What Order Do The Cars Go In ?

Richie C. posted:

In a line of passenger cars, baggage, sleepers, dining and observation cars, was there a preferred sequence as to what order they were lined up in ?

Yes. Here are some generalizations:

1) Front of train would be the express cars,Railway post office car, mail storage cars, baggage cars.

2) Second class passenger equipment, i.e. "coach class", coaches.

3) Dining car. The dining car generally separates the "coach class" from the first class, i.e. sleeping cars.

4) Sleeping cars, lounge car, with observation car on the rear end.

I just purchased a set of aluminum cars to go with my BTO Lionel Legacy/BT F3 AA Santa FE and want to line them up behind the engine in the "correct" order that the railroad companies might have actually used. 

During the late '60's I road the SCL Silver Star numerous times between Jacksonville, FL (home) and Raleigh, NC (college). Most always the coachs and sleepers were separated by the diner and the club car. I can't recall there ever being an observation car, just a coach. If I recall correctly the sleepers were more often in front of the diner and club car, with the coaches behind. It was a 12 hour trip that usually occurred during night hours. On a few occasions we picked up a few cars in Columbia, SC.

Also, usually two or three early E A-units were arranged "elephant style". 

Disclaimer: that was a long time ago and my memory could be misleading me now.

TM Terry posted:

During the late '60's I road the SCL Silver Star numerous times between Jacksonville, FL (home) and Raleigh, NC...If I recall correctly the sleepers were more often in front of the diner and club car, with the coaches behind...

And when the train went the other direction, the the sleepers would be on the rear, behind the diner and club car.

They don't always turn the trains at the end of a run.

Thanks guys.

I have baggage, coach, Vista Dome, dining, sleeper and observation cars and it sounds like that would be the order to put them in behind the loco.

I know the observation car normally comes last if that helps.

On some dome trains, the dome car was before the observation car.

 I rode the Amtrak California Zephyr.  The train had a baggage car, sleepers, diner, lounge car, and coaches.

Let,s see...   Any passenger train I've worked is very similar to what HW described.

Keep in mind ...  baggage needed to be unloaded at the station platform. Having  it near the head-end  made it so much easier spotting.... next the coaches.... The working Conductor (not the sleeping car Conductor) would be responsible for what we call (shorts),  someone getting off the train at a local station or flag stop before the end of the run.... Again much easier to spot at the station platform if near the head end. The working Conductor was also responsible  for the operation of the train... orders. etc.  He would set up his office in a coach. His run may have been around 2 to 3 hundred miles.... The sleeping car Conductor was responsible for his passengers (sleeping car, diner)  but not the operation of the train and his run would be quite longer... maybe a 1000 miles or longer.  Both  Conductors worked   together and it was not that uncommon for a second spot at a station.

And as usual..... There were always exceptions.

New Haven Joe posted:

On some dome trains, the dome car was before the observation car.

Well,,,,,,,duhhhhhh. Isn't EVERYTHING "before the observation car"?

 I rode the Amtrak California Zephyr.  The train had a baggage car, sleepers, diner, lounge car, and coaches.

The original poster is inquiring about cars for his Santa Fe F3 units.

Locomotive(s), mail express cars, baggage car(s), RPO, then generally coach section, and the rear of the train first class/sleepers ... generally separated from the rest of the train by the diner(s).  Observation car, if one, is the last car on the train .. the "sinker" in RR terms.

Numeric order, what else?

What, me worry?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I know the observation car normally comes last if that helps.

Except on Reading's Crusader, as I understand that train's consist.  It was right behind the tender....in both directions.........because it had an observation car at both ends to avoid turning the entire train.  And the tender had an 'alcove', I believe, on it's rear into which the 'front' observation car would nestle, belying its round-end presence.  Very clever.

Those fortunate enough to have one of Weaver's rendition of this classic passenger set.....chime in.  Two observation cars in the set?  Right? 

About 60+ years ago I also learned you can be the engineer while sitting in the rear seat of a boat-tail observation car.  Yepper.  When the family would ride B&O's Columbian home from vacation in the midwest (Mom's family visit), the train would take the wye in order to back into Union Station, Washington, D.C..  That's because it subsequently traveled further 'east' (more like north!) to Baltimore, etc.. later on.  Mom would let me go by myself to the observation car after our last stop eastward at Silver Spring, MD, to watch the conductor back the train into the station.  

Well, truth be told, what he was doing was communicating with the engine's cab via an air signal line located behind a door just beneath a rear window, left side.  Stop, start, horn, speed....he had a set of signals that told the engineer exactly what to do.  And the fact that the tail car stopped perfectly within a few feet of the station bumper, amazed this oogly-eyed kid beyond words.

