VISION LINE BIG BOYS ON THE BENCH !

I haven't been able to watch batteries yet but what the heck happened?!

Was there any explanation as to a possible cause?

From what the guy told me, it derailed and sat on a live track cooking for a while. Didn't have anything to do with the electronics itself. Hence well done lol

Alex

Yikes! That's good to know that sort of thing can happen.

WOW. That had to produce some smoke...

A cooked VL Big Boy is why some people cannot have nice things.

You have to wonder what the power source was that it didn't trip a breaker of other protection.

I can smell that electronic burnt smell from here.  Good luck trying to get a hold of Lionel to order those parts.

Ouch!

Good Lick with that ALEX.  Yes I’m with MARTY wonder why the transformer didn’t trip?  Expensive repair!!! Ouch !!!

Unfortunate! :-(

@laz1957 posted:

Good Lick with that ALEX.  Yes I’m with MARTY wonder why the transformer didn’t trip?  Expensive repair!!! Ouch !!!

This is the very reason I use PSX-AC and don't rely on built in circuit breakers from who evers transformer.

https://tonystrains.com/produc...gent-circuit-breaker

Oh sugar Alex, that's just plain awful. I suspect this must have happened at a club layout or something similar, where the owner's attention was distracted and he failed to notice it had mysteriously stopped. That happens.

The last two pix of the fried mobo/driver board make you want to cry. Let us know how it goes.

"There is no problem that can't be fixed by a liberal application of cash!"

Rod

I second  the recommendation as to the benefit of using a PSX-AC.  Relatively inexpensive compared to the cost or repairing a Big Boy.

Marty

This is why you need a fuse inline with your track power with older PW transformers....... seen this many times myself.

Alex,

Forget about those CHEAP vision line big boys. What your work bench needs is a gray vision line Niagra

Erol

Wow Alex good thing your the expert on fixing Lionel Visioning trains, knowing your repairing it the train when completed will run better then when it was new and should last many many years!

Great job Alex can't wait to see  it run when you show the video's after all the repairs are done !

Alan Mancus

That's some bonfire Alex, I'll be interested to see what you find as the cause.  I've had a couple of RCMC's go up in smoke, and it was pinched or chaffed wires grounding that took them out.  I also had three RCMC's die from shorted Canon motors, one I rescued by replacing drive FETs, the other two got new boards.  That one looks like the motor was drawing a lot of power, so I'd consider closely checking that motor!  Maybe the guy would like a Pittman in place of the junky Canon motor, I know I'd like to put a Pittman in mine!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Maybe the guy would like a Pittman in place of the junky Canon motor, I know I'd like to put a Pittman in mine!

Lionel already beat you to the punch and installed a Pittman at the factory .

That's an Ametek Pittman in the locomotive.

locolawyer - Just a hint for future reference - When Niagra rhymes with Viagra you know you've misspelled it.   

@MartyE posted:

You have to wonder what the power source was that it didn't trip a breaker of other protection.

I thought the same thing Marty. To sit there and cook means absolutely no protection whatsoever. A ZWL would have saved it instantly.

@MartyE posted:

You have to wonder what the power source was that it didn't trip a breaker of other protection.

Postwar transformer with no added circuit protection most likely. You'd be surprised at the number of guys with high dollar locomotives who do this. Same people who complain that modern trains "aren't durable" .

From what I’ve seen, this is where Alex shines!....that’s a lot of damage,......the right man is on the job!....believe me, I would have puked up my shoes!...😳 🤮get em’ Alex,....show em’ how it’s done!...

Pat

Just fixing that wiring is going to be a treat, I recently had one that looked like that, a lot of time reconstructing!

@Lou1985 posted:

Postwar transformer with no added circuit protection most likely. You'd be surprised at the number of guys with high dollar locomotives who do this. Same people who complain that modern trains "aren't durable" .

Good point Lou! A lot of times you can tell who, because they are repeat offenders.

I'll never understand why someone can spend $1000 on a locomotive but can't justify 80 bucks on a Lionel 180w brick. With one of the fastest breakers in the hobby.

@Lou1985 posted:

Lionel already beat you to the punch and installed a Pittman at the factory .

That's an Ametek Pittman in the locomotive.

