Very odd DCS signal of 1 on Railking Big Boy

One example that comes to mind is when the power is not strong on the rails. Extra cars or engines draw more and the power dips. When the power isn't there fully the signal can dip as well.

If this is the problem you would look at how strong your track connections are. How many you have. Is the loop divided in at least one spot?

the led cars might be causing a DCS problem. you might need to add a choke coil before the car electronics ! 1.8 uh  micro henry choke coil same as one used in ps 3 steam or diesel kits 50-1911 steam! that may correct the dcs problem! (AI-0000044) (T) Inductor or otherwise know as a choke coil!

Alan

Uhh Alan, the proper value is a 22uh choke, 1.8uh ain't gonna' cut it.  You can use a higher value than 22uh, but going lower isn't advised.

1.8uh has a reactance of 35 ohms at 3.17mhz, 22uh has a reactance of 438 ohms at 3.17mhz.

@p8ntballer789 posted:

Hello,

I have another interesting dilemma going on. I have a Railking Big Boy PS3 (30-1582-1) that can't be found by dcs commander when I add my new Strasburg woodside (LED lit) cars, to the track. (commander finds Big Boy without the led cars on track)

My Strasburg Woodside (LED) cars didn't have any any chokes, and they also didn't have any anti-flicker capacitors.  I ended up fixing both of these issues.

MTH Premier Woodside LED Lighting Fix

you may even need to install a choke in the engine depending on what exact year it was built.

Joe, where are you suggesting installing a choke in the locomotive?  Since this is a DCS locomotive, one can only presume that it shouldn't need protection from the DCS signal.

You don't know where to install the choke Sir? 

I have a couple of MTH engines that needed "adjustments". Being a tech, I figure you would have seen this too?

Out of curiosity, did you try the DCS signal test with fewer than 3 LED-cars?

Per GRJ's link, do your cars have no-flicker protection....instantly turning off if you lift them off the track?  It's just that on the first Premier Woodside cars I found it says "constant voltage" LED lighting which typically suggests more electronics than what GRJ shows (before he modified them).

Finally, what transformer/brick did you use to feed the DCS Commander vs. the Explorer?  I'm wondering if there's an AC vs. DC power issue.

Stan, I was pretty surprised to see no caps in the cars, not what I expected.

@Engineer-Joe posted:

You don't know where to install the choke Sir? 

I have a couple of MTH engines that needed "adjustments". Being a tech, I figure you would have seen this too?

Other than upgrades using the CV board in a steam locomotive, I've never needed a choke in any DCS engine.  Can you be more specific what engines needed this?

Thank you all for the replys, 

when powering the commander or explorer, I use the same MTH Z500 transformer. (basic 0-54 loop, no divides, all new track from May)

The Big Boy does have a signal strength of 1 without any cars present on the track as well, according to the commander. The led woodside cars I think kill the weak signal and can't be found via commander. but the explorer see's the big boy with the led woodside cars...

If a loco like the Big Boy has a signal strength of 1, what should I look for? Board was recently serviced and been running great since. The signal strength of 1 really throws me off though.

Well, the signal strength of one would cause me some concern as well!  How do other engine fare?  Have you tried the BB on a short piece of track connected directly to the TIU channel?  It's quite possible that you have a TIU issue.

maybe a wire routing problem?

GRJ, a tech friend of mine pointed out that there was a cure for my (new at that time) 1 Gauge PS3 Big Boy's weak signal. It was something that needed correcting. He asked me not to share it publicly, so I don't. The engine would start up fine and loose signal after just a few MPH. Then, I had no control.

That could be Joe, I see very few 1 gauge products.  I do find it odd that a tech wouldn't share something like that.

@p8ntballer789 posted:

...

The Big Boy does have a signal strength of 1 without any cars present on the track as well, according to the commander. The led woodside cars I think kill the weak signal and can't be found via commander. but the explorer see's the big boy with the led woodside cars....

Did you happen to determine if your woodside LED cars have flicker rejection?  The question is whether they have capacitors in them.  If MTH is claiming "constant voltage" LED lighting, it's hard to believe this can be implemented without capacitors.  Yet, as GRJ showed in his modified woodside thread there were NO capacitors in the cars!

Separately, there have been occasional threads about re-routing the power wires in the engine to improve DCS signaling.  For example, here's a very well documented PS3 modification by SanDiegoMark.

