Weaver Boxcars....

I had the same problem in both 2 rail and 3 rail but where I differ is once I weighted the cars my derailing problems went away. I placed the weights right over the trucks inside the boxcar where they cannot be seen. 

Sorry I can't be more help. Did you check the gauge of the wheel sets? That's what I would look into next. 

John, do these box cars have plastic or die-cast trucks? Also, when they derail is it on a switch? 

Hudson J1e posted:

I had the same problem in both 2 rail and 3 rail but where I differ is once I weighted the cars my derailing problems went away. I placed the weights right over the trucks inside the boxcar where they cannot be seen. 

Sorry I can't be more help. Did you check the gauge of the wheel sets? That's what I would look into next. 

agree 100%.  i used to routinely pull a train with >50 Weaver (P&D repaints) PS1 boxcars and they were constantly a problem until i added weight.  no idea what the NMRA recommended weight is, i just added 2-3 fender washers over each truck and the derails completely disappeared.  one caveat is that all my Weaver cars are from their very early production, don't know if their quality changed through the years.

cheers...gary

Only two "issues" with Weaver freight rolling stock:

1) Their cars are VERY light, and the addition of weight per NMRA recommended practices makes a HUGE improvement.

2) The Weaver plastic truck assemblies are absolutely NO GOOD! However, the Weaver die cast 3-Rail trucks are EXCELLENT, and should be used to replace any & all plastic trucks.

Like Phil I weighted them. They come apart very easily. I just use a pair of heavy steel washers aproximately 1/2" ID, 1 1/2" OD, 1/16" thick centered over the trucks. They now weigh the same as MTH cars

Takes about 5 minutes to do a car.

Pete

Hot Water posted:

Only two "issues" with Weaver freight rolling stock:

1) Their cars are VERY light, and the addition of weight per NMRA recommended practices makes a HUGE improvement.

2) The Weaver plastic truck assemblies are absolutely NO GOOD! However, the Weaver die cast 3-Rail trucks are EXCELLENT, and should be used to replace any & all plastic trucks.

I have about a dozen different Weaver box cars.  I agree that they are light.  All of mine have the die cast trucks.  Matt

NMRA suggestions for O Scale car weight  5 oz. car scale weight  plus 1 oz. of weight for car length, for example the Weaver PS-1 boxcar is a 40 ft long car which measures 10 inches long additional weight 10 inches times 1 oz/inch = 10 oz, total car weight should be 15 oz, I weigh theses cars a little heavy 16 to 18 oz. Ideal weight location 5 oz. inside floor location at car body bolster that mounts to truck with the screw, commonly known as truck centers..

jim sutter posted:

John, do these box cars have plastic or die-cast trucks? Also, when they derail is it on a switch? 

plastic wheels.  Various spots==3 including two turnouts...

John C. posted:

jim sutter posted:

John, do these box cars have plastic or die-cast trucks? Also, when they derail is it on a switch? 

plastic wheels.  Various spots==3 including two turnouts...

Really, "plastic wheels"?????   Must admit that I have not seen Weaver trucks with "plastic wheels". Plastic truck frames with thick metal wheel sets, but NOT "plastic wheels".

I have dozens of Weaver box cars and PS2 hoppers all of which I've changed the trucks to Atlas die-cast. I have no issues with tracking with 060 & 072 curves. I don't weight mine but would if I had issues. I like to put my cars in order of weight with the heavy ones in the front and usually run trains of between 7 &15 cars.

Hot Water posted:

John C. posted:

jim sutter posted:

John, do these box cars have plastic or die-cast trucks? Also, when they derail is it on a switch? 

plastic wheels.  Various spots==3 including two turnouts...

Really, "plastic wheels"?????   Must admit that I have not seen Weaver trucks with "plastic wheels". Plastic truck frames with thick metal wheel sets, but NOT "plastic wheels".

I have often seen 2 rail type plastic wheels but never 3 rail type plastic wheels. Plastic truck frames are very common in 3 rail Weaver trucks.

If it were me I would definitely upgrade to metal trucks and wheel sets. 

