What American Freedom Train Cars Have Been Manufactured?

Having been "involved" with the real American Freedom Train (specifically #4449), I must admit that I was never interested in owning either the MTH Premier AFT 4449 model, nor any of the K-Line AFT passenger cars. That said, I thought I remember seeing K-Line "shorter than scale" AFT cars, maybe 15"? Short of constantly searching eBay, I sure wouldn't know how one would locate such AFT cars today.

MTH did some RailKing Madison-style AFT passenger cars -- check out 30-69152, 30-69153, and 30-69154 on MTH's web site -- that would look nice behind the RK 4449.  And if you check the "Find It Locally" tab, they are supposedly available at both Patrick's Trains in Wheeling and Valley Farm Market in Weedville, PA  (I'd call to make sure this info is up to date before doing any driving).  These cars can do O-31 curves according to the features listing.  As far as I know, no one other than K-Line (so far) has done display-type cars (I couldn't find any other than the scale cars on the Legacy K-Line site).

MTH also did a set about 15 years ago: 30-4071-0 and 30-6162.

Andy

Keep an eye out for cars that aren't even close to what the Freedom train hauled. For example, I've seen a AFT-marked dome car. I'm sure Ross Rowland would have liked to have had a dome on the train for the press, but there never was one (nor any plans for one that I'm aware of)...

I have both the MTH GS4 and the T1 plus all 18 Kline cars. I am happy with it. Also have the water tender that did not exist. But looks nice in the set.  Lionel is making scale AFT cars. Not out yet.

Hot Water, Your experience is remarkable.  I didn't know you were involved with the 4449.

Andy, Yes the Madison's would be acceptable.  Thank you for the tip!!

Lee, Yes I know there are scads of cars out there that don't even come close to resembling the prototype.  I don't get too nit picky, but yes a vista dome is quite different.

Thom, I've seen your American Freedom Train on the Pittsburgh Independent Hi Raiders layout.  That is most impressive indeed!!  I certainly don't have space though that would be the ultimate!  

Thank you everyone so far!!!

Mark Boyce posted:

Hot Water, Your experience is remarkable.  I didn't know you were involved with the 4449.

 

Yes, and still am "involved". We operated a two day excursion, the weekend of June 24 & 25, from Portland, OR to Bend, OR and return. There is a pretty cool video of us departing Portland Union Station, posted over on the Real Trains Forum (turn your volume up). 

Freedomtrain.org has a wealth of information about the prototype and models.

Here is the K-Line scale AFT.  This has the most accurate AFT cars, but the engine is semi-scale.  If you want to know what the cars should look like, go here.

Here are links to all the AFT models manufactured (all scales).

The generic Railking cars don't look much like the the AFT at all.  Some of the 70' MTH Premier cars are reasonably close to the prototype passenger cars, but MTH did not make any display cars.  They operate on O-42 track.  The dome car and observation car are fantasy.

Lionel is releasing a scale AFT T-1 and GS-4 and an assortment of AFT cars.

Todd Schannuth, the webmaster shares his collection on Freedomtrain.org

"The first two shelves hold a Lionel O Scale 1947-1949 Freedom Train. The third shelf holds an MTH American Freedom Train T-1 locomotive and a custom auxiliary tender made from the tender off a Lionel 4-8-2 Mohawk, followed by the first four cars of K-Line's 2001-2002 American Freedom Train model. The fourth shelf holds a brass O scale 3rd Rail AFT GS-4 4449, followed by an AFT aux tender from MTH, a Lionel BN Bicentennial U28C, and three more cars from K-Line. The fifth and sixth shelves hold an antique brass Max Gray T&P 2-10-4 custom decorated for the AFT, followed by the last 11 of K-Line's 19 AFT cars. Painting the Max Gray model was an eight-year ordeal but, as of 2012, it's all finally on display."

Bob

Check the most recent posts at this link to see the AFT operating on the G&O garden railroad.  It is a great train to own and operate.

https://ogrforum.com/.../the-gandamp-o-story

NH Joe

FYI, Todd Schannuth is the man when it comes to the Freedom Train. He knows all the people involved and the history of it. I've swapped lots of emails with him over the years and got to meet him for the 40th anniversary reunion. Really good guy and the only person I would ask questions of about the train other than Doyle and/or Ross...

In fact, Todd took this shot at the reunion while we all listened to Ross Rowland. I'm close to the camera, about 3-4 rows from the front at the end facing the camera, wearing a dark green polo shirt and a grey cap (to the immediate left of the wheelchair about mid-frame)...

