What the new catalogs have taught me

What strikes me is the similarity of offerings from lionel and mth. For all the secrecy, (and hype) it seems they had pretty good knowledge of what the other was going to offer.  All this leads me to question if the secrecy is about getting people to come out and see the displays?

  Just enjoy all the product that is available.  There are so many choices; the number of locomotive types that are available(EM-1, Big Boy, Allegheny, even a Reading Crusader)-all were once the domain of brass only.  Even the brass offerings of today-the various subclasses of B & O locomotives, for example, there are so many choices.  Let's be thankful for what's available because there may be a time when it may not be so accessable.  I'm thinking about the economy .  

Wow!!!! 

I look at this thread and am in some ways amazed. Yes I didn't see my Timken. Yes I saw my Milwaukee Road E9 at phenomenal prices. But there are some gems in here for those who love the Milwaukee Road, Northern Pacific, and Great Northern. 

I wanted to buy a Little Joe but I was a student in grad school the first time MTH released the Joes. I didn't have the cash to buy one and have looked for years to get one. I got a passenger Joe through the forum but still wanted a freight one. 

I wanted and hoped that MTH would redo the Great Northern S4 4-8-4. Yes my heart is with the Northern Pacific but the NP was under the influence of James Hill. That's why I collect GN items along the way. 

That and when I think of all the railroad car schemes  I'm thrilled by what I am seeing. Consider 

Scale box cars in the following new names:

Milwaukee Road variation 

Western Pacific variation 

Central of Georgia (Lionel) 

Detroit & Mackinac (Lionel) 

This is more in line of what I wanted to see... There's still a lot needing to be done, but I'll take this for now. Personally I am pleased with the new catalog as I'll finally be able to get my freight Milwaukee Road Little Joe and scale Great Northern S2 4-8-4. 

<<Exactly David, it boggles my mind that Lionel has a 194 page catalog. Back in the 70's and 80's, they were like 20 - 30 pages.>>

I wonder who it was that initiated these gargantuan catalogs?  And like slobbering freaks, we praised them, they were the savior, oh yes.  Then the others had to match to compete.

I believe Postwar Lionel and early Modern Era management paced themselves, year by year.  But that all went out the window with imports, and cheap labor.

And here we are.

I wish Lionel and the other manufactures would list a few of their engines, make just those, and then deliver them on time.  Plain and simple, then go on to the second catalog.   

Seems to me you pretty much answered your own question, John.  It's more our fault than it is the fault of the manufacturers who are trying to appeal to an increasingly fragmented segment of the hobby.  Seems to me the wiser course would have been to resist the temptation to be all things to all people.

Absolutely!  And as to which market segment to concentrate on, by far the wisest course for Lionel, MTH, and Atlas to take would be to drop everything except what appeals to me, and concentrate on that. 

Lionel and MTH both offer GP-35s.  Same locomotive, same phases.  Seeing that MTH offers a Phase 1 GP-35(1963-65), why doesn't Lionel offer a phase 2 GP-35-the one with the thinner frame above the fuel tank and the bulge over the central air intake1965-1966)?  Better yet, seeing that Atlas O offered a GP15, why not use the frame and drive as the basis for a Phase 2 GP-35?  Looks like the same frame length and number of handrail stancions.  

Trying to be all things to all people is also called increasing your market share.

There are limits. 

In an attempt to be all things to all people, someone should try and build an O scale lococomotive that will run on O27, run on both 2-rail scale and 3-rail tubular track, run on AC, DC, TMCC/Legacy, DCS, DCC, battery power, I/R, R/C, clockwork, pullstring, have scale, lobster claw, tab and slot compatible couplers and yet manage look realistic and toylike at the same time. 

And, oh yeah.  MSRP under $25.00 so it can be gotten for a street price of $18.95...

Something for everyone.  All things to all people.  Should sell a million...

Rusty

You left out swinging bell, steaming whistle and made in the USA.

Bob 

It seems to me that Lionel thinks our hobby has two categories:  4 year olds who watch Thomas the Tank engine, and 70 year olds who can buy several $1500 locomotives/year.

I think they may be right, at least to within the limits of the 80/20 rule.  I'm in both camps, nearing 70 and spending too much, because I am driven by the inner four year old (going on five!).

Even if that's true, Lee, that's a business model that's going to be viable for about 10 more years, tops.

