What would you choose?

All depends what it is? Which one is it

Lets say an electric a 408e or Olympian 3245r long hood.

 

Sunrise

I would purchase the PS 2 Version due to the fact of it being newer and if the electronics did go out on it it could readily be repaired by replacement or by upgrading you also have the fact that if the traditional motor goes out on it it might be real hard to find a replacement/ 

All this aside you need to decide if this is an engine you want to have and run

 

Well from pulling power either 408e will do but with the Ives stuff proto 2 with Pittman

PS-2. I run often with the sounds turned off. A can motor is superior to a traditional motor in many ways.

I purchased 4 tinplate engines last year. Three were traditional and the 318 had PS2. I had problems with everyone of the traditional motors. They all suffered from a design flaw, both O and STD Gauge. These were new old stock MTH. Ithought it would be ok because the traditional motors should be a simpler fix. Luckily, Steve Eastman substituted other parts that worked out. Everything running good now. I enjoy running both, but miss speed control with traditional motors. My monorail is traditional, and it runs fine at the moment, but comments by Southwest Hiawatha have me concerned about its traditional motor. I will be ordering another monorail with PS3, and probably all   my new purchases will have electronics. I have over 20 MTH engines. All have PS2. I only had a problem with one. Hope this helps. Either way, enjoy your new engine!

 

Bob

Last year I got 2 Flyer steamers, one conventional Piper and one PS3 4694. I now hardly ever run the conventional Piper. The PS3 4694 is just so much nicer to run. Smooth, pulls great where the Piper struggles with just a few cars, and that da%n reverse unit they put in it won't stay in any place I put it. As far as pulling, the Piper has improved a bit with age, but still no where near as well as the 4694. Being as I do a lot of running at meets and shows, the PS versions allow me to walk away for a break or spend time chatting with the public. With conventional, you need to be near the throttle lever.

If the electronics fail when no replacements are available, a few simple components will allow it to run again minus some of the fancy features. A non electrical type like myself can even handle that. Based on the experience with the 2 Flyers, my last 5 purchases have been PS versions.

 

Steve

Like CP Bob, a couple of years ago I decided to go with the traditional 381E with an open framed motor rather than with Proto 2 381E.  My logic was similar to CP Bob's in that I thought there would be less problems with the traditional motor and if one did develop it would be a fairly simple fix.  Well, I chose poorly.  The 381E I bought had a bad armature and I had to send it back to MTH.  It took about 3 months for me to get it back with a replacement armature.  After running it a few days the metal plate which holds the gears and armature in place fell off because the screws weren't long enough to keep it attached.  This time I did the fix myself.  So, from there on out I purchased Proto 2 engines but I must admit I didn't bat .1000 there either.  There is a school of thought that the current labor supply is perhaps not as familiar with the old technology which sometimes leads to faulty production and subsequent repair problems with the old open frame motors .  Supposedly, being more familiar with the modern production materials leads to less out of box repair issues.  I guess everyone must decide for themselves if this is true but as for me I've been one of the unfortunate ones who have had problems with both.   

Granted that a can motored SG locomotive will usually pull more than a traditionally powered sample, but the trade off is that three pole open frame motors have the right 'feel', sound, and ozone. Can-motored PS2 tinplate comes off as modern trains dressed up as old ones. I am also a bit mystified by the comments regarding the lack of dependability of traditional motors. I have repros of Lionel-branded (no Flyer, however) tinplate (SG and O) stretching from over the last 15 years and I have never had a serious problem for any of them. One has to keep an eye on the state of lubrication and I have had a few e-units that required a spritz of tuner cleaner, but that's it. When so equipped, tinplate with air whistles and the whir of an open frame motor sound better and 'truer' than electronically generated sound to these ears.

 

For what it is worth. Your mileage may vary.

 

Bob

I agree completely with your position that the old open frame motors have the right feel and sound and possess that pungent aroma of ozone that seems right for Tinplate.  The can motors can't give you that.   In fact I prefer the traditional motors over the modern can motors when running tinplate.  I have a fair balance of the two but most of my traditional powered tinplate consists of motive power produced in Korea under the Lionel Classics moniker.  I have never had any problems whatsoever with these products.

