What was mth first train

400e I believe-I think believe  it was 2 200 series tinplate cars

Mike worked for Jerry Williams for many years and was well-established on his own when he did some contract work for Lionel in the 1980s on the 'Lionel Classics' tinplate line with the O gauge MR Hiawatha among the first. There was some standard gauge as well but someone else will have to supply that info.

When he launched MTH as we know it today he produced a pair of O gauge modern diesels in Warbonnet and Amtrak I believe it was.

Next was an industry first with a Die cast Challenger

The first MTH consumer publication was a 4-color horizontal 8 1/2" x 11" flyer offering Williams Baldwin Sharks, distributed during the York Meet on October 17, 1985.

sorry guy about the pic..these are old pic,and I  took a pic of my old pics with my cell phone..there 1997..my first train was a UP challenger..Id moded it.. repainted that stupid gray on the front to silver metalic and made number boards for it and added firebox light.2nd and 3rd pic are me and 3 1/2 year old daughter..she loved that challenger and at that time I was going threw a nasty nasty divorce with her psycho mom...I'd ended up selling all my trains because of her mom..last 2 pics when I'd had them in the sun room of my appartment....had the challenger..SP G4 daylight and UP bigblow.. too..I'm hoping to get another challenger some day..I miss it..

As I recall (having lived just a couple of miles from Mike's former train store at the time), Marty has it right.  Mike was making a variety of tinplate trains in O and Std. Gauge, including having tinplate stuff made for LTI, before he got into "regular" O gauge in the early 90s.  His first catalog was actually more of a flyer than a catalog.  I used to visit his shop at least once a week.  Fun times!

I believe this was MTH's first Railking line die cast locomotive it also came in Santa Fe. I bought this October 1995. I think I paid $125.00 it was a great deal at the time. I know the Railking Dash 8 diesels came out after this because I preordered one and was disappointed on how short they were, but they ran great.

Now that I pulled this out of the box I will have to give it some run time : )

franktrain

Thanks everyone. I had one of the tiny railking dash8. At the time when I was 19 it looked so big. Now it looks like a toy beside my sd70ace. I would love to see his fist dash8. 

Perhaps my memory is faulty because I seem to recall the Dash-8 (Santa Fe) diesel being the first "regular O" product, but I'll have to go back to my library when I get home to confirm that.

The Dash-8 came out in Spring/Summer of 1993 or 1994 - My Dad bought the Conrail one from Trainworld

Here it is working on my Chicago layout, after an NS patch was added. Original cab number was 6050

I just checked a couple of the many guides I have, and the MTH Santa Fe Dash-8 was released in 1993.

I realize that many of today's hobbyists no longer rely on price guides, but they still are valuable resources for determining other things about a firm's production, as well as variations thereof.

franktrain,

   That is the first MTH locomotive to have a mechanical smoke unit like an American Flyer Smoke and Choo-Choo unit. Previous MTH steamers had Seuthe units.

   I vaguely recall that MTH introduced a fan-driven smoke unit in a Premier EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS 4-6-4 that year.

   ID-ing the first MTH model can be difficult. Mike Wolf helped Jerry Williams assemble tinplate trains in the 1970's. Then he started selling Williams trains. As sales grew, he organized Mike's Train House and hired employees. MTH became Williams' largest distributor and played a large role in production. In the early 1980's, MTH acquired Williams' Standard Gauge line. So the histories of Williams and MTH overlap. Lionel entered the picture when Richard Kughn and Mike Wolf teamed up to offer Lionel Classic models.

   It would be interesting to ask Mike Wolf at York next week what he considers the first MTH model.

Allan,

  I recommend M.T.H. Illustrated Price & Rarity Guide No. 1 by Tom McComas and Chuck Krone. It was published in 1999, before DCS and TMCC, but it contains lots of information about the early days and listings of MTH paper.

Yes, I have that book as well as just about every other reference and price guide ever published for Lionel and MTH, Including the "A Toy Train Story" book noted by C. Sam.

On an interesting sidelight, I have a set of UP aluminum 15" passenger cars that were among the earliest Mike made.  It is a 5 car set-shortly thereafter he went to 4 car sets with two car add-ons.  What is most interesting is that the box looks like a typical MTH box except is is labelled "Mike's Toy House".  Oh, and the two car add-on that came after has the regular "Mike's Train House" on the box.