Lionel will make them under the LionScale name.

There will be new trucks and couplers from Lionel. You can get those if the Weaver trucks are not available.

Andrew

I guess the real question is will the new Lionel trucks sold separately fit the old non LD Weavers.

Weaver cars can be good if you know about all the changes they made through the years. I have no problem updating all the variations making them acceptable.

I passed up many cars on ebay lately because they all contain plastic trucks at diecast truck 39 dollar prices. Non diecast truck cars are only worth about 18 bucks on a good day. Diecast trucks are no longer available, killing the old Weaver market. According to non-green completed listings, majority of these and most trains are not selling these days. Too many uninformed sellers out there.

I am a very big fan of the Weaver 3 bay coal hoppers. I run both plastic & metal trucks. Without a load (weight) they are all over the place. Also, it does not help that I run 35+ cars around 0-54 curves.

Also, make sure that they are tight, as I've had a few derails with the truck screw being too loose on a few cars.

Last I heard lionel did not plan to sell the trucks they put on their Lionscale cars separately. That remains to be seen. The trucks they put on their PS4 flats do have a flat bolster and may work but they currently retail for more than the old Weaver Trucks did.

Edit. just checked and now the PS4 trucks are listed as unavailable. 

Pete

A lot of the Weaver plastic truck/steel wheel problems were gauge problems.  Many times the wheels would ride up on additional parts added to switches/crosses/etc. and de-rail.  We, (Fort Pitt High railers), found that if you moved the wheels out on the axle slightly the problem was corrected.  If you can buy a Weaver car at a very reasonable price, it can be fixed.  

There was also weights that could be added to the cars. Especially important to the coal cars.

Mike CT posted:

A lot of the Weaver plastic truck/steel wheel problems were gauge problems.  Many times the wheels would ride up on additional parts added to switches/crosses/etc. and de-rail.  We, (Fort Pitt High railers), found that if you moved the wheels out on the axle slightly the problem was corrected.  If you can buy a Weaver car at a very reasonable price, it can be fixed.  

There was also weights that could be added to the cars. Especially important to the coal cars.

 

More than the "gauge problem" was/is the thickness of the wheel itself. Note on the photo how much thicker that wheel is (front to back) than the equivalent wheel from the Weaver die-cast truck assemblies.

I have a lot of Weaver cars with the plastic trucks. Been running them for a lot of years and never had problems with them. I have never added weight to them either but the hoppers I did add coal loads. Maybe that I run them on larger curves makes a big difference..............Paul

Hot Water posted:

Only two "issues" with Weaver freight rolling stock:

1) Their cars are VERY light, and the addition of weight per NMRA recommended practices makes a HUGE improvement.

2) The Weaver plastic truck assemblies are absolutely NO GOOD! However, the Weaver die cast 3-Rail trucks are EXCELLENT, and should be used to replace any & all plastic trucks.

I agree with the truck suggestion.  I did the same with my boxcars except the UP Challenger and EMD 75th Aniv, cars.  The UP trucks are RED, and EMD's are silver!

Mike, are you actually pressing against the needle point of that axle? Not a good idea. The screw should be bored out so it catches the axle closer to the OD of the axle.

Pete

I run 80% Weaver plastic trucks with plastic hi rail wheels (Delrin)  I do weight the cars because I have spring loaded turnouts. I use these trucks on my Atlas rolling stock also. For me they roll better and are a lot  quieter, also lowers the car where it belongs. Kadee couplers are used.

I am looking for more Weaver plastic friction bearing trucks, If you have some your not using please contact me..... I have plenty of the roller bearing type trucks and plenty of the wheels, Hi rail and scale

Clem k

Hot Water posted:

Mike CT posted:

A lot of the Weaver plastic truck/steel wheel problems were gauge problems.  Many times the wheels would ride up on additional parts added to switches/crosses/etc. and de-rail.  We, (Fort Pitt High railers), found that if you moved the wheels out on the axle slightly the problem was corrected.  If you can buy a Weaver car at a very reasonable price, it can be fixed.  

