UPDATE - My layout is OPERATIONAL but......no Power to Tracks?

Do you have more than 1 remote and, if so, does the problem happen with both or only when using one remote in particular?

Do issues occur using both engines or only one of them?

Do issues occur when an engine is on a track connected to only one of the TIUs or are you getting error on tracks connected to both TIUs?

Barry Broskowitz posted:

Do you have more than 1 remote and, if so, does the problem happen with both or only when using one remote in particular?

Do issues occur using both engines or only one of them?

Do issues occur when an engine is on a track connected to only one of the TIUs or are you getting error on tracks connected to both TIUs?

Hello Barry!

I have only one Remote....I bought the 2nd TIU standalone. BTW, Revs of the TIUs are Rev I and the other one has NO Rev label on it at all.

The Y6b gets the message for every push of thr Remote button. The ES44AC gets the message 10-20% of the time...usually when it's at the same location on the layout.

I get the error with both TIUs connected.

Also, the layout is 12 feet x 18 feet.

I use "banana" jackets for connections to the TIUs and all the screw connections are made via crimped spade connectors (not bare wires).

Question Barry.....the Y6b has been in storage for quite a while (a couple years). Would a weak battery be part of the culprit? The ES44AC has been in storage as well, but not as long as the Y6b......

I'm also using two 18V 1A wall-worts; one for each of the TIUs.

..the Y6b has been in storage for quite a while (a couple years). Would a weak battery be part of the culprit?

Highly unlikely.

The first step is to connect one of the TIU's Remote Input port to the port at the base of the remote using s 4-conductor telephone handset cable (the curly kind). That will create a connection only between the remote and the one TIU to which it's connected. The other TIU will be inoperative.

Then, operate one engine at a time only on tracks connected to tha one TIU. Include doing a DCS signal strength test. See if things improve.

We can proceed from there.

Okay....will do. Thanks for helping on this....I really appreciate it!

Hi Barry. Okay.....I got both engines working on two seperate sections of track on separate loops using Variable channels 1 and 2 from a single TIU...even without the remote being tethered! During this time I encountered NO "RF OUT OF RANGE" message. WooHoo :-)

Then a thunderstorm rolls in and.....BAM....the house takes a power hit; but it's more of brown out! The house lights drop to about half brightness for about 5 - 8 seconds, drops out completely then comes back on! Crap!! :-(

And now everything gets screwed up! Long story short I had to do a factory reset of the TIU,  the remote and the engine that was running. They were all scrambled.

I just got everything back to where I was 4 hours ago and was able to do several Signal Strength runs wirelessly. I definitely have a block of track on each loop that have a Signal Strength between 1 and 4 with a "RF OUT OF RANGE" now and again.....but not nearly like before! And even with the engines parked directly on the power feed of the troublesome blocks the Signal Strength varies between 2 and 4 and "RF OUT OF RANGE". So....this one Variable channel and associated blocks of track have some issues! The other blocks of track get consistent 10s. I can see the Signal Strength change as the engines transition from one track block to another. But....phew....what a day!

I'm guessing the Variable channel feeding these trouble track blocks is not the issue; but the track itself??

Now to repeat this test with the other TIU....

Living in Florida, the lightning capital of the world, I long ago learned to protect all sensitive equipment by using UPS's (Uninterruptible Power Supplies). I purchase APC (American Power Conversion) branded products.

It's the very best surge and brownout protection that you can buy off the shelf.

Hi Barry....yep copy that re. surge protection! I will definitely have to look into that!!

FYI I just finished testing the 2nd TIU (separate from the other one I tested yesterday) set as TIU1 using the same four track blocks (two per loop) that are on separate loops. I tested both tethered and untethered. 

Tethered signal strength was between 9 and 10....mostly 10s. Unthethered, this 2nd TIU provided better signal strengths; being mostly 10's except for one spot which was between a 5 and 7 for a very short time.

