Hard to accept the avg TCA age is 75. If so they need to expand recruitment quickly. OGR is the best place to look for new members.
I hope the TCA doesn’t use Budweiser’s ad agency. 😳
ANY HELP NEEDED PLEASE ASK !!!!!!!!
Well this isn't exactly how I would be spending part of my Tuesday evening. How can a group that is all about trains, hack at the knees of two outlets that aid in increasing their membership? Yes this is foolish on their part. The hobby is small in comparison to quite a few other things, so advertising would be something that should indeed help you would think. Yeah, it does. What are they going to do, buy a billboard(real one, not an O Scale one) advertising TCA memberships to try and get people to join?
We all know costs of doing anything inevitably go up, but you would imagine that they would be able to try and find a way to be able to continue doing what would be the norm and not run into any SNAFU's. I recall at 2018 October York week at the Toy Train Museum an older member complaining about membership cost and saying, "Is this where our dues are going to?" Granted I do really know what the member was talking about as I didn't ask, nor know if he was looking at something.
Perhaps the TCA should see about getting a YouTube Channel. I guess they don't know what they are doing, and don't realize that where their foot has stepped, is in a stinky mess. This is not cool.
Although my first feeling about this is disappointment, here are some random thoughts...
I agree with many of the previous posts that TCA needs to rebrand, possibly under a more inclusive name. I'm watching a similar dynamic unfold at NMRA - I think they've been a little bit more transparent about the process, but not sure that they're being any more effective.
I think that TCA is too stuck in the past and needs new blood. Maybe Stu can run again for president, or perhaps we can groom some of the enthusiastic YouTubers (Jason Stuckert, Chris Raines, Chris Montagna, Eric Siegel, etc.) for leadership - these guys know how to use modern media to reach a younger demographic. Unfortunately, TCA's organizational structure limits how much the president can do. In a similar vein, NMRA's president is about 40 and has been leading a lot of change, but it's too early to draw any conclusions about effectiveness.
While I agree that the hobby is stronger when all of the players maintain a presence and support each other, don't forget that Lionel and MTH scaled back or eliminated their presence at York (I know that York is ED, but it's TCA's flagship event). Even OGR decided that having a booth at York didn't provide sufficient benefit. I think it's ironic that Kalmbach / CTT now has a booth at York. In other words, these organizations have decided that focusing on current enthusiastic hobbyists isn't cost-effective.
I can't find the numbers at the moment, but my recollection of the last circulation audit numbers I saw for CTT and OGR were eye opening. The number of printed copies of CTT has fallen precipitously. What really struck me is that the newsstand sales of both magazines is very small - IIRC barely into 4 digits per issue. Hardly anyone is being casually exposed to the hobby via printed copies.
People don't join organizations like they once did. How many men in our fathers' generation went to weekly or monthly meetings for Lions, Rotary, Toastmasters, Knights of Columbus, or at least a bowling league? How many people do this now?
Many members of TCA express the sentiment that "I'm in TCA just so I can go to York". The transactional nature of this attitude saddens me. Why not join for fellowship or to promote a hobby that we enjoy?
How do you motivate someone to join and participate in an organization? I wish I knew. Sorry about the ramble.
@Lyinel posted:Hard to accept the avg TCA age is 75. If so they need to expand recruitment quickly. OGR is the best place to look for new members.
Yup, I think this is baloney too. Just a couple years ago the average age was reported as early-sixties. If it truly is 75, we might as well pack it in.
That said, there can be little doubt the hobby is in big trouble demographically. It’s substantially nostalgia-based, and those with first-hand experience of these things as toys is declining rapidly.
@pd posted:Yup, I think this is baloney too. Just a couple years ago the average age was reported as early-sixties. If it truly is 75, we might as well pack it in.
Well, I am not packing anything in, I have a long way to go to get to feeling 75. Heck, I just got into the 50's club not too long ago.
As a TCA member I used the link to comment on my disappointment in their decision.
Then I thought about the $60 dues or whatever I’m paying, and the fact that I go to their website twice per year.
But I come here for hours and wealth of info DAILY. FOR FREE! Maybe I need to spend that $60 here instead.
Organizations have an advertising budget and have to make decisions on where to spend it for the best benefit. Given a choice between 1/10th page advertisements in the train magazines and comped tables for members to promote the organization at train shows, the latter is a better use of limited dollars.
