Weaver Cancelled Troop Sleeper, Kitchen and Hospital Cars

how short were they of 300?

now that i have been bitten by the military load bug, i would have ordered both.

Not sure what that says about the hobby....300 is a TINY run in the hobby industry.....I'd hope that would be easy to reach. I will admit I do not have interest in these....but thought they were very nice looking.

That's too bad that they did not get the 300 needed for each car to build them. I, like others do not do military, and with our hobby in decline its hard to get that many people to order. Maybe if a club like TCA could advertise the cars and get the 300 needed it could work?

Was 300 for each finish, "roadname", or all of a car type?  I admired these cars, recently saw prototypes on a siding in Mich., but they came after my modeled period, so.....

That is, indeed, too bad.  I'm disappointed....but for a peripheral reason.

Weaver has made an awesome diecast allied full cushion truck, an essential item on their troop cars.  For a long while, the separate-sale trucks became discontinued and unavailable.  When they announced the new run of troop cars, I asked them about reinstating the trucks for separate sale....which they agreed would happen.

The other day I checked their website....the trucks are not on the list.....again.

And, so, the drought continues.  The patience is challenged.  The re-trucking of some box cars for the express mail train will have to wait.  This project may become the sediment in the bucket.

And so it goes....

KD

Bad news for sure! I'll admit.....I didn't order them. Since Chesterfield Hobbies closed last year, I have not settled into a Weaver dealer......I likely would have had them on order since I hung out at the shop regularly.....dang!  

Peter

Surprised to hear that they couldn't get 300 orders for each car.  Especially if this was a combination of 2R and 3R?

If they were back in stock, I would have ordered 2 more sleepers to go with the cars that I already have from the first run. Have to confess, however, I didn't pre-order any cars as I was waiting on the delivery of some GGD stuff instead.

Don't really see cars that often for sale on ebay, and the last couple I have seen have been warped ones for sale.

Jim

I didn't know they required a minimum pre-order number or I would have gotten on board.

Come on Weaver! I was counting on you.

KD, I also need two sets of those Allied trucks on order with Weaver. I picked up a un decorated troop sleeper from Peterson Supply earlier this year. It was a 2 rail version, but he did not have the 3 rail Allied trucks. I placed an order with Weaver for the Allied trucks.

In an effort to complete the conversion of the troop sleeper into an NYC MOW sleeper I decided to look for a Weaver express car here on the Forum. I was going to take the trucks from the express car and install them on my troop sleeper. I found a guy on the for sell board here on the forum who had one. My plan was to use these trucks on my troop sleeper, and replace them with the ones I had on order form Weave. I could resale the express car later.  I bought the express car, and just my luck the car arrived with a broken allied truck! USPS was going to pay me for the express car, but they would have to keep the express car. I could not let them scrap out the car just for a truck. I decided to keep the car and wait for the two sets of Allied trucks from Weaver.

Come on Weaver, at least produce the Allied trucks!

This is the second time Weaver has canceled a troop sleeper on me. Years ago I pre ordered a NYC Troop sleeper they ad cataloged. It was canceled. Talk about being snake bit!

Richard

I'm not an expert but maybe it was because they didn't really offer many roadnames? Several of those listed either came in Generic/US Army or PRR MOW scheme. This is a pretty niche hobby and I suspect those that model Army trains are even a much smaller segment of the hobby. Maybe they could have offered some other MOW schemes (fantasy or not) for both east and west coast roads to get the 300 min orders. They did do that with the reefer car so maybe even that wouldn't have been enough. 

wish they would reconsider.

Makes the ones that are around now more valuable. There were blow-out deals on these "back in the day". Can't say for sure, but I'd expect that the previous sales may have had an impact on today's decision.

I had a preorder on the N&W REA car. Fortunately I found one on eBay.

Gilly

Well,

I wish Weaver would re think this. I think the demand is there, and had they made  the troop sleepers, kitchen cars, and express cars available in undecorated modles they would have made their numbers.

I am very dismayed with the way Weaver has handled this issue. I really hope they at least make the Allied trucks.

Richard

I wish they'd reconsider, too. I was planning on two sleepers and a kitchen car to go with a string of flatcars carrying eight M7 Priests. My intent was to order them as soon as I get home from this last trip to Pashtunland... in 11 days and a wakeup.

