WANTED DEAD or ALIVE / IS THERE A CURE FOR THIS MTH GP40 ?

GRJ , GGG , or any high tech member . Is there any hope for this PS3 / GP40 ?

Because you have a working second model, the burnt component in question can be inspected on the working one. There should be some numbers which we can research to determine exactly what make/model that component is.This component can be purchased fairly easily from any online electronics retailer.

It looks to me like a fairly simple soldering job to replace it. Having it done by an "electronics soldering" knowledgeable person would certainly help (using appropriate heat sinks to protect other components while you desolder/resolder the component in question on the PCB.  Can you take a close up photo of the same component on the working models board and or inform us of the numbers you find on it?

In my experience, when that component has burned and failed, I was unable to repair that board. The board is multilayer and when damaged from heat of a component like that I got shorts in that area and continued burning even after removing the part let alone installing a new one.

That engine died in a similar way- the user was pulling lots of heavy cars all the time pushing that engine to the max for most of it's life. The motors were looking pretty bad too, and that load finally let the magic smoke out of the board.

I'm not saying your board is not repairable, I am saying temper your expectations. No, it's NOT just as simple as finding out the part number. I wish it was, but there are aspects of PS3 repair that simply make it an additional layer of effort and luck harder than previous PS2 3V model repairs. Between the smaller component size (and thus finer soldering and specialized techniques) to just flat out identifying and getting the right replacement IC, to the fact the board can be damaged by the heat of a tiny failing component and so small once that starts, near impossible to correct.

@Dallas Joseph posted:

GRJ , GGG , or any high tech member . Is there any hope for this PS3 / GP40 ?

Find yourself another PS3 engine on the cheap, and reflash that board with the chain files and sound files of the target engine.

This is where many of us techs are at who did not have a huge parts inventory. Used PS3 deals can be found from time to time on used engines. Finding a PS3 engine for roughly the cost of a board (say $200-300) can be done, and then "parted out". That's why you see just parted out engines on the auction sites.

That said, a known limitation is that only an authorized tech can flash the name and roadnumber "serial number file" change to an engine. The user can change the name when added to the remote, but this is only stored locally in that remote and think of it as an overlay for the name display. It's just that remote displaying the edited name. If you delete or add the engine to another app instance or remote, the old original name of that engine the board came out of is what it comes up with. Again, only a certified tech with proper access and a login can make this change permanent to the board.

Dallas- That looks like part of the motor output circuit. Those small square components are traics and regulate the voltage out from the board. If the board is not damaged then it may be a simple fix. If not then.....

I would get in touch with John or GGG- their contact info is in their profiles.

Bob

Dallas, I'm sorry the GP40 has failed.  I agree with Vernon and Bob.  Even in the old days of electronics (I'm dating myself to electronics school in the mid '70s) we always had to ask ourselves if another component failed and caused the one that visibly was damaged to go too.  Now, as Vernon wrote the multi-layered boards and surface mount components who knows what else is damaged.  Yes, a certified technician would have to see what is up.

As an aside, I did not know you had any B&P engines.  I live right on top of the hill from the B&P. 

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dallas, I'm sorry the GP40 has failed.  I agree with Vernon and Bob.  Even in the old days of electronics (I'm dating myself to electronics school in the mid '70s) we always had to ask ourselves if another component failed and caused the one that visibly was damaged to go too.  Now, as Vernon wrote the multi-layered boards and surface mount components who knows what else is damaged.  Yes, a certified technician would have to see what is up.

As an aside, I did not know you had any B&P engines.  I live right on top of the hill from the B&P. 

Thanks Mark.

I'm inclined to agree with you and Vernon and Bob.

The traces also  coming from the failed component are darkened from what I can see in my photo.

Vernon has showed me a PS3 Railking  board in an electric that I would have to figure out how to download files.    Not sure how to get that done.

Well I'll have to post my FEF photo of the remaining functional  BP  GP40.

Really one of those sad events.   Gotta figure out how to get some fun out of  the layout today.

Dallas,

Are you just after a new board, or looking for a cheaper option via used?  Part# is:

As Vernon mentioned only service centers, such as I got setup years ago can load the remote display information.

You do have to be careful that when you get a new board that you verify everything appears ok before putting new board in.  Nothing on fixing trains bytes more than hooking up a new board to watch it go poof (All of us service folks have done it, even if some don't want to admit it!).  This is why I usually don't sell just boards to folks, but I have done it in the past.

Jim

Hi well I can tell you this I have a friend that bought a new ps 3 Deisel and ran way to many cars and burnt the board up where it would not draw any more current at all! ps 3 boards are very easily damaged! the board you have the ic probably burnt up because you exceeded the current the circuit could handle plus while it overheated the inner traces inside the board layered board also were damaged and are unrepairable as Vernon Barry had said!