The place where TCA can support the magazines is on the editorial side by providing articles. TCA's divisions know who has an interesting collection and know who is doing interesting things. That's the source of articles and buzz. You get more buzz and excitement by positive articles . . ."Double Headed Lionel Berkshires" is more interesting than "Group Pulls Magazine Ads".
@PGentieu
“I believe four organizations in this sector of the hobby (TCA, TTOS, LCCA, and LOTS) is at least two too many competing for the” .. “number of hobbyists and hobbyists' dollars.”
I agree that 4 organizations chasing the same niche is likely too many. I also agree with the NMRA’s decision to provide digital magazine and charge extra for print. I enjoy the LCCA and NMRA conventions. Looking forward to LCCA in Concord this year and Omaha next year! And LOTS convention next year in Lawrence KS, just 50 minutes from my basement!
LOTS, LCCA, NMRA, and OGRR paying member. ASQ and PMI member. PaddleKC member. That’s plenty of hobbies and professional organizations for me.
There is an old saying - "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." The TCA did just that with this move.
Jack
As a paying member of TCA for 28 years, I do find this news very disturbing. Frankly, the only reason why I have maintained my TCA membership is one word: YORK! Their quarterly journal really doesn't interest me because it focuses on a lot of really old stuff that I doubt many young members are even interested in. (Sorry if I have offended anyone.) I never have taken the time to go into their budget to see exactly where my $50 dues goes. (I pay a separate amount for York registration.)
As others above have mentioned, this forum gives TCA and York a lot of free advertising and positive publicity. It is incomprehensible to me that TCA would not return the favor to OGR and CTT in order to maintain the symbiotic relationship among all entities supporting the O-Gauge hobby.
I will send a correspondence to Jay Zschau over this matter. On any future ballots for officers I will try to determine their position as to whether or not they will be in favor of supporting OGR and CTT, and cast my vote accordingly.
I thought the demographics of the country were the baby boomers entering retirement with a corresponding shortage of workers? This may be a bit of a stretch, but this reminds me of the decision by the Bill Knapps restaurant franchise to abandon their dedicated following as a means to cater to the younger crowd. I was a part of the younger crowd when that happened and thought it was an incredibly short sighted decision.
@VADarthDad posted:But I come here for hours and wealth of info DAILY. FOR FREE! Maybe I need to spend that $60 here instead.
I just wrote them and included along the same lines. Why waste $60 on TCA for access to exclusive rolling stock when I could actively support a group dedicated to expanding the hobby.
@Lyinel posted:Hard to accept the avg TCA age is 75. If so they need to expand recruitment quickly. OGR is the best place to look for new members.
It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from since the average age on the forum has been trending downward among those of us still living. We receive hundreds of applications on average per month and those are averaging in the mid 50's.
Alan,
Wouldn't Lionel, Atlas, and MTH help out if you asked them? Or the forum sponsors for that matter.
John
@VADarthDad posted:As a TCA member I used the link to comment on my disappointment in their decision.
Then I thought about the $60 dues or whatever I’m paying, and the fact that I go to their website twice per year.
But I come here for hours and wealth of info DAILY. FOR FREE! Maybe I need to spend that $60 here instead.
OGR needs more folks to become subscribers and/or supporting members!
@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from since the average age on the forum has been trending downward among those of us still living. We receive hundreds of applications on average per month and those are averaging in the mid 50's.
That is encouraging Alan. Given how extremely helpful our community is on here, that is also a bonus. Take for example how recently a 3rd Rail S2 Turbine underwent a transformation to become very nearly one of the best and most realistic smoking model of it that there is. A great number of minds gave an extremely helpful bits of information to do just that.
More projects like that are always being done, and it is a great thing to see on here I must say.
@Craftech posted:Alan,
Wouldn't Lionel, Atlas, and MTH help out if you asked them? Or the forum sponsors for that matter.
John
Hi John, all three of the above mentioned in your post are sponsors and supporters of the magazine and forum. They regularly participate in one way or another so I think they understand the value and reach of this forum as far as our segment of the hobby.
@eddie g posted:CTR, "I am not a member of the TCA and have no plans to become one" Your loss.