And, since Dad usually didn't make the month-long trip with Mom and my two sisters (he was the breadwinner, of course.) he would be waiting for us at Union Station....at the bumper, knowing I'd be there in the observation car to wave to him!!  The perfect ending to a perfect vacation.  

And people wonder where I got my love of trains?.....      

KD

I'm sure you could find trains made up in any configuration depending on the roads needs at the time.  Plus, it is your railroad so put the consist together the way you like it.  Photos in books from the transition era pretty much show the consists made up per Hot Water's generalization above.  Here is how I run a PRR limited from 1949.  My preferred power for this is my Lionel E7 ABA (all powered with sound).

RPO/baggage

Combine (smoking area for coach passengers)

Coach

Coach

Chair

Chair

Kitchen

Diner

Parlor (smoking area for first class passengers)

Sleeper (duplex)

HW Sleeper

Sleeper

Sleeper

Observation

There's an exception to every rule. Here's a dome observation that didn't have to come last.

When the SP started to place the extra coaches to and from Sparks BEHIND the Pullmans on the SAN FRANCISCO OVERLAND,  Pullman passengers and the UP had issues.

So SP started to run the train head end, sleepers, diner and lounge, long haul coaches, local coaches.

Some PRR trains coming out of Washington Union ran "in reverse".  That is because of track arrangements farther up the line, the train would be in the correct direction to the west.

Some Amtrak trains which had a split ran baggage, sleepers,coaches, dinner, lounge, coaches, sleeper, baggage.

In you want to model a particular train at a particular time, one needs to do research.

TM Terry posted:

During the late '60's I road the SCL Silver Star numerous times between Jacksonville, FL (home) and Raleigh, NC (college). Most always the coachs and sleepers were separated by the diner and the club car. I can't recall there ever being an observation car, just a coach. If I recall correctly the sleepers were more often in front of the diner and club car, with the coaches behind. It was a 12 hour trip that usually occurred during night hours. On a few occasions we picked up a few cars in Columbia, SC.

Also, usually two or three early E A-units were arranged "elephant style". 

Disclaimer: that was a long time ago and my memory could be misleading me now.

And I think the STAR was split into two sections in Florida south of jacksonville.  That might explain why the locomotives were in elephant formation.

dkdkrd posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I know the observation car normally comes last if that helps.

Except on Reading's Crusader, as I understand that train's consist.  It was right behind the tender....in both directions.........because it had an observation car at both ends to avoid turning the entire train.  And the tender had an 'alcove', I believe, on it's rear into which the 'front' observation car would nestle, belying its round-end presence.  Very clever.

Those fortunate enough to have one of Weaver's rendition of this classic passenger set.....chime in.  Two observation cars in the set?  Right? 

About 60+ years ago I also learned you can be the engineer while sitting in the rear seat of a boat-tail observation car.  Yepper.  When the family would ride B&O's Columbian home from vacation in the midwest (Mom's family visit), the train would take the wye in order to back into Union Station, Washington, D.C..  That's because it subsequently traveled further 'east' (more like north!) to Baltimore, etc.. later on.  Mom would let me go by myself to the observation car after our last stop eastward at Silver Spring, MD, to watch the conductor back the train into the station.  

Well, truth be told, what he was doing was communicating with the engine's cab via an air signal line located behind a door just beneath a rear window, left side.  Stop, start, horn, speed....he had a set of signals that told the engineer exactly what to do.  And the fact that the tail car stopped perfectly within a few feet of the station bumper, amazed this oogly-eyed kid beyond words.

And, since Dad usually didn't make the month-long trip with Mom and my two sisters (he was the breadwinner, of course.) he would be waiting for us at Union Station....at the bumper, knowing I'd be there in the observation car to wave to him!!  The perfect ending to a perfect vacation.  

And people wonder where I got my love of trains?.....      

KD

rdg crusader with 2 a unit diesels; obs, coach, diner, another coach and finally other obs.

there was or still is a blog with passenger consists listed in order including breakup at junctions. 

I obtained my silver meteor consist from it years ago. 

the silver meteor had Pullmans up front and coaches to rear. obs car was coach and did not have its own vestibule for entering and exit, but rather used vestibule from nearest coach.

this is for you bob.

mikeg

Mikeg...thanks!!!

Has anyone heard/seen any updates on the GGD Silver Meteor?  Last I saw it was scheduled for "late 2017".