Updating Older MTH Steam

Hi Pete,

Some very nice work you have done. It does make quite a difference.  

Alex

How about some more full photos of these beauties Pete? They really look nice...

The old MTH Premier seems to allow a lot of room for excellent upgrades without spending too much money. Those are some really sharp upgrades you did Pete.

I think I'll consider some of these ideas when I come across a Proto 1 Empire State Express.

Thanks guys. Sam, I will try and get some more pics soon. Thomas, I still have a few more details I want to add. The newer engines have a lubricator linkage that is missing from this engine. Precision Scale shows them but I am holding off until I find more items  that I will need. Also when I had the shell off I noticed MTH had taken some shortcuts on the piping where pipes don't connect. They used the streamlining to cover that up. I plan to make corrections.

The tether I used from MTH has connectors at both ends (part number????). One is straight and the other angled. I like these instead of getting the one with only one straight connector as that one is meant for diesels and uses a different color code. The double ended tether uses the same colors as the steam tether making splicing easy as well as troubleshooting later.

Pete

The best thing about the early MTH Premier engines in my opinion is the huge Pittman motor.

Thanks to this thread, I think I will upgrade my PS1 T1 to PS3.  I rather spend a grand on a PART M1b a model that I am not sure if I have ( I have Weaver m1?)

From the perspective of a Lionel guy, another reason to like the "old" PS1 steam engines from MTH is that you can have Gun Runner John's TMCC and a Super Chuffer installed....or do it yourself.

Lionel has never made a C&O 614....and I have one with GRJ now.  The other MTH steamer that I'm after (for conversion) is the Great Northern S-2......which Lionel has not yet offered either.

Lastly, I really like the deck plate/apron that MTH offers on their steamers now. It's a nice touch, IMHO.

I started making aprons after picking up the Lionel Niagara. That dieast apron is usually found broken due to the material and the fact it cannot move above horizontal. Irregular track or sudden grades will raise the tender forcing the deck to support the weight of the engine. The deck loses that effort.

Here is the one I made for the MTH Niagara. I got the idea for using big door hinges after seeing a few steamers at the PRR Museum in Strasburg.

I am moving to using this style which uses eyelets, music wire, and hypodermic tubing. I am able to solder the tubing to the brass using zinc chloride flux. This was made for a 3rd Rail Hudson that had lost its deck. The one for the MTH ESE was made in a similar fashion.

Pete

Pete nice work.   I recommend you cut the trace from the double purple wire to the unused pad dangerously close to the mounting screw of the PCB.  Do not want that contacting chassis ground.  Or use a nylon washer under screw head.  G

G, thank you. I saw that and undercut the screw head. The nylon washer is even a better idea. Thanks.

Pete

Oh, yeah - I also love those old (often NIB), beautiful PS1 steamers in general, and they just cry out for an ERR kit.

That "swiveling circuit board" is something that I had not envisioned - good idea. It may find its way into one of mine one day (I have an MTH Niagara that doesn't run right...Cruise Commander and RS may show up there).

Anyway, great work; good ideas. And they're NYC locos. Win-win-win.

Speaking of beautiful, NIB MTH Steamers, this is what I won on Da Bay a few weeks....and have since sent it to GRJ for TMCC and Super Smoker:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MTH-20..._cvip=true&rt=nc

$410 with the PS2 upgrade, not that I needed it.

On the down side, there are still a shockingly high number of people still trying to get $600-$800 for their PS1 engines....which, typically "ain't gonna happen".

Lots of great deals on older MTH PS1 and PS2. Like Marty noted most all came with big Pittmans and a sturdy drive train so they make a good platform for upgrades. I put MTH in the title for the tether mod but I plan to eventually add the apron and curtains to all my steam engines MTH or otherwise. To tell the truth if I had been able to find easily the MTH part numbers for the curtains I may have just ordered a bunch but I have little luck ordering from them. Now I can crank out a set in about ten minutes for about 40 cents in materials.

Pete

One concern about the swiveling circuit board is that the board material is fairly brittle and circuit boards aren't really meant to be moving parts. The movement at the screws combined with the pressure of the wiring in the middle could crack the board at some point. Fixable, of course. Just a thought.

Jim, its fiberglass/epoxy board not paper/epoxy. Its very difficult to break. I moved the tender relative to the engine to about an 027 curve and most of the tether movement is at the tender due to wider tunnel. This engine will get run on the club layout with 096 minimum anyway. YMMV as they say.

Pete

Pete, I love the swiveling connector, that's a very nice touch and doubtless really helps with the straight tether.  I'm going to have to try that.

Pete,

I should also ask, where did you get the replacement tether that didn't have the 'bend' in it that lets it go straight from engine to tender? It honestly looks less noticable and uncanny than the standard tether the locomotive came with.

Thomas, I pick them up at York from MTH which is why I don't have the part number. No doubt some of the MTH techs know the number.  Its sold with a connector at both ends, one straight and the other a right angle. I cut off the right angle one. MTH also sells a tether with just one straight connector and bare wires at the other end but its meant for diesels and for reasons only known to MTH uses a different color code than the steam tether????

By using the double ended one I can easily spliced the new tether to wires in the tender, no ringing out of the wires to the connector and keeping track on paper required. Its a few bucks more but worth it both to me and next guy.