Maybe if they told us how short they were with the pre-orders, they could generate the interest needed to get the required numbers.

The lady at Weaver was very nice.  She was also surprised that they did not get enough pre-orders.  Here is their email address.  If you did not pre-order but intended to buy these cars it can't hurt to send them an email.  

customerservice@weavermodels.com

A reputable dealer recently told me that Weaver will be getting out of the train business. I asked if they were going to do any more new brass steam and they said that was the first thing to go. I hope that isn't the case. Maybe I'll have to pick up a few extra Weaver cars just to do my part. Would hate to see them go.

And do what??? I can see not running more brass.....the number you need to do is to high for many companys today....but just stop making their USA rail cars???

The hobby business is a perfect breading ground for rumors. The ones that float around the plastic kit biz can be anything from hilarious to dangerous.....I'm sure the same goes for our model trains. 

I did place my order awhile ago. Wish Weaver would reconsider!

Weaver should set-up a site where you could go online and sign up for a pre-order when the goal for a minimum is hit then production would start and you would be billed. When other potential 'buyers' see where the order count is relative to the target it may encourage them to place an order. The data can then be used for future offers.

Kinda like kick-starter system. I think that might work....or at least it would give a good idea how many would buy. Seems there is a alternative solution out there.

Weaver Trains has a website where you can preorder titled PRODUCT LOCATOR.

Items availability is shown as BUY IT NOW or RESERVE IT.

I don't think any train company shows an order count on their web site.

I think all of these companies should put up a bunch of options and let people do the Kick-Starter like thing. That would give a good idea of what people really want. These "catalogs" are just vaporware anyway. Why not just throw a bunch of ideas out and see what sticks? Keep a running tally so people can see how projects are doing. Once the period is over, they build it or not.

As much as I hate pre-ordering, it seems to be here to stay. So at least give us more options.

my response from weaver.

"Unfortunately it is becoming more difficult to sell overruns, especially on
a higher priced item. Sorry."

if i had known there was a minimum pre-order number to be met, i would have pre-ordered.  normally, i avoid pre-ordering.

That's what Weaver told me, too. I wonder how many of us contacted Weaver since this post came out.

I also would have preordered some of them.

Our division (RMD-TCA) has annual custom runs. The last two are S-Gauge Grey Spreckels Sugar Hopper and a White Spreckels Sugar Hopper. We have many folks who buy only once the the car has been delivered to the club. This results in risk that could mean not doing another run or worse not breaking even. The next design may have something to do with something closer to home (Colorado)   No Colorado High jokes.

With a company like Weaver that, I believe, has 100% control state side of their process having a custom run should be easier to manage in terms of determining interest and adjusting to that demand. Taking advantage of technology (the Web) and allowing buyers to see goals and send messages would allow Weaver to respond as well as allow buyers to buy more to ensure that the goal is met. If the price is right and I know that by buying two an item would help ensure it's production then I would probably do that, buy one sell one and least have a car.

I have to admit that I am one of those who now wait and see rather than pre-order. I am not willing to part with any money unless I know what I am getting and when I am getting it. As production schedules have slipped and catalog items have been cancelled I stopped per-ordering entirely.

I like this idea.  I've thought about it before.  In fact, I casually suggested the same to the owner of the hobby shop I work for.  But, that was long ago, in a more robust economic time, before local industry folded up and left for good.

However......

If Weaver finds overruns of higher priced models to be more difficult to sell, that would probably be true of a mass-purchasing consortium, too.  On the other hand, if we expect Weaver to continue to offer new models, new road names....basically lay out the initial investments...to keep the hobby offerings fresh, varied, and attractive, they, Weaver, need some sort of 'Sugar Daddy(s)', perhaps, in these difficult times to keep things rolling.  Clubs, mass marketers (Like Menards?), chump-change investors, etc., need to rethink their possible role in helping folks like Weaver in continuing support of the hobby.

OK, so maybe their line of brass engines has to take a break from aggressive roll-outs, but cars like the troop series, the B&O wagontop boxcars, the TOFC's, et al, that were more costly than some,....and a tad more desirable, too!....would be sorely missed if a bedrock producer like Weaver walked away. 