Alan

@Alan Mancus posted:

Hi well I can tell you this I have a friend that bought a new ps 3 Deisel and ran way to many cars and burnt the board up where it would not draw any more current at all! ps 3 boards are very easily damaged! the board you have the ic probably burnt up because you exceeded the current the circuit could handle plus while it overheated the inner traces inside the board layered board also were damaged and are unrepairable as Vernon Barry had said!

Alan

Alan , when I performed the maintainence on the two GP40s as in the original post , I'm not sure if I applied more voltage with the clip connected Z1000 and Z Controller than what I did with the first successful GP40.       I didn't think there would have been an issue with that setup..... but maybe........

       In the initial search I did find that if I moved an orange  wire NOT connected to the tach reader that the volume in engine noise would increse and decrease .    I couldn't detect an issue with the speaker nor it's wiring

I'll have to try to see if there could be a short in the motors since I found no wires pinched any where.    

Thank you for the response Alan.

@Jim Sandman posted:

Dallas,

Are you just after a new board, or looking for a cheaper option via used?  Part# is:

AE1000E34

PROTOSOUND 3 / O & G GAUGE / DIESEL & ELECTRIC (UNIVERSAL) / W/SUPER CAPS / EMI-COMPLIANT

As Vernon mentioned only service centers, such as I got setup years ago can load the remote display information.

You do have to be careful that when you get a new board that you verify everything appears ok before putting new board in.  Nothing on fixing trains bytes more than hooking up a new board to watch it go poof (All of us service folks have done it, even if some don't want to admit it!).  This is why I usually sell just boards to folks, but I have done it in the past.

Jim

I'll have to keep looking further at possible problems outside of the board.

On that test track with the Z1000 and Z Controller I found it interesting that the cabin LEDs were on steady in neutral and pulsed in the forward or reverse selection.

Thank you for your response Jim

Am I reading this thread correctly? That the electronics in PS3 engines are less robust vs. PS2? That they can’t handle the same load for a sustained period?

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Am I reading this thread correctly? That the electronics in PS3 engines are less robust vs. PS2? That they can’t handle the same load for a sustained period?

WOW  MARK         This is a really interesting question .

Outside of handling more features and dumping the battery ,what is the benefit of the PS3 system ?

@Mark V. Spadaro posted:

Am I reading this thread correctly? That the electronics in PS3 engines are less robust vs. PS2? That they can’t handle the same load for a sustained period?

No. A typical locomotive pulling a typical train is not going to blow up.

PS3 takes less kindly to shorts than PS2 3V and is less repairable if it does get damaged. That's the point.

Thanks for clarifying that, Lou.

@Dallas Joseph posted:

       In the initial search I did find that if I moved an orange  wire NOT connected to the tach reader that the volume in engine noise would increse and decrease .    I couldn't detect an issue with the speaker nor it's wiring

Was the orange wire just hanging free or was it connected to anything? It's very likely that it was the orange wire connected to the volume pot. If the wire was loose it could flop around and short to the chassis. Any wire in the harness that shorts to AC chassis ground will kill the board.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Dallas, I'm sorry the GP40 has failed.  I agree with Vernon and Bob.  Even in the old days of electronics (I'm dating myself to electronics school in the mid '70s) we always had to ask ourselves if another component failed and caused the one that visibly was damaged to go too.  Now, as Vernon wrote the multi-layered boards and surface mount components who knows what else is damaged.  Yes, a certified technician would have to see what is up.

As an aside, I did not know you had any B&P engines.  I live right on top of the hill from the B&P. 

Hey Mark , how about this........

..........near Butler Pa. at the yard......and take a look at the cab number on my only surviving B&P  GP40.

I just came across the yard engine on a  video yesterday.  I couldn't wait to show you .   God speed and have a great week.

Hey, that’s great Dallas!  You know for sure it is a real engine number.  I go over the yard past the engine service facility on my way to the orthopedic surgeon and other doctors.  Our younger daughter lives on the hill by the hospital that overlooks the yard and the hospital annex with the docs is on the other side of the yard. You may see signs on buildings for Butler Health System in photographs and videos!

God speed to you too!  I start PT today for pain lower than my lumbar fusion.  It’s always something!  😆

Hi the ps3 boards are not polarity sensitive as are the  ps 2 3 volt are polarity sensitive center rail and common, and the ps 3 can handle larger sound files 4 megs if I remember correctly as the ps 2 3 volt are 1 or 2 meg files sound filers!

Alan

@Mark Boyce posted:

Hey, that’s great Dallas!  You know for sure it is a real engine number.  I go over the yard past the engine service facility on my way to the orthopedic surgeon and other doctors.  Our younger daughter lives on the hill by the hospital that overlooks the yard and the hospital annex with the docs is on the other side of the yard. You may see signs on buildings for Butler Health System in photographs and videos!

