Weekend Tinplate photos 📸 and videos 📽 4/2/20!

Well, since there is quite a discussion over on the Buy/Make Anything Cool Lately about a Flyer Passenger Set from 1939 I thought I'd post a picture of the 1938 precursor to that set - American Flyer Set #1 from 1938

Catalog Cut

...and the train set

American Flyer 4696 (MTH 11-1020-1)

Here is an uncataloged Minne-Ha-Ha freight set from 1935

I bought the set approximately 25 years ago and found artwork showing it as Set 7377 in the Collector magazine and discovered that I was missing the signals and coal loader, which I added later.

NWL

I saw this on the ives section on $bay,,,i thought it was just unpainted silver all over,,,i got it and wow,,,,brass frame,,,i have a spare motor to install,,one headlight is wired,,,,,no markings anywhere,,,i 1st thought before I got it was to have it painted black,,,but I really like it ,I would say its a pilot or 1 of a kind,,,,,anybody have any thoughts,,,,,its one of my fav standard loco (just sayin mth) 

Marklin TWE 12930 Autorail. From the 1930's. this is the electric version (also came in clockwork). There were multiple versions of this same basic body style, including multi-section articulated types. Also seen in one of the photos is another favorite streamliner, this one from Hoge. I had the Hoge out trying to remember why it didn't run very well (needs work).

I just cleaned one of the French LR level crossing made around 1955 with two electro magnets which close the guards when the train arrives. Typical model from France they have now disappeared, the two HP Citroen cars are Dinky Toys from the same time period.

Have a nice weekend and take care of You,   Daniel

A recent buy is this Märklin 0 gauge bridge; the track does not have a third rail, so it was made for clockwork or live steam trains.

I updated my e-book on tinplate accessories with this; the most recent version can be seen and downloaded here: http://sncf231e.nl/tin-stuff-from-fred/

Regards

Fred

PS: This is my last post on the forum; I am moving on and will not read or write on the forum anymore (removing membership seems not possible, but it will ultimately expire I assume). Have fun with your tinplate and stay healthy!

Thanks for all of the posts over the years, Fred. I learned a lot about European toy trains and accessories, a world I knew/know little of.

PD

Fred, I am sorry to see you leave. Your ability to share the hobby with people around the world has been amazing!

Thank you,

Miketg

terry hudon posted:

I saw this on the ives section on $bay,,,i thought it was just unpainted silver all over,,,i got it and wow,,,,brass frame,,,i have a spare motor to install,,one headlight is wired,,,,,no markings anywhere,,,i 1st thought before I got it was to have it painted black,,,but I really like it ,I would say its a pilot or 1 of a kind,,,,,anybody have any thoughts,,,,,its one of my fav standard loco (just sayin mth) 

Hey Terry

I was so tempted to pick this one up due to the unpainted nature of it. Several folks made this repro over the years. Might have been an early Jim Cohen but probably a Williams (the same Stout Auction that this originally came from had several of these locos in different states of completion, some without motors, some painted). My plan was to try a buff this up and keep it all varnished bare metal. Pride Lines also made the loco (and then MTH later, most likely not this loco).

Jim

sncf231e posted:

 

 

PS: This is my last post on the forum; I am moving on and will not read or write on the forum anymore (removing membership seems not possible, but it will ultimately expire I assume). Have fun with your tinplate and stay healthy!

Fred, sorry to hear this.  I've enjoyed your contributions to the forum (and your ebook).  Good luck to you.

New in the collection.

Schuhmann car

Schuhmann loco

Bassett-Lowke LNER coach

Brimtoy big signal box

And arrived today, some parts which need a lot of work

Arne

Fred, thank you for all the tinplate education you have shared. 

I have always enjoyed your videos and photos.

sad to see you sign off.

 Be well, be safe, all my best to you and family.