The first diesel was a scale Dash8.  

I just checked my "A Toy Train Story" History of MTH. The scale Dash 8's were the deal breaker between Lionel and MTH.

There were 8 different road names. 

Sorry for the poor photo quality

franktrain

Right you are, Marty.  I wrote Railking in my earlier post, but have since corrected it.  I do recall getting $400 for a first MTH catalog/brochure a few years back.  I probably still have one or two packed away somewhere, but I'm not motivated to go hunting for them.

This has been said many times before, I imagine - maybe even somewhere above in this thread - but, without Mike Wolf, or someone like him (and who would that be?) and

Jerry Williams ("Williams" still connotes good-quality, Samhongsa-built brass steam,

to me), we O-gaugers would be a sad bunch - and I and my checkbook wouldn't be part of it.

Having said that, MTH and Williams (later era) get less of my money than Lionel and Lionel's pals, as the operating system in one case and the general product in the

other steer me elsewhere.

Ironic. But, anyway, thanks Mike and Jerry. I assume that you have enjoyed all the money

that I've sent you over the last 20 years!

 We still have a few of these brochures that must be number two or three depicting the Challenger.

I wonder if I could get a couple of hundred $$$ for them!

or possibly an interesting trade...

MTH's first diecast steam engine was the Challenger. I bought the Clinchfield version of the War Department's Defense Plant prototype originally assigned to the DRG&W which didn't use them.

3RD Rail later made the Early Challenger.

Dash 8 was first Diesel.

In the book A Toy Train History, it mentions the first Model produced by Mike Wolf as being a repro # 9 electric. It also mentioned the first customer to buy one.

An interesting occurrence in product offerrings when the Lionel Mike Wolf split came was that Lionel catalogued and released an Erie Lackawanna  A-A  PA-1  set . The B unit for the A-A ser was released as a MTH Premier item shortly after the breakup.

I think you have to put the infamous * with MTH stuff:

1.  Lionel Classics.

2.  Mike and Williams.

3.  First P Locomotives.

4.  First RK train sets.....

i thinki have a flyer from1987 from mth- he was a mail order dealer selling williams repro standard guage. 1993 was the first yearfor the first scale engine he made [dash 8 ] .at that time ,you could buy directly from mth at list price. the c30-7 in 1994 was the first with proto sound, which was state-of-the-art in sound at the time.-jim

In its early days MTH was also producing other items:

Ah, yes!  Those definitely were the good old days!  The monthly open houses at the Gerwig Lane store (Thursday evenings, as I recall) were always a lot of fun, too, and very well attended.  Guest speakers, snacks, good fellowship, etc.  Fun times!

Deal breaker, indeed!  I was in Mike's store the very afternoon he came back from his first meeting with his attorney.  And the rest, as the saying goes, is history.

It was maybe a few weeks  after I got a lionel postwar 736 berkshire.While looking through a o gauge train meagzine.Northeast trains had the railking erie berkshire.When I got by ups.I was suprise by the heft of it.All metal and will move with the best of them.I had every o gauge boxcars at the time.The berkshire pulled the train no problem.Later I got a c&o berkshire a few years later.I had the c&o pull a 42 boxcar train.The erie did just as well.I also have a dash 8 ns break up from a set.Its also a good puller nice looking head light.Mikes first trains may not have all the bells and whatnot.But they will pull a train and leave a trail of smoke.Reminds me of the movies that were made during the 1940s.That had trains in the back ground.

Hey is that the one that had the american flyer smoke unit.They were pretty cool but it was a few years before.I got into o gauge trains.I just couldn,t deal with h.o. any more.I never had good eyesight.Had glass all my life even as a baby.After another night trying a ho trains.A real bad headace that was the last straw.O gauge trains here I come.I have 4 mountains steamers.Which will be fixed up as sal rr.

Back in the mid seventies Al Cox, Dan Olson (American Flyer fame) and I went back to York from Seattle.  One of the side stops we made was at Jerry Williams home.  He took us to the garage where trains were being assembled.  Mike was there that evening.  I remember Jerry giving each of us a "746" plastic shell he was making for one of his new locomotives.  We all had a great time.

TEX

Steve