So it does, I had forgotten that was one of the last Legacy locomotives with a real motor.  I guess I don't have to upgrade mine...   However, I have tons of other Legacy with the substandard Canon motor that are screaming for a better motor.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

So it does, I had forgotten that was one of the last Legacy locomotives with a real motor.  I guess I don't have to upgrade mine...   However, I have tons of other Legacy with the substandard Canon motor that are screaming for a better motor.

Yep,....I’m a step ahead of you fellas,....my ESE now sports a healthy Pittman,.....thank god I caught it in the nick of time!.....that board is supposed to protect itself, but I wasn’t willing to find out if it would or wouldn’t,......the procedure for removing the sub-par Cannon is simple, remove motor, hold your fingers over your nose, pinch it off, with your other hand, grasp the cannon motor and walk over to the nearest waste receptacle, drop it in, and remove fingers from nose,.....done,...😬

Pat

I'm more concerned about the procedure to put the Pittman back in and get it running.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm more concerned about the procedure to put the Pittman back in and get it running.

It’s practically a bolt in swap, ....only thing I had to do was clean up the bore on the flywheel, just a wee bit on the ESE,......when you look up a lot of the parts, most say Pittman/Cannon right on the part description,.......in my case, the flywheel was just a little too tight for my liking.....I probably could have tapped it on and been fine, but I was worried about never getting it back off again,.....so I just cleaned up the bore for a snug slip fit ,......easy peasy,....

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

.so I just cleaned up the bore for a snug slip fit ,......easy peasy,....

Says the guy with a lathe to make it easy peasy!

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Says the guy with a lathe to make it easy peasy!

Gotta look to alternative solutions then,.....just run the Pittman in your hand and hold a piece of emery cloth to the shaft and polish it down,.....like I said, it was real close out the gate, just needed a tiny bit of tweaking,......that’s easy peasy ,....no??...

Pat

Seeing this post is up for discussion, ....

You guys got me thinking that I may swap out the MTH motor in my Big Boy down the road. I haven't had any motor failures with MTH yet. I did notice that this new one draws a lot of amps. I want to see if it goes down when it breaks in better. I can't bring myself to go inside yet.

Alex,

Thanks for sharing.  Very interesting repair story.

D.

Thanks for sharing your work again Alex. Interesting to see what can happen to these.

With all of these "new" gadgets, miles of tightly bound wiring. 18 volts of juice free running into all of those boards through those wire bundles. Lucky that was all that caught fire, after seeing that VL big boy insides. It's a wonder more of these engines don't catch fire with the amount of heat buildup in these boards and wiring. Kind of make's you want to go back to williams and just enjoy the throttle control.

Good luck Alex, when we got back from a fire in an electrical room. Fubar melted together wiring awaits the electrician, or even worse was transformer fires on telephone poles. If the case burned open, the burning oil would land on the 2-3" thick phone line cable. Poor phone company repair guys was there 24/7 for 4 days splicing the thin lines back together. 

I have to agree with Superwarp 1 about using the PSX-AC's. We at the N.J. Hi-Railers and The Raritan Valley Hi-Railers have them on all tracks and they are a God send. They can save you a lot of money on electrical repairs. At $50.00+ dollars, it's a no brainer!

    Steam Forever

            John

Alex, you are the man! Can't imagine wading into this kind of stuff every day. Good for you for taking this on.

For those that say they see a lot of boards looking like this due to old slow breaker transformers, how many have encountered DCDRs, DCDSs, or even ERR look like that? I have taken my share of engines apart and never seen this kind of damage, maybe blown transistors or triacs, easily replaced but not melted boards. Only TAS EOBs have I seen blown traces.

One of the reasons I prefer the older technology.

Pete

A lot of users say that's new stuff for you. I think just about anything would melt in these derail cases. Dropping to the floor on the other one, is the end of anything.

It makes me wonder why a company like Aristocraft installed poly fuses in there stuff and nobody else does? Are they that expensive or hard to add?

@Engineer-Joe posted:

It makes me wonder why a company like Aristocraft installed poly fuses in there stuff and nobody else does? Are they that expensive or hard to add?

I've added PTC's to many engines, I used to do it for all the ERR CC-Lite installations after smoking a board on a brief motor stall.  I would also add them for any battery powered locomotive.  In passenger cars, when I upgrade lighting, I add a PTC between the two truck wires so a derailment doesn't fry the wiring.

No, they're not expensive and not hard to add.