Leroof (Pierre)

Daniel and Arne, as always thank you for sharing your collections and knowledge.

it is most supportative to me at this current time.

leroof

Thanks Pierre, I will continue.  I am sad to see Fred leaving but I respect his choice. He has always been extremely informative in his posts and always ready to share is knowledge in train collecting.

Bee safe Fred and I hope to meet you elsewhere again. Take care, Daniel

Jim Waterman posted:

terry hudon posted:

I saw this on the ives section on $bay,,,i thought it was just unpainted silver all over,,,i got it and wow,,,,brass frame,,,i have a spare motor to install,,one headlight is wired,,,,,no markings anywhere,,,i 1st thought before I got it was to have it painted black,,,but I really like it ,I would say its a pilot or 1 of a kind,,,,,anybody have any thoughts,,,,,its one of my fav standard loco (just sayin mth) 

Hey Terry

I was so tempted to pick this one up due to the unpainted nature of it. Several folks made this repro over the years. Might have been an early Jim Cohen but probably a Williams (the same Stout Auction that this originally came from had several of these locos in different states of completion, some without motors, some painted). My plan was to try a buff this up and keep it all varnished bare metal. Pride Lines also made the loco (and then MTH later, most likely not this loco).

 

Jim

thanks jim,,,,its one of my top 5 electrics,love electrics with rods,,,i wish mth would have made them in other colores, the transition cars that go with this,,,franks roundhouse did sets in the late 80's with 385 in different colors,,,ie pink,blue,red with black,,,,which I all the car colors,,,,,,missing York and seeing sgma's

FRED: THANK YOU for all your incredible contributions to this forum! Your knowledge, collection and layout are beyond comparison. You WILL be missed! Stay healthy and Godspeed my friend!  

Fred:  Thank you for all the information on French trains that you posted.  Your most recent add to my knowledge was on my new French Hornby set just a short while ago.  I am sorry you are leaving and will miss your knowledge.  Best wishes.  Will hunt you up on your website. Stay healthy. 

Respectfully Don McErlean

Arne - your posts are marvelous, You give me a glimpse of trains that I otherwise would never see.  Thank you and thanks as well for prior data on Dressler, Distler, KB etc....Don McErlean

Frenchtrains...I will now look to you to help with my research on French trains.  Thanks  Don McErlean

OK guys here is my contribution...note not nearly as rare or valuable as some already pictured, but this one was real fun and it only cost me (including engine, tender, 4 passenger cars, track and key) $11.50  including shipping !!  Even better, I discovered  when I went to operate, that the key can wind quite a few of my other Marx clockwork trains so that is a real bargain. 

Here is the full (with only 2 coaches) train.  The best thing about operating this was that the first time I wound it up and put it on the track it stopped and went, hesitating, stopping and barely making 3/4 of the way around my layout before giving up.  Now...the miracle of lubrication.  A few drops of Labelle gear oil on the gear train and OFF SHE WENT.  No hesitation and nearly 3 times around the full layout pulling her coaches...what a hoot!

Here is a close up of the loco.  She was made between 1950 and 1958 but the early style coaches were only made up until 1953 but their couplers date them to about 1950 so I suspect that 1950 is the time period of this train.Sheet metal boiler and cab, no drive rods , and plastic boiler front with cast on marker lights.  No engine number on the loco anywhere.  Pretty basic engine.  Designed to look like a 2-4-2 but the front and rear trucks are really just fakes represented by embossing on the sheet metal sides. 

Here are the reasons I really wanted this set.  I have any number of Bogota and Montclair coaches in the 558 lithographed versions and in fact this buy came with 2 of the 558 type coaches as well as those pictured.  However, these are an earlier configuration and  have the windows cut out,and the lithography is much simpler.  The have the names "Bogota" and "Montclair" in the large outlined square under the windows.  They are (or were)  a cherry red, although these examples are somewhat faded. Using the frame (type 2, square ends) and couplers (tab and slot, twisted tab)  which date  from prewar to NLT 1950, in combination with the dates of production for the type 51 loco (1950-58) , I suspect the set dates to about 1950.  However as always dating Marx trains is an adventure in itself  By the way, unlike the newer lithographed coaches these are numbered 245 (Bogota) and 246 (Montclair) on the car.

