made up cables to connect the signal boards from the previous block to the boards in the test block.

We had to make up 6 long cables to connect the boards with RJ45 plugs on both ends.   Then we put labels on the cables indicating where they were to be plugged in.  (Plug and Play)

After we ran those cables and plugged them in we were ready to test the signals.  This was a big moment for me!  To be able to see action in the signals when a train passes and when a turnout is thrown.  I wasn't disappointed, they worked great.  I just shot a short video to demonstrate the signals working.

A disclaimer:   I haven't made a video since my PC hard drive recently crashed and I had to download software that I haven't used before.  You can tell that I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but it was more important to me to show you how the signals look and work that achieving perfection in the video.  The lowest signal on the 3-head center signal pole on the signal bridge shows green to enter my Proviso yard, but we intend to change that to flashing yellow.  That is what we plan to use on all my yard entrances to show it's clear to enter at restricted yard speed and be prepared to stop for any yard traffic.   

Hope you enjoy the video.

Art

Enjoyed the video !  Your trains run so smoothly !

Rich

Thanks Mark, Rich, and Mike.  I felt the best way to show the working signals was with a short video.  I can't wait to get more blocks up so we can test the approach signals in proper operation.  With only two blocks linked together, it only shows red or green, not yellow.

Art

     

We worked all day on the layout and I feel we got a lot done.   The biggest accomplishments today were that we "tested the concept" and it was sound.  By that, I mean we finished the wiring on a section of the layout and everything worked the way that it was supposed to.

We attached the track detector wires to the Atlas signal boards.  Next we attached wires from the Tortoise switch machines to the Atlas Interlocking boards.  Then we made up and ran connecting cables to daisy chain the signal boards together.  Lastly we added the logic cables between the boards on each signal board cluster.  All of this was completed on about 100 feet of mainline #1 and interconnected about 7 blocks.  The occupancy feature worked beautifully!  We are using a two block approach so if the aspect is green, you are clear for two blocks.  If the aspect is yellow or approach, you are clear for one block.  And if the aspect is red, the block ahead is occupied and you must stop.

The mainline turnouts are all protected by signals to tell you which way the turnout is thrown ahead of you and if it's clear to proceed.  The dispatcher and tower operators will use these to direct the engineers to the routes that they have set up for them.

We had one little problem that we couldn't get the aspects at the yard entrances to show flashing yellow.  Jim was able to trouble shoot it and found the problem and was able to correct it.  On my railroad, we are using using flashing yellow as a "restricted approach" that means clearance to enter the yard at a restricted speed of 10 miles per hour and be prepared to stop.

It's hard to post pictures of the signals operating, so I will make another video soon to show it in action.

Thanks for you interest and support.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

Art,



Your layout and signalling is an inspiration! I really like the shade of green you have on the signals. In real life the green is almost a cyan green ( I think that is the proper name) and yours are pretty close if not dead one. The stock Lionel signals are too green. Would you mind sharing what led's you are using? I am about to embark on signalling my layout and these would save time as I wouldn't have to buy a bunch of different greens and test them out.

Thank you Art!!

@RSJB18 posted:

Very satisfying when everything works as planned Art.

I'm curious about the Atlas system. Is it all plug and play or do you have to program a master controller to tell the other boards what to do?

Bob

I agree Bob.  You don't mind doing all the work if it pays off.

The Atlas system is self contained, you do not need any additional controllers.  It is as plug and play as you can get.  For basic signaling where you would just indicate occupancy for one direction of travel, all you need are Atlas signal boards.  You separate the layout into blocks, cut gaps in an outside rail (3-rail), attach indicator wires from the track to the signal boards, power the boards, and run cables connecting the boards together and watch the magic.

If you are running bi-directional, you have to add a complete system going the other way and link them together.  It's not  more difficult, but it does add to the time required and the expense as you are doubling everything.

To get to the next level, which is indicating which way all your mainline turnouts are thrown requires the addition of the Atlas Interlocking boards to the mix.  In addition to everything already described, you connect wires from your switch machines to the Atlas interlocking boards and then connect the interlocking boards to the signal boards in what I call a signal board cluster.