With all due respect to all of the TCA members. Outside of "getting in to York" . What else did they have to offer a newcomer, or existing hobbyist for that matter?
These days dealers hand out free catalogs, and I'm not interested in "themed" trains or rolling stock. What am I missing? Comraderie? I think there's a fair amount of that here.
Imo, it's a "dated" concept. Thus the average age of 75.This forum is far more useful than a membership badge to a club.
We have it ALL here, anytime, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. New trains, old trains, real trains, scenery ,repairs, videos, train dealers, train manufacturers etc.etc. it would seem the paper version of the magazine may eventually be on borrowed time.
A close second is youtube, which gives modelers a format to show , demonstrate , or tutorial all of those above.
Between the two, anybody can reach or be reached about oguage anywhere in the world.
@RickO posted:With all due respect to all of the TCA members. Outside of "getting in to York" . What else did they have to offer a newcomer, or existing hobbyist for that matter?
These days dealers hand out free catalogs, and I'm not interested in "themed" trains or rolling stock. What am I missing? Comraderie? I think there's a fair amount of that here.
Imo, it's a "dated" concept. Thus the average age of 75.This forum is far more useful than a membership badge to a club.
We have it ALL here, anytime, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. New trains, old trains, real trains, scenery ,repairs, videos, train dealers, train manufacturers etc.etc. it would seem the paper version of the magazine may eventually be on borrowed time.
A close second is youtube, which gives modelers a format to show , demonstrate , or tutorial all of those above.
Between the two, anybody can reach or be reached about oguage anywhere in the world.
And don't forget the thousands of videos (just like on YouTube) that are posted here and are available without...I say WITHOUT commercial interruptions!!
Sorry Alan I think I meant in terms of them contacting TCA in support.
I just sent a rather polite email to them laying out some reasons to reconsider including You Tube videos seen by thousands, and young people I know that frequent both forums some of whom subscribe to the magazines, but coming from a company like Lionel I would think it might have more persuasive weight.
John
As mentioned, You tube is loaded with every aspect of model railroading. O Gauge and O Scale layouts, HO, N, TT S. Plus how to just about everything, to fix, how to add sound, how to paint, how to build a loco, etc, etc. Might be worth while for OG to place an add on there if not cost prohibitive....
@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:It is difficult to understand where that statistic is coming from
The only time I ever reported my age to the TCA (or maybe it was to Eastern Division) was to get a senior discount for attending York. If they are mining this data now, it would certainly skew the average age statistic upwards. Out of the pages of 1984, the other way they could calculate is to plug all the member's name and address into publicly available data bases that readily reveal one's age. Or maybe they just guess!!
This is a very shortsighted decision by the TCA and once they hear the reaction from their members, I think they will reconsider.
Certainly, declining TCA membership will not be reversed by removing TCA's presence from OGR. Instead, the TCA needs to do a careful self-examination of how they can change in order to promote the hobby and make their organization more attractive. And OGR needs to be part of that.
In my opinion, OGR Magazine and the Online Forum are the two most prominent and worthwhile media that bring O gauge model railroaders together and serve as a focal point for their interests. I enjoy reading OGR magazine and writing articles for it. The OGR Online Forum has become my primary source of information about the hobby and the products that manufacturers are offering. 95% of my model railroad purchases are with OGR Forum sponsors. If the TCA wants to attract new members, it seems to me that the OGR Magazine and the Forum are the places to do it.
As I see it, OGR is the preeminent publication in the hobby and its combination of print and online content is second to none. I used to subscribe to several other model railroading publications but OGR is the only one that I continue to read. I spend hours throughout the day reading the Forum. Yes, I'm elderly and not a member of TCA because my primary interest is scale-sized modern O gauge trains. OGR is the most worthwhile expenditure in my opinion.
MELGAR
@JSmith posted:There is an old saying - "Don't bite the hand that feeds you." The TCA did just that with this move.
Jack
Seems to be the thing to do over the last few years. Between the TCA/Lionel feud with regard to York and now this, we're being treated like unwanted step children.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I get the sense that Alan Arnold has been the driving force at making this Forum as successful as it's been, which is of tremendous benefit to all of us active Forumites, and to our beloved hobby in general.
The least we can do, as Alan requests, is support the Forum and OGR Magazine by becoming, and continuing to be, subscribers and/or supporting members.