Ok that's it for me...two teenagers and threatening mass destruction if I don't feed them!

Have a great weekend and stay healthy

Don McErlean

Bridging the gap between tinplate and scale.

MikeH posted:

American Flyer 4696 (MTH 11-1020-1)

I like the Flyer with the side pipes, and the 381e, nice layout.

Don McErlean posted:

 

OK guys here is my contribution...note not nearly as rare or valuable as some already pictured, but this one was real fun and it only cost me (including engine, tender, 4 passenger cars, track and key) $11.50  including shipping !!  Even better, I discovered  when I went to operate, that the key can wind quite a few of my other Marx clockwork trains so that is a real bargain. 

Here is the full (with only 2 coaches) train.  The best thing about operating this was that the first time I wound it up and put it on the track it stopped and went, hesitating, stopping and barely making 3/4 of the way around my layout before giving up.  Now...the miracle of lubrication.  A few drops of Labelle gear oil on the gear train and OFF SHE WENT.  No hesitation and nearly 3 times around the full layout pulling her coaches...what a hoot!

Here is a close up of the loco.  She was made between 1950 and 1958 but the early style coaches were only made up until 1953 but their couplers date them to about 1950 so I suspect that 1950 is the time period of this train.Sheet metal boiler and cab, no drive rods , and plastic boiler front with cast on marker lights.  No engine number on the loco anywhere.  Pretty basic engine.  Designed to look like a 2-4-2 but the front and rear trucks are really just fakes represented by embossing on the sheet metal sides. 

Here are the reasons I really wanted this set.  I have any number of Bogota and Montclair coaches in the 558 lithographed versions and in fact this buy came with 2 of the 558 type coaches as well as those pictured.  However, these are an earlier configuration and  have the windows cut out,and the lithography is much simpler.  The have the names "Bogota" and "Montclair" in the large outlined square under the windows.  They are (or were)  a cherry red, although these examples are somewhat faded. Using the frame (type 2, square ends) and couplers (tab and slot, twisted tab)  which date  from prewar to NLT 1950, in combination with the dates of production for the type 51 loco (1950-58) , I suspect the set dates to about 1950.  However as always dating Marx trains is an adventure in itself  By the way, unlike the newer lithographed coaches these are numbered 245 (Bogota) and 246 (Montclair) on the car.

 

 

Ok that's it for me...two teenagers and threatening mass destruction if I don't feed them!

Have a great weekend and stay healthy

Don McErlean

Don, I believe that the locomotive and cars weren't originally part of the same set.  According to Walt Hiteshaw's CD, the early passenger cars with the open windows would date from 1938 at the latest, while the locomotive and tender are much later production.  The other two passenger cars (I was watching that auction) date from 1946-1952, so I don't believe they would have come with the locomotive, either... although it m-i-g-h-t be possible.

I know Greenberg's claims that the 591 (they use the electric number, I prefer 533 for windup) dates from 1950 to 1958, but I haven't yet found any evidence that they existed before 1953.  Your version has a riser gear motor, as evidenced by the keyhole on the left side of the locomotive and plated (as opposed to black) motor sideplates.  In addition, it also has the 17 spoke die-cast drivers.  Both the riser gear motor and die-cast drivers went in production around 1953 (and lasted until 1975).  Now, in addition, the tender is also interesting.  Again, according to Hiteshaw, the 551 formed top tender lettered for NYC dates from 1956 to 1969.  The locomotive and tender could be an original pair, which would date them from 1956 (first year for the tender) to 1958 (last year for the locomotive).  