I finally got to meet and thank Ross Rowland for all his work, and get my copy of "All Aboard America" signed by Ross and Doyle!

Bob, that is a nice collection!

MTH also made them in G scale if anyone is interested.

I got the engine and still haven't got the cars!

http://mthtrains.com/prod-sear...ield_roadname%3A4102

it looks like the cars are made the same way in G scale too. They are regular passenger cars that is.

It's OK with me. It was my go to train outside for the Fourth of July!

( I just used the Amtrak and SF cars that I have with it ).

Bob,

Well, Freedomtrain.org is a good source of information.  Looks like K-line was the best bet.  The Madison cars are nice, but not nearly authentic.

Bob, Joe, and Joe,

The G scale are very nice for those who have the room!  While I don't have room, I would be happy if my topic reaches someone who does have the room and is interested in G scale.  The MTH G scale is sure nice.

Lee, That looks like a good turnout for 40-year anniversary!  40 years!!!  That means from my opening statement that it has been 41 years since!!

Again, thank you everyone for your input!!!

Bob, thanks for the link to FreedomTrain.org. I didn't know this site existed - lots of interesting info! In addition to the AFT, it also covers the 1974 Preamble Express and the 1947 Freedom Train.

While exploring it, I came across a sister site, also by Todd Schannuth, called ThemeTrains.com, which has lots more interesting info on the following:

1926 Cardinal's Train

1936 Rexall Train

1939 Canadian Royal Train

1947 GM Train of Tomorrow

1949 Merci Train

1949 New York State Freedom Train

1969 Golden Spike Centennial Limited

1971 Auto-Train

1977 Chessie Steam Special

1978 Canadian Discovery Train

1981 Chessie Safety Express

-Aric

Aric,

Thank you for the ThemeTrains.com link!  I'm going to have to look that over a lot more.  As I get older, my interest in passenger trains grows!!

Mark,

The K-Line cars require O-42 curves.  If your layout can handle them, you may want to look for just the AFT 5-pack.  It would give you a more prototypical look, having a representative sampling of the cars, without having the engine chasing the observation car.

Andy

Andy,

I can handle 042!!  And that's all!  :-)

Yes I like the prototypical cars better than the short ones that aren't even close.  That 5 pack would certainly give the true flavor of the prototypical train in a small space.  Call it 'selective compression'.  LOL

You always give good practical advice!  I hope to see you next Saturday at Monroeville!  I already have plans to see somethings Nick and Keith are bringing.  :-)

Andy is right, the 5 pack is an excellent choice if you can find it.  The 5 pack is made up of both showcase cars, 2 of 10 display cars, and the obs. You can find these or other cars separately. 

Be aware; once you get one you will want them all.

There is also an add on car made by K-Line for the Museum of American Freedom Trains. Numbered MAFT-111,  It covered the years 1976-1996. The K-Line item number is K4601-30111. I was lucky enough to find one back when new for $100. I have seen them sell for $300-$350 when they come up.

http://www.freedomtrain.org/am...auge-maft111-car.htm

RRDOC posted:

Todd Schannuth, the webmaster shares his collection below on Freedomtrain.org

"The first two shelves hold a Lionel O Scale 1947-1949 Freedom Train. The third shelf holds an MTH American Freedom Train T-1 locomotive and a custom auxiliary tender made from the tender off a Lionel 4-8-2 Mohawk, followed by the first four cars of K-Line's 2001-2002 American Freedom Train model. The fourth shelf holds a brass O scale 3rd Rail AFT GS-4 4449, followed by an AFT aux tender from MTH, a Lionel BN Bicentennial U28C, and three more cars from K-Line. The fifth and sixth shelves hold an antique brass Max Gray T&P 2-10-4 custom decorated for the AFT, followed by the last 11 of K-Line's 19 AFT cars. Painting the Max Gray model was an eight-year ordeal but, as of 2012, it's all finally on display."

Bob

A simply fantastic display!

lehigh310 posted:

Bob, thanks for the link to FreedomTrain.org. I didn't know this site existed - lots of interesting info! In addition to the AFT, it also covers the 1974 Preamble Express and the 1947 Freedom Train.

While exploring it, I came across a sister site, also by Todd Schannuth, called ThemeTrains.com, which has lots more interesting info on the following:

1926 Cardinal's Train 

-Aric

There is a book on the Cardinals train, https://www.shore-line.org/Special.lasso 

The Theme Trains website shows the cars in what appears to be red paint with gold lettering, unlike the painting below.

