What type of motors are used in the new Lionel Tinplate series under Traditional?

The 2015 MTH Ready-to-Run catalog states that the traditional tinplate sets (non-PS3) have 1930's style open frame motor with mechanical reverse unit and no sound or smoke.

I don't see the piece shown in your picture in that catalog, but I would guess they would all be similar if listed as traditional? I don't 'have the tinplate catalog.

The proto 3 models have can motors. The traditional style locos have copies of original motors. China has had trouble reproducing the motors in post war celebration types of locos, but I do not know how well they are manufacturing the prewar motors.

I have been buying all mine recently with PS, but I have some earlier purchases with the "traditional" motors. The O gauge have done well except one. The commutator in my red comet had a bad winding and cost me a bunch to fix.

My traditional Std Gauge run well, but not terrific pullers although they are improving with age. They are both Flyer bell ringers and that mechanism is a royal pain. Wish I had gone with the PS versions.

Steve

The traditional motors have all been the old open frame type.  I have an MTH Tinplate Traditions 381E Traditional modern era loco which has been nothing but problems since I purchased it.  I sent it back to MTH for a warranty repair which lasted all of about three weeks.  In the end I had to replace the entire motor, E-unit and roller plate.  Needless to say it cost me more than just a few bucks.  From everything I have been able to learn it seems that the ability to properly build an open frame motor has been lost.   If I ever buy again it will be a modern era sound system.   

In my opinion, the problem is multifaceted.

The Chinese machinists seem to be scattered around the countryside in small garage-type businesses, so the consistency of quality and machining is erratic. Lots of newer Williams products have less than precise machining.

The open frame motor is a thing of the past. The modern factories in China have never seen such a thing and there is nothing like it in any of the other modern, consumer-type products that they manufacture. That means that they do not know which parts to make really well and which parts they can skimp on.

They pretty much make everything as cheaply as possible. As an example, when they need flexible wire for a roller pick up, they often just use thinner wire, rather than super flex wire.

Remember that in the old days, toy trains were made in dedicated American factories by workers who built them all year round. Now, the Chinese factories make trains in piece lots. The workers may have never made a train before last week and may never make one again. 

The modern philosophy is that all mechanical/electronic devices are single use, throw away type items. That is a very different philosophy from making something to last and to be repairable.

Maybe I should just wait and look for a decent Prewar Lionel 256 Loco and avoid the new re pro open frame type motors and their problems.

Looking at the forum with the folks with the new Lionel locos that have electronic problems, scattered zinc rot problems, flames coming out of the stacks and can motors that I do know will last 10 or more years. the old stuff looks better.

RonH

RonH,

You do realize that the Tinplate is produced by MTH and not Lionel... It just has the Lionel badge,

Sunrise

Hello Sunrise:

Yes I know MTH makes it and that there is a license agreement between the two.

Just trying to justify a future purchase and learning by the forums satisfactions and problems with the re-pro tin plate Locos.

RonH

I have purchased three traditionally powered O gauge LCT offerings and one Std. gauge (Super 381) traditionally powered two-motored LCT engine. All have been fine. The posts here suggest the possiblity of sample-to-sample variation.

Bob

Bob thank you for the input, sounds like you would purchase another one when you have a chance. All I m trying to do is get some opinions to justify a traditional tip plate purchase. The last new set I got was the Christmas story train set as all other purchases been prewar. Would like to buy something new in a old style.

RonH

Just a thought, but in the Ready-to-Run catalog I have the prices are the same for Traditional and PS3. Some here have reported PS3 engines to run better in conventional mode than previous PS2 models. You might het a better performing train going with PS3?

This has been true since they started making the LCT traditional items.

Jeff Davis

I have the LCT Christmas O gauge pasenger set w/ the traditional motor.  I will tell you that that little engine runs as smooth as butter. I'm very happy with it,

Sunrise

I have a 9E electric that I purchased in 1998 and it has always run perfectly.

traditional version.

I have no idea why a ps-3 engine would run better than a ps-2 in conventional.

In all fairness to MTH I must submit an addendum to my original post.  I have spent so much time fiddling around with my chronically ailing 381E that I forgot to mention that I also have a MTH 9E with the traditional open frame motor and to date it has run extremely well with nary a problem.  Sorry for the oversight.

Is this just conjecture or do you know this for a fact?  I thought MTH has some dedicated factories for their trains, and certainly WbB has Sanda Kan behind it.

I have heard from MTH rep that the factories do seem to have trouble making these motors.  Seems weird since a can motor has windings too.  Alignment and bearings matter to both.

Open frame motor is not really that complex, but I guess it is more hand made then a run of 1 Million DC can motors.  So I can see that as being a bigger issue.  Small production, hand made can cause issues.   G

GGG I am wondering when they will be using brushless motors like they use in Rc?