Regardless, you got a bargain!  Those early passenger cars aren't as common as the later models, and the 533 w/ riser gear motor and die-cast drivers is a good runner.  I like the 533, they actually came in quite a few variations... including the rare two-speed windup model!  I've got quite a few 533's, and just picked up a couple more recently... one that is identical to yours, and another that has a sparking ratchet motor.

I am very late to the thread because I have nthing new to show off this week ...

But even worse than that I am a little bit "gutted" to read that Fred is moving on ...

Pardon me if I get a little effusive here but ..

@sncf231e , Fred , you are one of my personal "heroes" in the train collecting world and whie respecting your decision entirely , just know that you have inspired and educated me so much in the short time we crossed paths here, I thank you for all your interactions here and elsewhere on the web. This place will surely be a little less with your leaving ... I will def keep an eye on your site as it AND you are an incredible resource .

Travel safe my friend!

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

I just cleaned one of the French LR level crossing made around 1955 with two electro magnets which close the guards when the train arrives. Typical model from France they have now disappeared, the two HP Citroen cars are Dinky Toys from the same time period.

Have a nice weekend and take care of You,   Daniel

What an amazing coincidence Daniel.  I just saw a similar JEP 6363 for sale on the Bay.  Glad you've already got one!

James:  Thank you for the new data   I admit I used the term “set” more casually than normal as I also could not find any evidence that these came packed as a set. I agree I thought the open window coaches were pre war only but my Greenberg reference disagrees and says they came back post war so that is confusing. The twisted tab couplers were made (again according to the Greenberg reference) to 1951.  Your data on the engine is very helpful I did not know any of those details on the drive system thanks I love being able to date these things.  Well this forum again shows its real value in putting folks together to pool knowledge. Thanks for posting your information. 

Keep healthy and have a great weekend 

Don McErlean 

Don, I highly recommend getting the Hiteshaw CD "The DEFINITIVE Guide to Marx Trains Six-Inch Tin & Joy Line"...  it truly lives up to the title!  I believe it to be a far more thorough treatment of the subject than Greenbergs.  That isn't meant to diminish the Greenberg guides; it's just that I believe Walt had far more resources and information available to him when he was doing his research, and it was certainly a labor of love of Marx tinplate on his part.  

Marx apparently did make some open window cars postwar, but the litho is different.  Your open window cars are the prewar versions.  I love the lithography on those!

On a personal note, I've done a fair amount of research on Marx mechanical locomotives, doing my best to use primary information from the appropriate time frame for reference.  I know there is much more to discover about them, but that is part of the fun.  To date, the only book on Marx that I've written is "The Marx Mechanical Commodore Vanderbilt, 1935-1948".  I've done the same type of research on most of the other Marx mechanicals, but not to the level that I feel comfortable putting the results in print.  Maybe I'll be able to do it someday.  The research includes windup motor types, plus drive wheel types (more variations than you might think).  I truly enjoy looking at a Marx mechanical, and analyzing those types of details to give a more complete picture of when it might have been made.  

Keep your eye out for more great bargains like that!  There are a lot of variations to collect.  Remember the Marx slogan: "One of the many Marx toys, have you all of them?"

James - Where does one find a copy of the Hiteshaw CD?

PD

EDIT :: Found it here:

http://www.toyandtrainguides.com/

O Gauge Guy posted:

What an amazing coincidence Daniel.  I just saw a similar JEP 6363 for sale on the Bay.  Glad you've already got one!

Nice condition but the little guard house is missing....

Frenchtrains - I agree - this is what it should look like.

Wind Up Guy : The first thing I want to say is thank you for continuing to provide information.  I am a retired research engineer (my picture is in the dictionary next to the word "nerd" !) and I really just love to dig into the historical background of these toys and trains.  I checked my Hiteshew CD and it is not the same one as yours...mine is titled "Six-Inch Tin and Joy Line" so I am heading to his web site to see if I can get the one you referenced.  I noted that you referenced that you had written a book on the Marx mechanical CV loco's...how can I obtain a copy?  Is it a download from a net site or listed on Amazon?  Let me know as I would certainly like to have a copy.