Regarding the TCA, I joined it many years ago because vendors at train shows would accept my checks when I flashed my TCA membership card. LOL, Arnold
@RickO posted:With all due respect to all of the TCA members. Outside of "getting in to York" . What else did they have to offer a newcomer, or existing hobbyist for that matter?
These days dealers hand out free catalogs, and I'm not interested in "themed" trains or rolling stock. What am I missing? Comraderie? I think there's a fair amount of that here.
Imo, it's a "dated" concept. Thus the average age of 75.This forum is far more useful than a membership badge to a club.
We have it ALL here, anytime, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. New trains, old trains, real trains, scenery ,repairs, videos, train dealers, train manufacturers etc.etc. it would seem the paper version of the magazine may eventually be on borrowed time.
A close second is youtube, which gives modelers a format to show , demonstrate , or tutorial all of those above.
Between the two, anybody can reach or be reached about oguage anywhere in the world.
Rick you are right on. As others noted the TCA newsletter -at least for me is a waste - mostly very old trains that don’t interest me. York is the reason for me to belong. If for example TCA had made an online forum active like OGR then they would be more relevant, but they have no useful on line presence.
I have met more great train people on this forum, many I later met in person at York, but no real “help” from TCA.
as many point out, York is complements of hard work by the eastern division, hard to see any real benefit of national TCA.
Wish them the best. But engaging new people especially online is all about finding great content - based on history OGR has great content TCA - not do much…….
Articles are driven by what is contributed. "What is contributed" is driven by what gets published; you get a lot of "more of the same". Many stories are marginally publishable. "How I Put Together My 11 Car Canadian Pacific Passenger Set" is somewhat interesting. I bought the 9 Lionel PWC cars, added 2 Weaver cars (1 with a reproduction stripe). The locomotives are LTI F3s with reproduction 2373 shells - one of which I bought for $ 10 - and a Lionel Trains LLC PWC B unit with sounds. The hard part is expanding two sentences into two pages.
Wow… TCA wants to attract younger members - a very worthy effort indeed - but to do so they seem to be willing to disenfranchise their main body of paying members. Given the choice of reading OGR’s digital magazine and this forum, and reading TCA materials, OGR wins HANDS DOWN every time. The forum has a pretty broad spectrum of members of many ages, from the diehard pre and post war aficionados to the new YouTube generation, and pretty much everything in between. Rather than cut off OGR (I can’t speak to CTT), TCA might be better served by emulating OGR rather than cutting it off.
More on articles. I've thought about posting the cardstock buildings I've created on model train forums. The hard part is creating a JPG file from my source material and writing directions on how to create usable source materials by rescaling my file.
I've got a cardstock hobby shop building. Making a posting would mean sanitizing my material. I have a "Lionel Electric Trains" sign - it's not the official artwork but it's close. Something I can't distribute.
@RickO posted:With all due respect to all of the TCA members. Outside of "getting in to York" . What else did they have to offer a newcomer, or existing hobbyist for that matter? TCA serves as a repository of historical and reference information for which they offer access. The TCA museum houses a collection of significant pieces that anyone can visit - IMO it's one of the best museums anywhere - not the largest, but it gets the point across effectively. TCA compiled and enforces a system of grading standards. These are all highly valuable resources that will disappear if TCA dies. Will virtual organizations like LCCA or OGR do these things?
These days dealers hand out free catalogs, and I'm not interested in "themed" trains or rolling stock. What am I missing? Comraderie? I think there's a fair amount of that here. Virtual comraderie is nice, but it pales in comparison to the in-person kind. I've gotten far more from real interpersonal interaction.
Imo, it's a "dated" concept. Thus the average age of 75.This forum is far more useful than a membership badge to a club. If all you get from a club is a badge, then I agree. The value of any organization is a function of what you contribute to it.
We have it ALL here, anytime, 24 hrs a day 7 days a week. New trains, old trains, real trains, scenery ,repairs, videos, train dealers, train manufacturers etc.etc. it would seem the paper version of the magazine may eventually be on borrowed time. When the magazine website or online channel goes out of business, where will that stuff go?
A close second is youtube, which gives modelers a format to show , demonstrate , or tutorial all of those above. It's great to go into someone's basement and actually smell the ozone, or have them show you how to do something. Even better is to do the same for someone else.