God speed to you too!  I start PT today for pain lower than my lumbar fusion.  It’s always something!  😆

I'll have to run that video again and try to see more of the surroundings Mark.

Hope you have a good PT today.     Tomorrow we have to travel to Tyrone for me to get an EKG, scans ,and whatever else I have to get tested for on my March 10  scheduled  hip replacement.   Yep , ...always something Mark

Speaking of B&P, a few went by the farm today 😁. I live about 6 miles from the original Genesee & Wyoming home base. Incidentally, the trailing engine is the most troublesome engine I’ve ever owned.

@John H posted:

Speaking of B&P, a few went by the farm today 😁. I live about 6 miles from the original Genesee & Wyoming home base. Incidentally, the trailing engine is the most troublesome engine I’ve ever owned.

That trailing engine  ( cab no. 3103 ) being a problem for you is very interesting John.   I wondered if that pair had been manufactured in the same year and same place.     I'll have to see if I can find one of the catalogs for these two.   What has been some of the most troublesome issues with your 's ?

These are the exact two that I had purchased .  I can't recall any issues with either of them except maybe doing lash ups but I never rule out operator error. 

When I had both of  them turned bottom up in conventional for the wheel cleaning was the first time they exhibited the start up in forward instead o neutral.    I don't know what happened to 3103.     It's just a shame .........these are very sharp engines.

It had been a very long time since I had them running and I never seemed to run them a lot.......just like with all the other engines I have , I like to make sure they all get a little run time now and then.

I hope you have good luck in the future with these two.     Thanks for sharing this info John.

@Lou1985 posted:

Was the orange wire just hanging free or was it connected to anything? It's very likely that it was the orange wire connected to the volume pot. If the wire was loose it could flop around and short to the chassis. Any wire in the harness that shorts to AC chassis ground will kill the board.

Well Lou , there were NO orange wires ,including the volume pot wire ,that were unattached.   I did have continuity from the pot to the #17 pin.   I had NO continuity with the frame but isulation could still be compromised with some movement.

The VP orange wire does go around the front motor  and mount  with a few others .  I'll have to take some more of this thing apart and check the wire for missing insulation when I pull the motor and plastic surround with the interior and number board lights.

Thanks for the response Lou.  I'll see if I can make some progress.   Might be a little hard the next couple of weeks though.      Take care.

@Dallas Joseph, That engine has made a trip to Chesapeake (GGG) because it would take off at full speed when powered. A conventional reset would cure it for a while before it reverted back, but the reset was very difficult because it wouldn't go into neutral. It still misses the watchdog and starts in conventional in the MU, sometimes requiring several startups to catch the watchdog. I have other PS3 engines that also do that in an MU, but not as much as this one. It will also just take off on a siding that is powered on with a switch. My three PS2 engines never miss the watchdog, and  pressing startup when on a switched siding puts them into command every time. Not so with PS3.

@John H posted:

@Dallas Joseph, That engine has made a trip to Chesapeake (GGG) because it would take off at full speed when powered. A conventional reset would cure it for a while before it reverted back, but the reset was very difficult because it wouldn't go into neutral. It still misses the watchdog and starts in conventional in the MU, sometimes requiring several startups to catch the watchdog. I have other PS3 engines that also do that in an MU, but not as much as this one. It will also just take off on a siding that is powered on with a switch. My three PS2 engines never miss the watchdog, and  pressing startup when on a switched siding puts them into command every time. Not so with PS3.

This is the same thing that went on with good old 3103 here.

It didn't start up on it's own on the DCS / TIU  when calling for one of the other 22 engines  ( mostly PS3 with 4 engines being PS2 )  but that is what it did this time on the conventional.

I did have one PS3 GP38 that on a rare occasion did start up but stayed in neutral.

It would be interesting to know what the culprit was that makes this happen .

Thanks for the reply this morning.

@John H posted:

@Dallas Joseph, That engine has made a trip to Chesapeake (GGG) because it would take off at full speed when powered. A conventional reset would cure it for a while before it reverted back, but the reset was very difficult because it wouldn't go into neutral. It still misses the watchdog and starts in conventional in the MU, sometimes requiring several startups to catch the watchdog. I have other PS3 engines that also do that in an MU, but not as much as this one. It will also just take off on a siding that is powered on with a switch. My three PS2 engines never miss the watchdog, and  pressing startup when on a switched siding puts them into command every time. Not so with PS3.

Well John , my thought about two different catalog listings seems to have gone out the window.

.......both same year .  I would doubt that there were two different manufacture countries.

Maybe just a coincidence with both of our 3103s going haywire.