None of these steps are complicated, but to be successful you must be able to think through everything in advance, layout a diagram with everything clearly marked, label everything, and methodically follow your plan.  It's a little like the old cliché "how do you eat an elephant, one bite at a time."

Another great feature about this is that you don't have to do it all at once.  You can break it into pieces many different ways.  Do one direction first, add the other later.  Add the turnout control later, it just layers on top of what you have already done.  Or another approach could be to totally do one section of the layout at a time.  And you need to decide what do you really want to accomplish?  If you are going to be normally running trains alone you may not need or want the turnout controls?  If you aren't planning to actual run trains by the signals, only use the signals in highly visible areas where they will be seen most often and easily.

Sorry for the long answer, I'll try to answer any questions or get the answer from one of our team members that knows.

Art 

@Guitarmike posted:

Art,



Your layout and signalling is an inspiration! I really like the shade of green you have on the signals. In real life the green is almost a cyan green ( I think that is the proper name) and yours are pretty close if not dead one. The stock Lionel signals are too green. Would you mind sharing what led's you are using? I am about to embark on signalling my layout and these would save time as I wouldn't have to buy a bunch of different greens and test them out.

Thank you Art!!

Mike, thanks for the comments.

Alan and Jim ordered several different LED's when we were looking for them.  We wanted the colors to match the Atlas and Custom Signals as closely as possible.  The yellow was the hardest to match as I never realized there were so many variations of a basic color.  Since we were using searchlights, we had to find tri-color LED's that produced an acceptable color for all three.  After trying several, Alan tried the ones offered by WeHonest a Chinese retailer on the popular Internet website.  They were spot on and reasonably priced.  And I think they took less than two weeks to get here.  He claims to be able to also honor some special requests such as length of wires and whether they are anode common or cathode common.

We had tried LED's that we would have had to solder the wires on ourselves, but quickly decided that wasn't worth the effort.  Those wires are very small and you have to be a glutton for punishment to tackle it yourself to save a few cents. 

Good luck on your project.

Art

Wow, I’m getting behind, do to outdoor work, doctors appointments, but this weekend I’ll watch your video, catch up on your latest progress and try to comprehend your amazing workmanship. This is a fantastic project, worthy of to be a featured article in OGR the magazine. Thank you for the great write ups, the in-depth reasoning on this articulated subject, trackside signals. Happy Railroading Everyone

@RSJB18 Bob, thank you for asking Art about the Atlas system.

@Chugman Art, thank you for describing the Atlas system.  I had no idea they had this available until you started this thread about your signaling project.  I am following another thread where the OP is posting about a totally different system.  Of course like anything, there are many ways to go about it.  As I told him, during all you years working as an electronics technician and engineer, I wanted to keep things very simple at home.  Now that I've been retired for almost 4 years, I find myself drawn to these discussions.     Thank you for keeping us up to date.

Wow!  Just Wow!  This is so impressive!  I am looking forward to more video updates!

Thanks, Scott.  Since I recently lost my hard drive and my old movie maker software, I'm forced to learn a new system.  In fact, I am going to start experimenting with it right now so I can hopefully do an improved job on the next video.  I've already had a relative say the best way to make it better is to make it shorter. 

Art

@Mark Boyce posted:

@RSJB18 Bob, thank you for asking Art about the Atlas system.

@Chugman Art, thank you for describing the Atlas system.  I had no idea they had this available until you started this thread about your signaling project.  I am following another thread where the OP is posting about a totally different system.  Of course like anything, there are many ways to go about it.  As I told him, during all you years working as an electronics technician and engineer, I wanted to keep things very simple at home.  Now that I've been retired for almost 4 years, I find myself drawn to these discussions.     Thank you for keeping us up to date.