I have two MTH traditional 408E's ("Tinplate Traditions") and have had zero problems after hours of running. I dislike traction tires - even replaced the two traction tire wheelsets on my Brute with regular drive wheelsets.

 

Also prefer e-unit buzz. Both 408E's are weighted for good traction.

 

Would NOT purchase the new LCT units, either trad. or cont.

 

Agreed, the buzz of the e-unit is part of the 'romance' of tinplate.

 

I have during the past winter purchased a traditional O gauge LCT 265E and an LRRC Prospector (one of the very few Traditional ones). Both are beautifully finished and run smoothly. The Prospector is decorated beautifully and is fitted with a diecast body air whistle which sounds great. The set runs very well, indeed. The offset voltage for the air whistle is very well calibrated vis-a-vis the voltage range necessary to motivate the set. Honestly, I can not think of anything to improve upon what MTH/LCT did when they built this set. The No. 214 Outfit (Armored Train) is nicely finished and runs very smoothly.

 

Also, I own a two-motored SG Traditional LCT Super 381 which operates very well, has gratifying fit and finish, and makes a great impression with visitors.

 

Some good experiences here. Again, your mileage may vary.

 

Bob

Most of the pre-war tinplate I own is without the e-unit. I like the forward reverse lever.

 

I have 2 9Es from MTH a traditional and a proto-1. With the sounds off it is hard to tell the difference although there is, in the feel.

Were there any issue with the Super 381?  I thought I remember folks weren't very impressed with the design.  Or was it me?

 

Sunrise

 

I does not fit through a Hellsgate bridge. MTH lighted lockons hit. It hits the housing on MTH switches. Mine derails on MTH switches. 280 bridge needs to be modified and it will not fit on a 101 bridge.

 

Other than that and that really is not a whole lot it is a beautiful locomotive and looks great pulling State cars.

 

Since I'm 100% "Old School", I would go for the traditional. Since the PS2 is out dated now, if anything happens to it, here come PS3 ($200.+)

My take:

 

Not only are their apparently design issues with the newer LCT production, I believe they have cut corners quality-wise, including finishes!  

 

Will stick with my "Lionel Classics" and earlier "Tinplate Traditions" locos and rolling stock!

 

The Proto 2.0 green Brute, which I own, is well-built and is a solid performer pulling the four green "Showroom" cars, ALL of which had some minor, though ANNOYING paint issues! 

When I have the need, I carry my Super 381 by first placing some foam sheeting between the body and the pilots and I lift the engine in the middle underneath the chassis. Always works for me. The side-to-side clearance issues are a result of the piece being a faithful copy of the one existing developemental sample. MTH/LCT had the commercial courage to make the Brute and Super, which are quite unique and special. But, they may not be for everyone because of their size and weight.

 

Getting back to the original question, the two traditional motors in my Super run well and the engine does pull a complete State set with ease. As with Art's experiences, my older issue Lionel Classics and earlier Tinplate Traditions tinplate (SG and O) are well-made, conventionally powered, and continue to give faithful service.

 

Bob

It's been my observation that the newer tinplate is not made as well as older editions. When did the change occur I can't say for certain but probably within the last couple of years. The quality control has dropped drastically and they have resorted to using cheaper Chinese made motors instead of Pittman motors. I am not happy with the direction they are heading.

But to answer the original question, I like and buy both. They each have their own pros and cons. Sunrise, I recall you struggling with this dilemma since you got into tinplate, still haven't been able to make up your mind?  Maybe you should not exclude one in favor of the other, I found that works for me.

John.

John,

 

Hope all is well... I was focusing more on the fact that one engine is the PS2 5v vice the preferred PS2 3v.  Since there has been some angst about the PS2 5v system... I was curious if that would be enough for folks to buy the traditional version.  I have both traditional and PS2/PS3 engines.  Depending on the mood...dictates which gets the rail time.  To support your concerns about LCT...Every piece of LCT motive power I have purchased both in O and Standard gauge has had issues...every single one.. from finish to mechanical.

 

Regards,

Sunrise

You could purchase a vintage piece in whatever condition you desire. If condition warrants refurbish, do color scheme of your choice. The early Lionel motors are an easy rebuild. When all is said and done you will have earned bragging rights .