Not sure where I go from here......should I continue testing with the other two (as yet untested) track blocks?

Whats your thoughts on my repositioning the TIUs and power distribution blocks per my diagram shown in the original post?

None of the track connections would change.....just a relocation of the TIUs and power distributions in order to (hopefully) improve signal strength my shortening wire runs from the power distribution blocks to the track itself.

One last thing.....just ordered DCS Companion 3rd Addition. Being an Amazon Prime member and it being Amazon Days, I was able to get $5 off! Woohoo!!

Junior,

I just finished testing the 2nd TIU (separate from the other one I tested yesterday) set as TIU1Are both TIUs numbered #1?

If so, that's your problem.

No.....when I first reported the problem and was runnning the TIUs in Super TIU mode, one TIU was number TIU1, the other was TIU2.

Recall yesterday that I had to do factory resets to everything due to the brown out. Once that was done, I tested each TIU separately and powered them up one at a time; both as TIU1. In other words, I test one TIU with the other completely unplugged. Then I would unplug the TIU just tested and plug in the other TIU and test it.

I'm thinking the next step is to power them both up, change one of the TIUs to number 2, put them both in Super TIU mode and test engine communications again......

I'm thinking the next step is to power them both up, change one of the TIUs to number 2, put them both in Super TIU mode and test engine communications again......

If you do that, both will end up as tiu #2.... Only power up one. and then put them in super... Verify with the "read" tiu #1 found   , TIu #2 found

A side note on the TIU location; our two are located under a dense 6-track freight yard and only encounter reception problems from the remote in one location which has a lot of other track etc between it and the TIUs.   How fresh are the batteries in your remote?

Hi Everyone....

Sorry for the delay in responding....been busy getting everything set up again for the test. In addition and because I've been reading about the issues many DCS operators have had with communication boards coming loose, I decided to crack open both TIUs and the remote and add foam to hold the boards in place. I thought removing that potential variable would help in diagnosing possible "OUT OF RF RANGE" issues.

As a side note, I saw that my Rev. I TIU has 20A automobile fuses in it. But my non-Rev. TIU has NO fuses at all! This TIU must version ZERO! Good thing I added aftermarket circuit breakers between the PW ZWs and the TIUs!!

Anyway, the following was done to get things going:
1. Rev. I TIU was kept as TIU1. The non-Rev TIU was added as TIU2. 
2. Tracks were added to the Variable channels on both TIUs. I used T1V1/T1V2 and T2V1/T2V2 because I'm lazy. :-)
3. "Read" button was pressed to make sure both TIUs were found....and they were found.
4. Voltage on all TIU Tracks was varied to get power to the rails (18V as confirmed with a voltmeter).
5. The TIUs were put in Super TIU mode.
6. Engine ES44AC was put on Loop 1 and added to the TIUs (in Super TIU mode).
7. Engine successfully made a few loops on the track. 
8. Removed ES44AC from the track and put the Y6b on Loop 2.
9. Added the Y6b to the TIUs (in Super TIU mode).
10. Started running the Y6b when it hung up on a Lionel UTC track section and shorted out to a point where it popped a circuit breaker! Again.....good thing I installed circuit breakers between the ZWs and the TIU!! I'm guessing the Y6b frame runs pretty close to the rails (I did confirm it was not a derailure)! Sigh.....it's always something.....
11. I shut everything off and decided to take a break and give you all an update.

My next test will be to run a different MTH engine that I know will clear the UTC track sections. Then I will run the engines to check the signal strength on each of them to see how the TIUs are performing. I have documentation that shows which track blocks are connected to which TIUs. This should be interesting. Also a reminder....I have not received my supplies yet to install the "magic lights". I believe that stuff arrives Friday.  Boy I miss Radio Shack!!

Also wanted to say Thank You All for helping me with this. Your ideas and suggestions are greatly appreciated!! 

