Vision Line Centipede price decline

I seen them as low as 1400.I saw one run I liked it but you need a lot of room to run them. 

They don't visually appeal to me, but that's just me.

I'd much prefer any scale steam to a Baldwin Centipede or two.

That's what happens when they over produce and they don't sell what they thought it would be.

1) They are expensive in a bad economy.

2) Many people that wanted Centipedes had already bought MTH's version.

3) They were $1000.00 more than MTH's plastic Centipedes

 

They may not have taken the above into consideration when producing the engine which may mean they over estimated the numbers of units they would sell. That would create a buyers market.

Scott Smith

If I had been seriously collecting three-rail with a Texas theme (I only have a few pieces), I'd seriously consider adding a Lionel N de M centipede, since they were used in helper service near Saltillo, Mexico, in the early 1960's. But since I mostly collect the New Haven, I'm going to pass up this splendid opportunity.

It's also a strange looking bird IMHO.

 

That's a lot of coin to plunk down on something that is really a niche locomotive. 

Over priced to start with.

Cheaper alternatives on the market.

Limited appeal although I'd have a pair myself...many don't like them.

Need lots of space to even display much less run them.

When they hit $500 I'll buy!!!

I purchased the 5 Stripe PA CENTIPEDE SET, $2250 with Tax... I took the set home, un-packed these heavy monsters, the windows were out, place them on the track, they would not start up...They were returned to Lionel, at there expense, and returned back to me....Again, windows out, however they ran...I called Lionel back and explained that

the windows were out,, they gave my money back..Tax and all...I am happy that Lionel did this...I did not ask Lionel to do this...I think Lionel Has a Great Customer Service

and I look forward to the New Visions Big Boy!!!!

 

And in 3 years my lionel legacy will be running and your mth will need new boards .. 

One Vision Line locomotive I've been waiting for price to come down on is the Santa Fe 2-10-10-2. Even though I've focused primarily on the NYC this is just one of those huge steamers that carries a universal appeal for me. Haven't seen any dip below $1500 yet.

I paid $900.00 for my N de M Centipede.  I bought it because it was worth it to me.  I do not wait for blow outs, because you are just as likely to miss out on an engine as you are to save money on it. I don't pay attention to "what an engine is worth", because whatever it is, it will be less than I paid for it.

 

I enjoy this engine very much.  Mine makes very little fan noise.  I can only hear the fans if the volume is totally down. 

According to Lionel's website:

 

In the mid-1940s, Baldwin Locomotive Works created a behemoth two-unit diesel prototype, the DR-12-8-1500/2, generating orders from the Pennsylvania, Union Pacific (but never received), Seaboard Air Line, and NdeM railroads.

 

So of the 4 RRs and the Baldwin demo model, Lionel made only 3 of the 5.

 

From this article:

 

http://www.trainweb.org/seaboard/CentipedeProject.htm

 

It sounds like SAL got the most out of these engines, yet Lionel did not include SAL in their lineup

 

The main reasons I didn't bother looking at it were cost and 2 A units.  A single unit would have been alright, but still too expensive for a toy.

 

MTH did make the SAL unit(s) but again, as a AA set, albeit for $750.  I would have bought a single A unit at 1/2 the price of the AA set.

 

As far as I'm concerned, another sales opportunity lost by both makers.

I find it most interesting that this whole 'Pede affair, be it Lionel or MTH, is going down the same road as the prototype locos of many moons ago. seems both of these beasts are fraught with oodles of mechanical and electrical issues, and who knows how many more will surface as the units log more mileage. Sounds like a DPM report from TRAINS magazine from the '50s!  Won't be the first time this phenomenon has appeared, as virtually ever Centipede model ever made in any scale has been problematic, to say the least.  OTOH, modelers and collectors have options the big roads never did...shelf 'em for the duration!  The temptation has been around of late to get a set of these guys in HO scale; PRR single stripe from BLI...and if I ever bite, I'd surely know what I was setting myself up for!

The MTH  BP20's have now been running "well" for over 12 years. One of my favorites diesel engines on the rooster, is used in both freight and passenger service.

 

 

I pre-orderd one of these when MTH cataloged them back in 1999. I believe the price I paid was $630.

 

If you like big Pennsy power, they are a must have. Mine have been completely trouble free. Like all of my other MTH PS1 engines, I have replaced the battery with a BCR.

 

 

 

 

FWIW the fact that future Legacy and Vision Lionel locos will now be "build to order", I doubt we'll see the big discounts anymore.

 

Either you will pay the going price or you will miss out, and no more overstock to be "blown out".

 

Having said that, maybe if Lionel only has to build the amount that will actually sell, maybe they can build them right.........maybe.

Dealers can still order more then what was ordered.   I don't expect excess with the BB given its a second run and priced for the carriage trade. My guess is, given the cost,  total production in the low hundreds.  Far less then the first issue. 
Joe   

I bought the Pennsy SS set for what I considered to be a low price right after the introduction.  They operate flawlessly and are one of the first engines the Grandkids pick to operate when they visit.

 

I bought the single stripe units because that is what operated as pushers out of Altoona for trains heading for the Curve.  Dad, an Altoona PRR Brakeman and Conductor, talked often about them, big, smokey, oily, noisy and oh so powerful.

 

When I saw Lionel make them as a die cast Vision Line offering there was no doubt I was going to own a set.