I am fascinated by the idea that there are 2 (or more after all this is Marx!) versions of the open window coaches and better yet, mine is the pre-war version.  G'berg makes no mention of this at all ... that is sort of cool. 

Thanks wind up Guy...and if there is anyway you can send me the data on how to get your book please do so.

Respectfully

Don McErlean

James:  My CD (different title) has a web site on it...www.toyandtrainguides.com

Don

Don McErlean posted:

Wind Up Guy : The first thing I want to say is thank you for continuing to provide information.  I am a retired research engineer (my picture is in the dictionary next to the word "nerd" !) and I really just love to dig into the historical background of these toys and trains.  I checked my Hiteshew CD and it is not the same one as yours...mine is titled "Six-Inch Tin and Joy Line" so I am heading to his web site to see if I can get the one you referenced.  I noted that you referenced that you had written a book on the Marx mechanical CV loco's...how can I obtain a copy?  Is it a download from a net site or listed on Amazon?  Let me know as I would certainly like to have a copy.

I am fascinated by the idea that there are 2 (or more after all this is Marx!) versions of the open window coaches and better yet, mine is the pre-war version.  G'berg makes no mention of this at all ... that is sort of cool. 

Thanks wind up Guy...and if there is anyway you can send me the data on how to get your book please do so.

Respectfully

Don McErlean

Don, I'm sure we have the same CD.  Mine also says "Six-Inch Tin & Joy Line" on it.  I think that is just a shortened version of the official name.  Walt does have different CD's, but there is only the one about 6" tin.  The website names can be a bit confusing; there is a site that says "MarxTin" at the top, and has a link to the CD's, but I think all the pages are part of his toyandtrainguides.com website.  

My little Marx CV book is available on Amazon, just search for the title and it should pop up.

If you have the CD, click on the "Car Type" button on the right.  It will bring up a new set of buttons, click on "Passenger Cars".  It will bring up pictures of passenger cars grouped by series (Joy Line, Series 1 & 2, etc.)  I don't know that I properly identified your newer and older passenger cars - it's hard to see the exact details in the pictures - but you should be able to determine exactly what you have in person.  However, if you look under "Series 1 & 2", I think your pre-war cars would be in either row 4 or 5.  For an example of post-war open window cars, take a look at "4 Wheel - Square End Frame - Plastic Knuckle Couplers".  There are lighted and unlighted versions in there, and it looks like there are some other open window passenger cars in other sections.  You can narrow down the year on your other two passenger cars as well.  

By the way, my email is in my profile if you ever want to chat about Marx windup locomotives.  

FRENCHTRAINS posted:

O Gauge Guy posted:

What an amazing coincidence Daniel.  I just saw a similar JEP 6363 for sale on the Bay.  Glad you've already got one!

Nice condition but the little guard house is missing....

The guard house is included - just not assembled.  Actually this one for sale appears to be unused in the original wrapping.

my attempt at a "coal" or in this case a ballast train,,,,love the #38 runs like silk (thanks bob hanon)

Great looking tinplate everyone 

found this upstairs packed away, forgot I had it. I had a MTH gunplay r2r set that I bought about 12 years ago but had to sell a couple years ago.  Guess they didn't get everything.

Getting back into the hobby again , both Standard & O Gauge tillage.

terry hudon posted:

my attempt at a "coal" or in this case a ballast train,,,,love the #38 runs like silk (thanks bob hanon)

I like your layout.  It appears that you've managed to combine standard and O gauge into a space that's similar in size and shape to mine.  Combining both is something I'm struggling with - not really happy with my results so far.  

Do you happen to have a copy of your plan that you could post?  Even a hand-drawn overview would be helpful.  I'm especially interested in how you reach everything.  

Thanks.