Always something, eh what?

KD

What at it says to me is that not many folks are interested in this prototype.

I don't think it is a statement about the hobby, just about the appeal of a rather oddball set of cars.

Rob 

In the plastic kit hobby 5000 is a small run......and a lot of odd ball stuff sells out at that size run. If the O scale hobby can't absorb 300.....it does say something. Weaver should be thanked that they were willing to try for 300.....could not be done in plastic kit hobby. 

If Weaver was looking for 300 car minimum orders for ALL the cars planned, then maybe I'm not suprised the orders weren't there (especially for the post war railroad schemes).  

I would think that it would be a no-brainer that the Troop Cars would easily sell into the several hundreds.  The hospital and kitchen cars are the same, but I don't know if the volume would be there individually.

Built to order (BTO)/preorders I think are here to stay.  I think with BTO, however, you need to have some back and forth communication with you customers.  I think this is why Scott Mann (Sunset/3rd Rail) can get some of his projects built - sometimes a second surge of pre-orders is enough to hit minimum project numbers.

I didn't realize that Weaver was looking for pre-orders to complete this project.  had I known that I would have put in an order for two Troop Sleepers and a REA Express Car.  My thought was I could just order the cars from Weaver whenever they came into stock.

Jim

Agreed BTO is here to stay.....and there may be a learning curve for Weaver as to how to communicate this and get real feedback.....it's a process for sure.

"I don't think it is a statement about the hobby, just about the appeal of a rather oddball set of cars."

a lot of guys run military loads.  i just joined that club.  these would not be oddball for that sort of consist.

I feel that since the manufactures/importers are going more to BTO then they need to  offer a guarantee that if a pre-ordered model (loco, car, building, etc) is "incorrect" (wrong color, lettering, bad mechanism) they will make any and all corrections at their expense.

For example last year Lionel's Conrail GP35 diesels arrived without the Conrail logos and lettering on the sides of the shell.  Lionel took them back and replaced the shells.

If these companies want the buyers to order "sight unseen" then I feel that they should have to make sure that the products are not defective or incorrect.

Stuart

i think BTO implies delivery (also implying that the mfg. is pretty sure he will meet his target).

pre-ordering to hit a specific target prior to production is different.

pre-ordering to hit a specific target prior to production without publicizing that intent is lame.  no real risk to the manufacturer, but no consideration for the customer, either.

i am disappointed these cars won't be made, but i am also disappointed in Weaver for taking this approach.

Military models are a great sub category of our hobby, but that doesn't mean these cars would be good sellers on the mass market.

My point was in response to AMCDave that I wouldn't make any assumptions about the hobby overall just by the failure of a model of rather specific appeal to generate sufficient preorder interest.

This thread is all about doom and gloom. A model doesn't get enough interest and all, of a sudden the hobby is dying and Weaver is going out of business.

If every model that doesn't get sufficient preorders is a sign of a hobby in decline, then it would make sense that every model that does get preorders is the sign of a hobby on the rise, right?

I'd rather see Weaver make smart business decisions than end up like Aristo Craft.

I think it is also healthy to see that niche markets with sufficient interest can be supported... look to SMR trains as an example of a company that has tapped a market like that.

Rob

PS: the kick starter idea is a great thing to try

I was anxious for these cars, but had no clue that we are now pre-ordering rolling stock. I'm confident Weaver is acting in its own best interestt---and they should---but I wonder if there was some outreach to train guys (including dealers) there might have been a better response. 

Well, let's see now...

MTH, Lionel and 3rd Rail have all had to cancel items at one time or another.

And yet the hobby survives.

Rusty

Rob,

I don't see the thread as doom and gloom thread, aside from a single post about a rumor the poster had heard.

I think that many of us are genuinely surprised that the troop cars were cancelled.  I guess that many of us got so use to buying cars at a LHS or from Weaver stock, that we didn't have a concern about not pre-ordering the cars.

I hope that Weaver does again consider a second run of these cars as I'm confident that the interest exists for the Troop Sleepers and maybe the Kitchen/Hospital cars.  I would like to see these made even if the post war car aren't.

Jim

JD,