 "Dispatch Number Seven is A Transportation Miracle, a 100-page publication covering the transportation side of the 28th International Eucharistic Congress that was held in Chicago on June 20-24, 1926. There has never been anything like the 28th International Eucharistic Congress. Steam railroads from across the U.S. and Canada carried 600,000 people to Chicago, and more than 1 million people participated in the events.

Enhancing the value of this publication, acclaimed railroad artist Mitch Markovitz has created six original colorful pieces of artwork portraying the North Shore Line’s “Cardinals’ Special.”

Dispatch Number Seven (softbound version) is available from Shore Line"

I'm sure hoping Lionel comes through and makes them all. I have both locos already and the 13 cars catalogued on order. Hopefully the rest will be made available. 

Surefire posted:

I'm sure hoping Lionel comes through and makes them all. I have both locos already and the 13 cars catalogued on order. Hopefully the rest will be made available. 

The OP requested info on available AFT trains, although the K-Line models are the only real choice.  All others are just standard passenger sets painted in AFT colors.

No telling when the Lionel cars will arrive.  My concern is they will come all at once - may have to sell the house.

No telling when the Lionel cars will arrive.  My concern is they will come all at once - may have to sell the house.
Ron

Yeah! I am worried about that too! and the 3rd Rail 2-10-4 as well!

Well I have been overwhelmed by the interest in this question.  Thank you again, all who have responded; and a 'Like' is a good response!! 

Ron, I have thought exactly what you are warning me about!  So I take your warning to heart!    I have had trains since I bought my first cheap Tyco HO set when I was about 12.  I never had a lot of money to buy many, and sold trains to change scales and the last time to help our daughters with tuition.  I have been buying O gauge engines and cars for a while, and have more than I can use in a small house.  I am now to the point that If I buy something, I sell something I like less because I don't like to have trains stored in boxes in closets and maybe even forget I have them.  That said, I have never been a collector, just sitting trains on a shelf.  I rotate into operation what I have and have the ones that are not being operated at the time sitting out where I can see them.  

All that said, I have never purchased any patriotic themed trains.  For those of us who remember the Nation's Bicentennial well, we know we saw red white and blue on all kinds of things, including diesel engines and cabooses.  While it was a good thing the railroads did, I can't recall any that appealed to me.  Now the American Freedom Train was different.  That I was glad I saw and took the tour through the open cars.  Yes, I took a good look at the 4449 also.  So, there was born the idea that I would like to run the AFT at patriotic holidays.  Also, I have seen Thom "Doc"s ATF with all the cars, and it is an impressive site!  Thank you Thom for bringing it out at times.

So, maybe I will become a collector.  First, the 4449, then some cars, then some more cars; I won't be able to buy the to be produced Lionel cars in one fell swoop.  That is why I asked about cars that were made in the past.  I knew about the K-Line cars, and thought they may be the cream of the crop, but didn't know until all of you contributed.

I was wrong, the MTH 4449 is scheduled for delivery tomorrow, not yesterday as I stated above.  An audio book about Steve McQueen was what I received yesterday.  LOL

I'll be looking at those other Theme Trains here in the future.  Thank you again!

I think K-line made the first complete set of cars. Never could understand why they made a shorty 4449 engine at almost the same time they were coming out with scale steam engines. I took this shot in Oakland, California when the train came to the Bay Area. Maybe that's Hot Water standing on the engine. I air brushed this Lionel engine way back when for a good friend. Still have another set of Walthers decals to do another engine someday for myself. Don

Great Photo Scale Rail!!  Now I need to dig into the thirteen 144-slide carousels to see if I can find my photos of the 4449 and train.  I keep saying I'm going to get my son-in-law to digitize some of them. 

You did a very nice job on the diesel too!

I have a Lionel HO scale AFT 4449, which I bought from a hobby shop in Johnson City, TN about 1981 or so (ironically, I later that day saw North American Rayon 0-6-0 #1 running as we headed back to my grandmother's house, so it was a doubly great day). I probably ran it maybe a couple of feet ever. It's on a bookshelf in the layout room, next to my childhood Lionel 0-4-0 (my first running model locomotive ever).