There was also weights that could be added to the cars. Especially important to the coal cars.

 

More than the "gauge problem" was/is the thickness of the wheel itself. Note on the photo how much thicker that wheel is (front to back) than the equivalent wheel from the Weaver die-cast truck assemblies.

THANK YOU!!!  What you are describing is EXACTLY what is occurring.  You can see the wheels "ride up" on a few FROGS!  It doesn't happen on all of them thank goodness.  I adjusted my first wheel and the car works now.  What a pain.  No more Weaver.

John C. posted:

Hot Water posted:

Mike CT posted:

A lot of the Weaver plastic truck/steel wheel problems were gauge problems.  Many times the wheels would ride up on additional parts added to switches/crosses/etc. and de-rail.  We, (Fort Pitt High railers), found that if you moved the wheels out on the axle slightly the problem was corrected.  If you can buy a Weaver car at a very reasonable price, it can be fixed.  

There was also weights that could be added to the cars. Especially important to the coal cars.

 

More than the "gauge problem" was/is the thickness of the wheel itself. Note on the photo how much thicker that wheel is (front to back) than the equivalent wheel from the Weaver die-cast truck assemblies.

THANK YOU!!!  What you are describing is EXACTLY what is occurring.  You can see the wheels "ride up" on a few FROGS!  It doesn't happen on all of them thank goodness.  I adjusted my first wheel and the car works now.  What a pain.  No more Weaver.

Well... There is no more Weaver.

I'll gladly take any Weaver 40' or 50' boxcars that nobody wants...!!  Especially if they are decorated in prototypical 1950's-'60's-'70's eastern U.S. railroad schemes. 

I love them!  Mainly because you can buy them on the cheap (they are readily available on the secondary market) and put a moderately-detailed, scale-sized boxcar on the tracks at a very reasonable cost.  They are a really nice complement to the competitors' scale-sized offerings, typically at a much lower cost!

Are they light?  Yes.  But that can be easily remedied as others have mentioned above.  My method is to first add either Weaver or AtlasO die-cast trucks and couplers.  Second, I add stick-on wheel weights (as pictured below) to the interior floor over the trucks.  I add enough weight to bring them up to--or close to--the NMRA recommended standard for the particular car length.  Really easy!!

You can also use the Weaver car weights, but I personally don't like them.  My reason?  The Weaver plastic floors have molded-in "wooden floor boards" (as shown below) that look pretty good when painted/weathered.  (On a side note, I really wish MTH would do something similar on their Premier boxcars.  IMO, that would greatly enhance the look of the non-detailed, sheet-metal floors they use in many of their otherwise really nice boxcar models!)

Back to Weaver...the large, flat Weaver weights are mounted on the center of the boxcar floor and cover the nicely-detailed "floor boards", and therefore don't provide the nice "canvas" for guys like me who like to weather the interiors.

And there's absolutely no reason to over-pay for Weaver boxcars (as SIRT mentioned above), especially if they are equipped with plastic 3-rail trucks and couplers!  I've had great luck buying them in bulk quantity for $12-$20 at local train shows, and every once in a while on eBay. 

I was also able to purchase a large quantity of die-cast trucks and couplers from Weaver right after I heard the news of their closing.  Once I run out of them, I will use AtlasO trucks and couplers as they can also work on Weaver cars, and are readily available, too.

The issues I had with Plastic trucks (metal wheels) and gargraves switches was the flexible bolsters.

I use a soldering iron and epoxy to fix the sideframe pin to the bolster so that the trucks would be rigid.

I weight all of the Weaver cars I own per the NMRA suggestions that I posted previously, the 40 Ft woodside reefers, PS-1 40 ft boxcars and PS-2 covered hoppers have internal weights applied, the 2-bay coal hoppers  have interior weights applied to the exterior intermediate slope sheets above the removable center sill.  I use #11gauge(.120in) by 1 inx wide by 6 or 8 foot long steel strip, carbon steel or galvanized. This strip is hacksaw cut to the required weight length in ounces then RTV glued in position. I believe that I used #11(.120) by 3/4 in wide strip on the coal cars, although not equal to the required additional weight for this carbody, I also used coal, ballast or iron ore loads in these cars. The RTV sealant  and steel strip is available at Menards, Lowes and most hardware stores such as ACE, True Value,etc.