PS, I found an old email from Midge. I am pretty sure the part number for the double ended tether is BC-0000217

Pete

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Pete, I love the swiveling connector, that's a very nice touch and doubtless really helps with the straight tether.  I'm going to have to try that.

I originally was planning to use a part K-Line uses on their diesels. Its simply a rectangular housing the engine connector fits into and has a pair of nubs top and bottom the fit into slots in the engine. If you worked on K-Line diesels you may have noticed them. It turned out they fit the MTH 10 pin (sans PC board) connector perfectly even though the K-Line connector is only 6 pins. I used them when I added cruise to my E8s. If you go to Brasseurs site and search on K2800-X014AH in K-Line Parts a poor picture will come up. If I get a chance I will post a better pic.

It turned out it would have taken a lot more work to use that part so I settled on just enlarging the PC board holes. In retrospect the swiveling connector might just be icing on the cake. Widening the tender tunnel may be all thats needed.

Pete

Diesel Harnesses.

10 pin flat, PS2 BC-2100033 B unit to Lead A unit, ref. F-3 20-2307-1
10 pin flat, PS2  BC-2100035 Trailing A to B unit, ref. F-3 20-2307-1
10 pin flat, PS2, universal BC-2000000 B-unit to Lead A unit
10 pin flat, PS2 (B unit pass thru) BC-2100070 B-unit pass thru harness

Tender Harnesses.

PS2 & LocoSound, 10 pin BC-1000002 Universal type
PS2 Steam, 10 pin to 10 pin, universal 10" BC-0000217 angle 10 pin to straight 10 pin

I have used the ERR TMCC / RS to upgrade many of my PS1 steam and diesel locomotives.  Also, some K Line steam that is scale, very detailed and runs great with the upgrades added. Also used the ERR CCM to correct/upgrade my K Line St Fe Berkshire when it failed.  I have more MTH to upgrade, but waiting until I can do so and not relinquish the engine unique sounds they have, particularly the various turbines.

Jesse    TCA  12-68275

I'm on hold with an upgrade of a PS1 equipped Premier NKP 765.  It's designated ERR CC electronics were confiscated for another upgrade ( Weaver Brass Hiawatha F7 ).  Well worth the upgrade, considering the cost of new steam these days.

Bruce

For those needing to upgrade/chance the engine mounted ten pin board connector, the MTH part number is AG-0000039.  I have found these very useful for upgrade of Williams engines to TMCC and have enough return to the engine for control of the headlight, smoke, etc. with the Cab 1, and the use of ERR products.

While on this subject, my LHS no longer carries WS Deans manufactured multi-pin connectors.  Looking for another source, but with not enough good fortune with this endeavor.  Have looked into a couple recommended sites on line, but they, too, appear to no longer carry them.  Any assist will be most appreciated.  Looking for parts numbered 1006, 1008, 1241, and the "wet noodle" wire numbers 1430, 1431, 1432, all manufactured/distributed by WS Deans.  Yes, I have contacted Deans, and they referred me to the sites I have checked.

Jesse   TCA  12-68275

One more leaving the engine house. From early 2000's it still has its 5v boards. I think it was the first NYC Hudson MTH offered with a PT tender. Besides the tether change, a deck and cab curtains were added. 

Next up an early USRA Mikado.

Pete

Norton, this is a very cool post.  You do great work.  Thanks for posting.

Marty

To whom it may concern... I'm looking to do some similar additions to a few steam locomotives. How exactly are the plates and curtains attached to the locomotive? Soldering,or really REALLY REALLY strong glue?

MTH's diecast curtains are held on with screws. My copies are held on with JB Weld. The aprons are held on using eyelets as hinges. 18 gauge tubing is soldered to the plate and music wire connects the plate to the eyelets.

Here the pieces.

Pete

Thanks Pete,

     I’ll be trying this soon so I’ll keep you posted on my success.

cheers!

I love to view a top shelf post like this one.   A breath of fresh air over the MTH and Lionel bashers.   The poster took time and did a great job.

Pete, Everything you did is great!  I do like the swivel idea on the tether and the shorter tether.  The apron is really the best upgrade as far as looks go in my opinion!!  Thank you for posting!!

What a great thread this is with a ton of good information.   I have an unshrouded J looking for these upgrades.

Does/has anyone updated the speaker in the tender on some of the PS1 locos?

If so, which speakers did you use....and was it worth it?  I'm looking for clarity of sound more than volume, per se.

Outstanding work and presentation on components that have long been needed and desired as an upgrade or addition to our O-gauge locomotives  .  Great thread Norton--thanks!

Anybody know where that dark blue wire gets attached to the board in the above photos ?  I can't find a diagram anywhere.

If you are referring to the dark blue wire on the engine tether connector it goes to the tach reader. If you go to mthtrains.com, search on 50-1911 you will find the steam upgrade kit. Go to support and you can downloard the installation manual with the wiring diagrams.

Pete

I’m just waiting for the postman to bring the MTH K4S tender, rebuilt by Chuck of this forum to eliminate the PS1 system (which appears to have led to this loco changing hands several times in quick succession, at ever-lower prices). 

Whether this is an “upgrade” I’ll leave for members to argue about. Suffice it to say that over here in the “land of DCC”, PS1 is a non-starter and if it runs reliably, I’m good with that. 

Hi Pete Is it possible to obtain replacement apron for Lionel 2064 Niagara from you? I do not have the facilities to make one myself. Pleas let me know cost for you time and materials. Greg