 

They may be going for a lower price now than what I paid but I've no regrets.  I've had them for what, maybe a year, and that's a year's worth of enjoyment and fun.

 

They're big, powerful, have excellent sounds, smoke, heft, lighting, detail, and a joy to operate.

 

No regrets whatsoever.

There is NO diesel that I would pay that kind of money for - either the original MSRP of $1000+ per unit, or the current going rate around 750/unit. It was a tough pill to swallow when the ABS-bodied ones got above 400, and I have bought very few at that price. The only one I can think of is the Atlas Erie Built Olympian Hiawatha. I think Lionel just hit the wall on pricing for a diesel. I wouldn't mind having the NdeM Centipede, but not at a steam engine price.

I do not own a set, but I do like them very much. The die cast heavy feel appeals to me (similar to the Veranda when it was issued) as well as the other Lionel features. I think they do make a statement on any layout.

 

So if the price is dropping, even more reason to pick up a set if your really like them.

Let me set my reply earlier Straight, I was not arguing the price, I was very interested in keeping the new PENNSYLVANIA Centipede AA SET, I just could get Lionel to ALLOW ME TO SHIP THEM SEPARATELY IN BETTER PACKING TO FIX THE WINDOWS. That's when they  Offerred to refund my money..Personally, I think they are Beautiful. I will probably buy them again when I see them in person....A good friend of mine has the UP SET, and it runs fine..Another friend of mine has the Blue Baldwin set and it runs fine...So, I do

have a great interest in the AA PA SET..ONE DAY..Happy Railroading... 

Ive got the UP Vision Line Centipedes and they are quite an impressive set of locomotives. I do run them and have had no issues. People who complain about the fan noise are whiny. Mine do make a little rattle but I cant hear it while I'm running trains, its only when I turn down the sound and stand right next to it. If they hadn't made them in UP i never would have bough a set being that they are not that special to me otherwise

In all honesty its a very tough pill to swallow, there really is no value for the money here.

If you look at the previous vision line engines they all offered something unique, state of the art, or cutting edge.

I personally expected more, better sounds, cool smoke affects, better detail, maybe matching caboose with crew talk.... however it was just not there.

As a good friend put it "There is no way I am paying a 1100.00 a piece for a diesel

 

The Pennsy CCII is way more exciting and at half the price.

 

 

 

I'll disagree somewhat.  If Lionel had made, say, a Vision ABA F3 set (it would have been about the same total length as the A-A centipede set), I'd probably have two sets at leas.  These vision centipedes are actually very nice toy locos - great sound, smoke and such, and very nice runners, with good paint and detail.  Nicely done.  Unfortunately  Baldwin centipedes are just butt-ugly - not many locomotives were uglier.  It doesn't help matters, at least for me, that the prototypes (the real locos) were pretty lousy locos, either.  Ugly and unreliable.  Ugh.  So I passed.  But I hope, sincerely hope, Lionel soon makes a Vision ATSF Warbonnet F3 A-B-A set with equivalent quality to the centipedes.  I'll buy that in a heartbeat.

As I already posted, I enjoy my N de M Centipede.  I do agree with J Daddy that I did expect more innovative features from the engine, given that it was derived from the Vision Line.  The single units were not Vision Line. I still bought it because it offered enough play value to be worth the $900.00 I spent on it. 

 

Granted the operating fans were a bonus because they were not listed as features the engine would have, so that was great.  I would have been fun if these engines had the Break Down sequence offered in older TMCC B units.  Smoke pouring out of the sides would have been cool, heck it would have been prototypical for these engines.

 

I am not sure what other features Lionel could install on a Vision Line diesel...any suggestions?

Little doubt about it, the Baldwin "Babyface" carbodies, both the Centipede and its less-powerful cousins (DR6-4-15 and DR4-4-15), were the ugliest diesels to run the rails. Disclaimer: my opinion

 

I should add: ALCO's DL109's were a close second on the ugly chart.

And THAT'S why we love them.

 

Rusty

I have videos of the Baldwin Dr-4-4-1500's pulling freight on the old CNJ.  I

love their look and had hoped they'd be made by either 'L' or 'M'.  Their shorter

scale length would have made them available to those with tighter curves. 

 

The guy on the video was a retired tower operator who shot a lot of 8 mm.

on the job in Elizabeth, N.J.  He said of the Baldwins that they smoked hugely

and were loud, but "they pretty much pulled whatever you cared to hang behind

them". 

 

     Hoppy

MTH has yet to do a BP20, altho Weaver has.   Has it been 12 years for the MTH 'Pedes????   Anyway everyone will have their own story on these puppies; some folks could theoretically never have a peep of trouble, but the moment the 'Pedes hit the track...the time bomb starts ticking..just like the real thing!   

First I think that the Lionel Models were over priced and do fit in a very limited market for people, have 072 curves, willing to spend 1600 on a locomotives and there now produced so many that most people in that niche market already has one.

PT Barnum nailed it.

Charles or just put the baldwin demonstrators for 1200 bucks! That's insane 

       
       

Don't say that TOO loudly 'cause Charlie Ro has the blue Baldwin demonstrator on sale for $1195.  Gotta love it!!!  Who said we've seen the last of blowouts???

David

Onto the second page now and still no photos of the VL models?

 

Many of us have never seen them in person and personally I'd like to see the much heralded UP version...

I really considering them .. I really wanted a set and this might of did it 1200 is such a sweet deal 

 

I can post the video of them running at Lionel's open house if you want.