Thanks, Mark.  I just want to add that all my comments about the more technical aspects of this system is from a real layman's perspective.  It will be easy for me to get in over my head.  If I do, I hope the "real experts" will jump in and help me out.  Other wise I will just keep pretending that I know what I'm talking about.  LOL

Art

@Chugman posted:

Thanks, Mark.  I just want to add that all my comments about the more technical aspects of this system is from a real layman's perspective.  It will be easy for me to get in over my head.  If I do, I hope the "real experts" will jump in and help me out.  Other wise I will just keep pretending that I know what I'm talking about.  LOL

Art

Art, That is one of the benefits of posting what you are doing right here.  I have posted what I was doing several times where someone pointed out something else I needed to take into consideration.  The more detail I post, the more useful feedback I get that helps me and others as well.

I have been struggling a little with producing videos lately since I lost my old program due to my hard drive crashing.  With that said, I shot another quick video to show the flashing yellow aspect on the signal bridge at the entrance to my East Proviso yard.  This aspect on my railroad will be a "restricting approach" which means you are clear to enter the yard at a restricted speed of 10 miles per hour and be prepared to stop.

I also included a meet of two mainline trains.  In this video, the UP unit coal train is waiting on mainline#1 for a BNSF Q stack train that has priority.  Once the BNSF train has safely passed the turnout, the UP coal train is cleared for the mainline.  I then shot this same meet from the other direction. 

We are getting there, but everyone is so busy that is hard to find days everyone is available. 

Art

@Chugman, Art, and helpers,  Now that I’ve seen the cool video,  your work is amazing, the video better than amazing, your layout is simply awesome. I compliment your taking on this challenge, it’s a realistic accessory (a super signal system) that separates a tin-plate layout from one’s that is scale-oriented, even though it’s three rail. Making your own signals from scratch, utilizing the Atlas O system, having great help for advice, and most importantly you’re sharing this timely workmanship with us here on the best forum in the model railroad hobby, it’s a Wow… Thank you. Happy Railroading Everyone.

@leapinlarry posted:

@Chugman, Art, and helpers,  Now that I’ve seen the cool video,  your work is amazing, the video better than amazing, your layout is simply awesome. I compliment your taking on this challenge, it’s a realistic accessory (a super signal system) that separates a tin-plate layout from one’s that is scale-oriented, even though it’s three rail. Making your own signals from scratch, utilizing the Atlas O system, having great help for advice, and most importantly you’re sharing this timely workmanship with us here on the best forum in the model railroad hobby, it’s a Wow… Thank you. Happy Railroading Everyone.

Larry, thank you so much for your comments.  It's a lot of fun sharing our project with the forum and your support reinforces that.  I agree with your comments about this being the best forum in our hobby.

Art

Just a quick update.  We have a work session scheduled for this afternoon and hope to get a lot done.  Jim has completed the wiring and painting of the three bracket signals that Alan 3D printed for us and we hope to install them on my Milwaukee branch line or my upper level today. 

Another task is to construct more signal board clusters for Wichita, and Chicago Junction.  We want to be able to get them completely wired and installed with connecting cables so we bring up a couple more blocks of mainline #1.  That will leave us with basically just the Eola yard and "race track" to complete and we will mainline #1 complete.

Art

I've been too busy to do any quality updates with pictures, but we weren't able to get as much done as usual last Sunday.  Jim was able to build three new signal board clusters, but we ran out of time to wire them.  He texted me last night that he has them wired and they are ready to install under the layout.

The three bracket signals are completely wired and after I paint the bases concrete color are ready to be installed. 

At our next work session we plan to install these clusters, light up the corresponding signals, and get all the cables made and blocks connected.  That will complete all of mainline #1 except for the Eola yard and "race track" area.