I was lucky enough to ride behind 4449 painted again in AFT red-white-blue in 2002, in Portland. I stood aside the tracks as Doyle rolled by at the throttle, exactly as I did at the SCL platform at Tallahassee, Florida in November of 1976 (the depot is still there, but the track 4449 came down has been moved and the entire display site is now a road, unfortunately). You can indeed go home again, sometimes!

I also have several AFT items, including the program my parents got for me in 1976 when we saw the train. Todd used several on his Freedom Train website if you go through it. My AFT thimble is the only one I've ever even heard of.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

No telling when the Lionel cars will arrive.  My concern is they will come all at once - may have to sell the house.
Ron

Yeah! I am worried about that too! and the 3rd Rail 2-10-4 as well!

That makes 3 of us!

Nick

machinist posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

No telling when the Lionel cars will arrive.  My concern is they will come all at once - may have to sell the house.
Ron

Yeah! I am worried about that too! and the 3rd Rail 2-10-4 as well!

That makes 3 of us!

Nick

Nick,

I hope you are packing away money in a big savings account!  Seems to me you and I were talking about this very problem last time I saw you at Monroeville.  

Lee, those HO AFT engines cost me $29 each if I bought a case of them. They went like hot cakes when I was a part time dealer. 

Those are neat, Lee.  1975.  I was in college then, so I didn't spend any money on trains, though I had HO then.

I purchased 12 K-line American Freedom train display cars at a train show this weekend at a bargain price, so now I have begun the long journey to complete the train.   I have reviewed the many AFT threads on the forum including the helpful post by CAPPILOT listing all the cars, and which were made by K-line, MTH, and Lionel.

I recall reading a thread last year where the OP showed his work scratch building the trailers that rode on the 3 Flat cars.   I've searched every way I can and I have not been able to find it.   Does anyone have a link to that thread or the screen name of the OP?

Bob

FYI: Currently there are five AFT cars not available from one of the manufacturers: the three 85' flats, the 80' tool car, and the 72' "Bunk Car"/power car #200.  The remaining 21 cars can be found.

Atlas O's 89' flats will work for the AFT flats and a GGD HW combine for the tool car*.  Not sure what to use for #200.

Good luck in your hunt.

*The tool car was a baggage/dorm car with most of the windows boarded over.  Might be easier to just use a baggage car although I know of no O scale HW baggage car long enough.

I am the person who is making models of the wagons.  To find the thread search for "freedom wagons" and it will come right up.

I bought one of the MTH 5 car AFT decorated sets for my grandson last year and to my surprise the baggage was numbered 200.  I am in the process of modifying this car with a generator installation and it will serve on my Freedom train.   Still planning for the tool car and the two head end storage cars (33/34) to make my consist complete.

Rolland

This one? 

https://ogrforum.com/...train-flatcars-with-wagons

Bobby -  thanks for the link.  My mistake was to search for "Trailers"; should have used "Wagons".

The link didn't work because the last word was dropped.  Fixed below:

https://ogrforum.com/...flatcars-with-wagons

Rolland - Thanks for sharing your excellent work.

Bob Glorioso

AFT for sale in this post

https://ogrforum.com/...t-being-taken-down-6

Did Lionel make the 1947 FT using PRR type passenger heavyweights, and a PA?

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Did Lionel make the 1947 FT using PRR type passenger heavyweights, and a PA?

Since the FT and AFT are different trains/eras, you may want to start a new topic for the FT to ask your question.

My set is in storage, but Lionel did a great job with the PA with even the correct horn.  The cars are standard Lionel HW cars, with no windows in the three display cars.  The biggest visual error for me is the real display cars were P70 coaches with 4-wheel trucks, but Lionel used their 6-wheel trucks.  

CAPPilot posted:

Atlas O's 89' flats will work for the AFT flats and a GGD HW combine for the tool car*.  Not sure what to use for #200.

Another option that Lionel could do for the tool car and #200 is produce a 2-pack with their HW baggage car (would be short) and reissue their AFT #111 power car with the number #200.  Not perfect, but would fill out the train.

Marty R posted:

AFT for sale in this post

https://ogrforum.com/...t-being-taken-down-6

That is a nice looking set, but it is just their standard 15" generic passenger car set.  MTH also did a more scale length "AFT" set using their standard 18" premier passenger set.  I run the premier set at shows and it gets a lot of attention, although I tell folks it is not representative of the real AFT.

Neither of those sets capture the true meaning of the AFT with the two Showcase Cars and 10 Display Cars.  Only K-Line and now Lionel are doing a nearly correct AFT.