Referring to MIKECT response above, this is the exact location were I used RTV to add the steel weights to the intermediate slope sheets on the coal cars. After the RTV dried, the exposed surfaces of the weights were painted flat black using acrylic paint. With some exceptions the vast majority of my freight cars are Weaver, this includes PS-1 boxcars, PS-2 hopper cars, flat cars, woodside reefer cars and  2 bay and 3 bay coal cars. There prices were reasonable, cars were scale size, paint and graphics very good and after numerous telephone the customers service especially my conversations with Gary were very professional. 

With the exception of a few later purchases, all the Weaver cars have plastic truck assemblies and couplers, wheelsets steel axles and metal cast wheels. The only issue I had to fix were issues with a numbers of coupler knuckles not working correctly, I detailed this fix in the past as a posting  on 3-20-13 by VAR titled "Problem with Gargraves Uncoupling Sections", my  response to this posting was on 3/24/13, once the couplers were repaired they uncoupled between 13 to 16 volts AC.  

Well my Weaver cars work!  And the best thing is this: if you want to kill someone you may simply pickup my Weaver Cars, any one of the three, strike your victim, wash off the blood (unless you are using for Halloween weathering) and return to the layout!  Problem solved.

Weaver cars are GREAT looking and VERY AFFORDABLE.  No argument.  But, I'm done with them.  Thank you to all for their comments. 

As stated above, I weigh all my Weaver cars to nmra specs along with using the d/c trucks and couplers. No derail issues here either.

I don't have any trouble with any of my weaver cars derailing on switches or have  to add weight either. I did have a few wheels bent cause problems and wheels out of gauge. 

Center metal weight version boxcars, remove weight & bolt, place in vice, cut in half with a hacksaw. RTV each piece back inside over the trucks toward the ends. Boom – done! This will allow you to install loads and finish the floor boards.

The Weaver die-cast truck market is all dried up now. It looks like the old Weaver are heading toward the sunset as did the crappy Right Of Way Industries cars.

I see the new Lionel catalog is offering those silly old design Standard “O” Bettendorf trucks that are pretty useless.

Maybe someone will find the former Weaver truck supplier and sell the nice half tab LD style die-cast trucks & couplers again. Keep in mind, if trucks became available again, the total retrofitted car would have to be cost effective in the older MTH range. Otherwise it would approach Atlas pricing, driving up the cost. On the other hand, the demand is no longer there so it might be a gamble to produce.

Above:

"The Weaver plastic truck assemblies are absolutely NO GOOD! However, the Weaver die cast 3-Rail trucks are EXCELLENT, and should be used to replace any & all plastic trucks."

I do disagree with all of that, largely:

1 - the plastic Weaver trucks were just fine; the plastic Weaver couplers were pretty awful - I treat them as dummies - and they aren't even very good at that. The plastic tensioner (the "spring") breaks/fatigues, the knuckle does not open far enough anyway and when closed, closes too far, making them awkward to couple and uncouple, even by hand.

2 - the Weaver die-cast couplers do work fairly well, but the uncoupling plate (the "thumbtack") is often too low with insufficient travel, and can hit the middle rail. This is not awful, but needn't have happened.

3 - the Weaver wheels have thicker flange edges than most brands and do spark on some switches. This is not a deal-breaker.

4 - their cars were light; with weight I have had no trouble with their tracking performance.

5 - I liked Weaver - who didn't? - and miss them more all the time. A bigger "hole" in 3RO even than K-line's loss.  

There was a period a few years before they closed when even their metal couplers had the same issues as the plastic ones. Didn't open far enough to couple and closed too tight so you couldn't even couple them by hand. 

They replaced them for me no problem when I stopped on my way to York.

I was fortunate to find six pairs of metal trucks at York last April.

Pete