Art

Art, after making my first post on OGR, I happened across your name and was pleasantly surprised to see that you have progressed tremendously on your layout. I always looked forward to see your posts on UTube and was concerned when there weren’t any for quite a while. You need to know that your layout was the spark for me to finally make my own setup! Being stuck at home for almost a year from March of 2020 got me motivated. Mine is much smaller and not as landscaped detailed, but I’m having fun running Santa Fe, UP, Burlington and Rock Island passenger sets. I even put in an elevated Union Station with 4 passenger sidings.
Thanks for you sharing your hobby accomplishments!IMG_0950IMG_0948IMG_0945IMG_0431IMG_0430

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BRicch first thank you for your comments, I really appreciate it.  What you have accomplished really looks good so far.  It looks like you have a real love of passenger trains and stations.  The Santa Fe station is gorgeous, I love the Spanish style architecture.  It seemed to me that I was never going to get to the scenery stage on my layout, which is the part that I enjoy the most.  Please show more pictures of your layout and your progress.

Art

Here are a few pictures of the signals protecting Spencer Junction.  Spencer Junction is named because it is where the interchange track from my upper level Milwaukee Road branchline at Spencer connects with the lower level BNSF trackage.  There are four pictures that show the signals from each direction when the turnout is thrown for the interchange track or for the mainline.

The first two pictures are from the interchange track and are looking West.

Spencer Junction 3Spencer Junction 4

The next two pictures are looking East.

Spencer Junction 1Spencer Junction 2

I noticed I cut off the top signal on the cantilever bridge, but it was green as the track into the tunnel was clear.  I also noticed that I still have to get the railings installed on the bridges and have some finish detailing to do on the scenery.

Art

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  • Spencer Junction 3
  • Spencer Junction 4
  • Spencer Junction 1
  • Spencer Junction 2

The signals look great, Chugman! In fact, your whole layout is looking fantastic. I'm also a huge Santa Fe and BNSF fan, and will be modeling those railroads (and the Union Pacific) on my own new layout that I'm currently working on designing.

BRicch, those Santa Fe Warbonnet diesels are really nice. I love that paint scheme, and I hope to have a few more ATSF Warbonnets on my new layout. I do have an older Lionel Legacy ATSF Warbonnet B40-8W that looks really good (and runs great, too).

Art, thank you for your compliments. From earlier posts, it looks like you and I are probably not too far from each other. I’m in Hoffman Estates. As to you and some others asking for more pictures, rather than hi jacking your thread, I’ll start posting more pictures on the “Weekend pictures “ thread.

thanks again! Bob

The signals look great, Chugman! In fact, your whole layout is looking fantastic. I'm also a huge Santa Fe and BNSF fan, and will be modeling those railroads (and the Union Pacific) on my own new layout that I'm currently working on designing.

BRicch, those Santa Fe Warbonnet diesels are really nice. I love that paint scheme, and I hope to have a few more ATSF Warbonnets on my new layout. I do have an older Lionel Legacy ATSF Warbonnet B40-8W that looks really good (and runs great, too).

Thanks, Dylan.  It's hard not to like those two railroads.  The Milwaukee Road was the first railroad that I saw as a boy in my home town, so I had to have that as a branchline.  It was a single track branch line in Northwest Iowa and so is mine.  I fell in love with the Union Pacific while living in Omaha in the 1970's.  I now live on the BNSF mainline and I have always been a huge fan of the Santa Fe.  So I call my lower level the BNSF with trackage rights to the BNSF to justify running both on my layout.

Art

@BRicch posted:

Art, thank you for your compliments. From earlier posts, it looks like you and I are probably not too far from each other. I’m in Hoffman Estates. As to you and some others asking for more pictures, rather than hi jacking your thread, I’ll start posting more pictures on the “Weekend pictures “ thread.

thanks again! Bob

Bob me and my son, Jim, really like what you are doing.  I think you should start a separate thread documenting your layout progress.  I would love to follow it and it sounds like many others would too.  Thanks for all your nice comments.

Art

Last edited by Chugman

I hope everyone had a great Labor Day weekend.  Jim, Doug, and I were able to work most of Monday on the signal project and got quite a bit done.

The first accomplishment I'm going to show is the installation of the bracket signals.  I have three of them on the layout.  They were all placed in areas where the real estate was difficult to find room for them.  I also wanted them somewhere that they would stand out as I think they are so cool and not readily available in O gauge. 