Between the two, anybody can reach or be reached about oguage anywhere in the world.
See above
I think the TCA is shooting themselves in the foot by doing this.
@Quarter Gauger 48 posted:As mentioned, You tube is loaded with every aspect of model railroading. O Gauge and O Scale layouts, HO, N, TT S. Plus how to just about everything, to fix, how to add sound, how to paint, how to build a loco, etc, etc. Might be worth while for OG to place an add on there if not cost prohibitive....
It is not cost affective....very expensive and that is why you see mostly national brands advertising on YT. OGR has a small YT channel but a larger FB page that is pretty active with lots of posts and videos. We promote our product on various "cost effective" sites.
@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:The TCA, in my opinion, appears to many newcomers to be a "collector" organization by virtue of its name. This may be a problem in today's market since the emphasis in recent times is more on operating trains and building layouts.
This is the main reason I have never looked at joining. I'm not a collector. I'm an operator through and through. I assume the TCA hangs out and talks about obscure models. I completely appreciate that but it's just not my thing. I admire the equipment of yesterday (and own some) but it doesn't fit with my daily operations.
I'm concerned about this news because I think it reaffirms that things are changing. I don't mind change but I don't enjoy it when I'm unsure about where things will land.
I’m one of the older age group in the TCA. I’ve been in the TCA for 25 years and the only reason I joined was being able to go to York. I’ve been to the TCA museum once. I see no other benefit other than going to York. I believe TCA is making a mistake. The 2 biggest publications for supporting the hobby are OGR and CTT. There is No other place that I ever have heard about the York show. IMO this decision was made by a group of TCA leaders that really have No idea where the hobby is at the present time and still look at the Hay Day of the TCA and don’t want to see it go away.
I’m speechless…….now I know what shooting yourself in the foot feels like…
Peter
I would like to offer my perspective of this issue being the TTOS Southern Pacific Division President and working through all of the challenges we have all seen these past few years. I have learned quite a lot in running the TTOS Southern Pacific Division and the success is due to the Board Members and volunteers that help to make it happen and I own the mistakes. Period.
Now, there are a lot of challenges in getting younger audiences into the hobby and we use all sorts of media, from Facebook to YouTube to email to community postings to get the word out. We ask our guests what they want and we do our best to respond. In the past year we have gone from having an O gauge and a Standard gauge meet loop to an N scale meet loop, HO Scale, S scale, O gauge, and Standard gauge meet loops running along with volunteers to do basic train engine repairs, and portable layouts. We have a cafe to feed folks. We do our best to get the families out to spend time with the trains. Our Vice President Glenn Olsen puts together low cost starter sets to help get families started into the hobby and this has created more foot traffic. We have learned to always be recruiting sellers, buyers, attendees, and volunteers.
It is a tough job and many of the people that attend will not be buying a premium set soon, but I tend to think sometime in the future as we create an atmosphere of running and enjoying our trains they will. Maybe we don't have super fancy expensive auctions and super rare trains all of the time, but did you have that kind of money when you were a kid?
We look at our TTOS Southern Pacific Division as a club that is building a new train generation of hobbyists who we hope will always remember to have fun in this great wonderful hobby. Have we made adjustments to our business model? You bet! In fact last year we did our first 2 day Super Meet in December and are planning to do it again.
Times and people change and grow either change and grow or go.
@OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:I explained that about 85 percent of TCA's message on OGR went to online participants: namely the forum (with millions of page views per month) and our online magazine which is growing. Unfortunately this was met with "the decision has been made." Budget constraints were sited with a drastic cut across the board for advertising.
This is the part that basically makes no sense to me. They want to reach out to a younger demographic, but then they cut ties with a magazine/forum where, as you said, most of the news or topics from the TCA is read online, which of course many young people use. I know I am just one guy, but I originally found the OGR magazine through the forums on the internet. And not that I don't read magazines anymore, but it's nothing compared to how much I read on a computer. I guess what I am saying is that this website absolutely helped me get more connections to anything model or toy train related, or information in general, and so to me it seems like a "biting the hand that feeds" situation. Although I don't know what the TCA's biggest source of advertisement is. I don't know if it was suggested already, but my guess is that maybe they want to increase their online presence on their own, and not just through other organizations or entities.