I think you'll find the "magic bulbs" will improve the dcs signal a lot...  Good luck.

Well.....monsoon season is now upon us....another thunderstorm is rolling in as we speak! Unplugging everything until the storm passes. Don't want to go through a system wide reset again. I will update you all later.....

Hi All;

I would like to confirm something with you all before I go any further. As I mentioned earlier, I am using 4 PW ZWs that feed my two TIUs.

One side (handle) of each ZW is connected to a Variable channel on each of  the TIUs (I did this so that I could spread the electrical load of the trains across 4 ZWs). The way I have the ZWs connected should not cause me any grief right?

I'm asking because I'm seeing some strange things happening. This is the very first time I've tried running two engines on separate loops (up until now all testing was done on one loop with one engine). The loops have crossover switches with insulated pins in the center rail (so each loop "should" be separate from each other).

After adding both engines to the remote I started up one engine and started it moving on it's loop, but.... so did the other one! So.....I'm thinking I have a short some where.....where the power from one TIU/loop is "leaking" into the other TIU/loop? This I believe has been the source of all my remote Comm. issues all along.

Aside from the power "leak" problem, my ZW connections to the TIUs should not be a problem....correct?

You are correct in your observations.  If you have two TIU channel outputs tied together, you can expect all sorts of issues with DCS.  Find the cross connection and you'll likely solve your problem.

Gregg posted:

I think you'll find the "magic bulbs" will improve the dcs signal a lot...  Good luck.

Works on the older TIUs ... does nothing for the newest revision to improve signal strength, is my understanding.

Kerrigan,

Hi All;

Made a lot of progress today.....
1. Tested each Track Block (4 per loop) with a volt meter by:
     A. Set all the TIU Variable Channels to 22V,
     B. Powered down each Track Block at the ZW connected to the Track Block,
     C. Powered up each Track Block one at a time at the ZW connected to that Track Block,
     D. When one Track Block was powered up, power was confirmed with the voltmeter,
     E. Track Blocks on either side of the powered Track Block were checked for power. No power
         was shown on Track Blocks on either side of the active/powered Track Block.
     F. This process was repeated all around the layout. For example; the loops consist of Track Blocks A,
         B, C and D. Track Blocks B and D were checked for power when A was powered up, C and A were 
         where checked when B was powered up, etc.
     G. Bottom line, no "voltage leaks" were found in any Track Blocks adjacent to the powered Track
          Block. I did notice that when a lighted passeger car (that has two pickup rollers) was used to
          check if a Track Block was active, there was "voltage leak" to a unpowered Track Block, but only
          when the car straddled an insulation point; where one pickup roller was on a powered Track Block
          and the other pickup roller was on an unpowered Track Block. 

          I know this because I was also checking the voltmeters on my Control Panel. I would see voltage
          appear on a ZW for an adjacent Track Block that was powered off (see pics below):

          This pic shows a lighted passenger car on the powered Track Block which is to the Left of the Blue
          tape marker where the insulated pin is. The 2nd voltmeter shows 15 volts. The passenger car to
          the Right of the Blue tape is not lit because that Track Block (the top voltmeter) has zero power
          to it......

        This next pic has the passenger car straddling the insulated pin. As you can see the car now lights
        up, and the cars to the Right of the insulated pin are also lighted! Notice the top voltmeter; it now
        shows there is power going to the Track Block to the Right of the insulated pin; which had no power
        going to it earlier and shouldn't!

2. Received and installed the "magic lights". Yes.....they made quite a difference! I still get "OUT OF RF RANGE", but very briefly. Track Signal is mostly 9 - 10. I need to research those few areas of the track that get "OUT OF RF RANGE". It appears one area is over a group of switches. Another area is through
the Lionel Lift Bridges.

3. I added two engines; one on each loop. I am now able to control each one separately without interference or confusion!

Thank you, Thank You, THANK YOU ALL who took the time to help me out and get my layout more stable than its ever been!!