The first installation is at LaGrange Junction where my interchange track leaves LaGrange and goes down a 2 1/2 percent grade to Chicago Junction.  Here are two pictures, one from each direction, that shows it in place.  There are two workmen on the top trying to figure out why the heads aren't lit?  It's because there aren't any signal board clusters built yet to light them.

Bracket signal LaGrange 1

Bracket signal LaGrange 2

The other two bracket signals are mounted on each end of my Bristol passing siding.  There is no where to mount signals except between the tracks without adding platforms on the outside of the tracks.   On the first picture of East Bristol you can see where I have built out a platform to hold the double-head mast signal that protects the turnout.  I can't finish it yet, because my band saw decided that this would be a good time to a break.

Bracket signal East Bristol 1

Bracket signal East Bristol 2

This picture is at West Bristol just past the Mannheim Road highway crossing.

Bracket signal West Bristol

We were able to also install four more signal board clusters that lit up a number of additional signal bridges.  And we hooked up turnouts and occupancy wiring for the blocks at Chicago Union Station interlocking.  And Jim figured out why we were having so much difficulty getting flashing yellow (restricted approach) at all yard entrances and fixed it.

Art

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  • Bracket signal LaGrange 1
  • Bracket signal LaGrange 2
  • Bracket signal East Bristol 1
  • Bracket signal East Bristol 2
  • Bracket signal West Bristol
@RSJB18 posted:

And the beat goes on Art. The bracket signals look great. I just caught up on @AlanRail 's thread on his design and printing work too. You have a great team supporting the effort.

Bob

Thanks a lot, Bob.  I can't wait to get these signals lit up and then working with the  proper logic.  We ran out of Atlas signal and interlocking boards and are waiting for another shipment.  Jim things we can maybe find one more so we can install one interlocking on the upper level that will contain one of the bracket signals.

You are right about the team, I'm very blessed.

Art

While we have been very busy working on the signals, Alan and I talked about adding details to my grain elevator and flour mill.  I described to him what I was looking for and he asked me to send him some pictures.  I had taken a number of pictures of the grain elevators in my wife's home town of Ruthven, IA.  I was particularly looking for help on the rather detailed and intricate grain unloading chutes.  Here is a picture of some of the chutes.

closeup of grain chutes 3

shed and elevator looking east

So Alan went to work and designed a 3D design.

grain showing chute at angle

He called me a day later and wanted to know what the outside diameter of the silos was.  I told him and last Saturday we were at a friend's operating session and he said had something for me.  He had a box of chutes, some printed with a chute hinged outward and others with the chute hinged inward.  We both think the inward chute probably looks the best, but he had a couple of the outward ones painted and assembled.  So I posed those on my grain elevator and my flour mill.  Here are those pictures.

Grain chutes elevator 1

Grain chutes flour mill

I don't know about you, but I'm blown away by Alan's work.  I'm  grateful to have him as a friend and helping me detail my layout.  Oh did I mention that the chutes are hinged and they work?

Art

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  • closeup of grain chutes 3
  • shed and elevator looking east
  • grain showing chute at angle
  • Grain chutes elevator 1
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Last edited by Chugman

As soon as time permits, I want to start documenting the process of making and installing Atlas signal boards clusters.  It's a very important part of this project, but since it's under the layout and out of sight, it is easy to not pay as much attention to it.

Thanks to all for your interest, support, and questions.

Art   

Alan the signal looks great!  This will fill one of the remaining voids in our signals for the upper level.  That with the single head mast signal you have made will enable us to get all the signals installed.  As soon as the remaining Atlas signal boards arrive, we can begin the final installations on the lower level and move to the upper level.

Art

You mentioned grain elevators, a favorite prairie railroad "industry" since my first teen passage through area, and Kansas and lowa. There is a book on Indiana elevators, but l have not blundered on those for other, prairie breadbasket states like Ill., Iowa, Kansas, and Nebraska, ND, SD, others.  In the '50's, two lane roads took me past working wooden elevators;  a recent Interstate race to Narrow Gauge Convention (l like stamp mills, too) had time only for distant concrete ones. Know of any such photo books dedicated to individual states?

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