What I am appreciative of is the fact that this hobby is still vibrant and has products in the catalog that keep my interest.  There should be many on this forum who remember the late 1960;s when Lionel had an 8 page catalog with products that were iffy at best.  

I just turned 70 and I could buy several $1500 locomotives a year but I was a machinist, never went to college, and worked way to hard for my money to spend it that way. I like my hobby but just am way to thrifty, have been all my life, to change now and can't justify spending that much.

Honestly, how long do you think Lionel can survive if they rely solely on customers who remember the catalogs from the 50s and 60s?

Lionel is leaving you behind, if you (like me) cannot afford (or justify) $1500 engines.  My version of the hobby is buying cheap "starter set" engines and using them as a basis to build my own acceptable models, and honestly, if Lionel released a $1500 Legacy version of every Reading Co. steam engine I ever wanted, I couldn't buy any of them.  Since I'm not in that market, and I'm not a 6 year old kid playing with Thomas the Tank engine, I have to be frank:  as much as I love Lionel, I'm completely disenfranchised.   I'm sorry if I come across as bitter, it's not my intention, but from where I stand, people like me are the only future this hobby has, and Lionel is not giving me anything to keep me onboard.   The elephant is in the living room, but nobody wants to talk about what happens when the baby boomers are gone (other than me buying all your significantly devalued trains.)

I would tend to agree w/ you.    With a young daughter & another baby due next month, I can't justify spending 800-1500 on engines.  I love Lionel & this hobby, but due to the prices of the new stuff & the faulty electronics which add to the cost, most of my stuff these days are used postwar engines & rolling stock.   The whole point is to enjoy the trains w/ my kids.   The only new Lionel stuff I have been getting are the conventional classics & even those have had some issues too.

I could tell you what will happen, but I don't think most here would be too happy with my prediction. 

But if you're lucky enough to be of a younger generation and are reasonably well settled in life (if there is such a thing), you're currently involved in the hobby at a time when there is a great bounty of product available.  Take advantage of it as best you can!

I think the new catalog is great.  Much more C&NW than I should spend.  I appreciate the repeats so I can still get an item that I put off in the last catalog.  One and done is not what I would like to see. 

Once again I'm doing as I preach.

I Voted with my wallet.

Lionel is getting money for Made (assembled) in USA cars & President cars. Despite the mass number of cataloged engines, I saw nothing I wanted for the price.

MTH is getting money for track and a Rio Grande Challenger (4-6-6-4) in the Imperial Railking line.

I do find Lionel has lost the mass market, better than starter but not Premier level engines are non existent.

MTH still has it but I still agree they need a bit less of the same old PRR and eastern lineup and more of the short lines represented.

Heck, just one set per catalog in something they already have the molds for will make many people happy.

And I'm not talking fantasy lines here, do the lines that ran on those engines.

The research can be provided by the forum. Ask who ran engine XXX, Someone here can tell you.

Meanwhile, back at the original thread title...

The new catalog has taught me to be patient. 

As I stated in a couple other threads seeking similar comments, the BEST news for me is the return of the 15" extruded aluminum passenger cars...with the full-features list of their longer siblings and K-Line benchmarks...in the Neil Young Signature series...Texas Special and Pennsy.  Although they're not roads that I might purchase, they are a welcome herald of good things to come.

KD   

I understand where Wowak and Christopher are coming from.  Like many others, I grew up with Lionel trains in the 50's and 60's.  When my own family came around in the late 70's and 80's, I wanted to get back into trains and share the hobby with my 3 kids.  Lionel trains and accessories were too expensive for our budget. (I was a High School teacher for 37 years)  HO trains were a lot more affordable and that is the way we went.  It was not until all my kids were thru college that I could finally justify spending the money that is required to get into 3 rail.

KD;

Totally agree;

I see MTH ran some Railking 3 car sets. Not anything I want this time but I applaud the general idea. I can't usually afford the 6 car premier sets, tho I love the looks.

Lately, I've been staying with Williams, RMT, and the secondary market.

Maybe someone will make CSS & SB MU cars with the proper headlight placement and correct roof. The Little Joes for the CSS & SB did not pull passenger cars.  Just sayin'.

Maybe the recent blowouts has found the price point at which their base is no longer participating and it will usher in changes yet to be seen. All I can say is I hope they make a buck. 

The new catalogs have taught me that new locomotives, rolling stock and accessories are unaffordable for my retirement fixed income. I need Jim Sutter to reopen his shop so I can buy Rail King locos at affordable prices!