The technical analysis of why DC vs. AC operation might be different is complicated involving electro-magnetic analysis.  But if Engineer-Joe's 1-Gauge Big Boy was operating on DC (?) note that  the DCS Commander also puts DC on the track.  OTOH, that both signaling issues were with a Big Boy (albeit different gauge) I think is a coincidence.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

That could be Joe, I see very few 1 gauge products.  I do find it odd that a tech wouldn't share something like that.

I did share it with you before. You may have forgotten. I was asked to remove the post.

I was informed it was with all MTH products released in that shipment or time frame. Maybe that's not right?

If the OP could take and post a picture with the shell off of the Big boy's board, wiring and motors, I could see if it's what I am describing.

Hmm...  I guess those gray cells died.   I do recall some noise suppression on motors for some models.

Stan,

The woodside cars illuminate instantly when powered on, then if i lift off the tracks it dims out within a second. No flickering at all, if thats what you mean?

Joe, Attached are a few pictures of the big boy when i sent the board out last month.

Ps2 triplex has dcs signal 10, then signal strength of 7-9 with woodeside cars. Thats acceptable to me, just need to get the BB's signal back up! 

@p8ntballer789 posted:

...

The woodside cars illuminate instantly when powered on, then if i lift off the tracks it dims out within a second. No flickering at all, if thats what you mean?

...

Understood.  Since it "dims out" rather than instantly turns off tells me there are indeed capacitor(s) in each car.  GRJ's earlier link to his woodside modification project showed at one point MTH did NOT have capacitor(s) in each car.  

Does anyone know the MTH history of these LED cars?  Did they put in the "DCS choke" inductor component in some versions and how can you tell without opening the car up?

I don't think it's a stretch to conclude there are 2 things going on here.  Thing 1 is the Big Boy signaling.  Thing 2 is the woodside LED car effect on DCS signaling.

Hard to believe that MTH would forget the chokes in their cars, but I've seen some odd things come across my bench, so anything's possible!

I bet the cars still need chokes added.

I don't see anything clearly wrong inside the BB from here so I would look at the power connections (like at the rollers?) for paint on the screws messing up the signal.

If you have a meter you could verify full 0 ohms from the rollers to the red wire at the board and the same with the black wire from the main drivers and chassis to the board. I'm not positive how this is wired. I have seen some 3 rail versions not getting good ground from all the possible points. That was on premier ones with the 3/2 switch though.

 I had a thought, ()

that you could connect wires to the engine directly and see how strong a signal you then get with the DCS remote?

Im thinking the cars down the line will need chokes and can easily do myself thankfully. (Only got 3pc set with  add on car so far, opposed to full 7pc set, broke college kid🙄) 

I will test the BB with multimeter, appreciate the how to, this community is awesome! Also will test wires directly to BB with commander.

The BB still has a signal reading of 1 even by itself, I'll inspect the rollers and wheels carefully tomorrow night when im home. 

FWIW, I've rewired a bunch of stuff with the 2-rail/3-rail switch to eliminate that switch and the DCS Polarity switch for more reliable running.  That's a fairly common request.  MTH used ten cent switches for track power, it doesn't always work out well.  That also eliminated the flaky connection with the spring on the drawbar to conduct power, another really bad idea!  Here's how I bypass them.

Click on graphic to expand.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

FWIW, I've rewired a bunch of stuff with the 2-rail/3-rail switch to eliminate that switch and the DCS Polarity switch for more reliable running.  That's a fairly common request.  MTH used ten cent switches for track power, it doesn't always work out well.  That also eliminated the flaky connection with the spring on the drawbar to conduct power, another really bad idea!  Here's how I bypass them.

Click on graphic to expand.

JOHN , you have mentioned the problem with the 2 and 3 rail switch and the DCC/DCS switch before and I have been eliminating them also with good results.

I also use the non painted screws for the ground wire connections on the truck housings.   Since MTH has done an extraordinary job on their paint , I also have to  remove paint in the screw holes and also on areas connecting the pilot and trailing trucks wherever springs or moving parts are involved.  The tender gets  a going over also. 

Occasionally I find screws that have to show good continuity not being very tight and I slightly distress a couple of threads to ensure a locking effect.     I thought about using good old Locktite Blue but I didn't  know if this would end up being an insulator.

I've never thought about Loctite causing continuity issues, but I can't imagine it would be a significant issue.  The Loctite fills in the slight voids where the threads are not in perfect contact.