When to upgrade your transformer

Some day you may find your Transformer inadequate, Not yet from your post.

When you change the switches to Aux Power, you will need that power, buy a bigger one then and use the current one for the switches.

It ain't broke, Don't "fix" it 

I believe a transformer is the heart and sole of any O gauge train operation.  I always recommend in this case more rather than not enough.  Think of the future, lighting, accessories, etc.  In most cases I recommend a post war ZW, professionally re firbished with new circuit breaker, carbon rollers, etc.  This transformer can handle whatever you do in the future, it will hold its value and it looks great with the "engineer hands on handles".  Save your 80 watt for the Christmas tree.

There are good options for the ZW on the bay, where they put new parts on, clean, test and you get a transformer which looks and operates like new.  Weather you are conventional or command, the post war ZW handles both easily.

TEX

Steve

I will tout my favorite transformer, the Lionel LW rated at 125 watts.  It is the best watts/dollar value out there.  They can be had on ebay for $25-35 plus ship and cheaper at local TCA train meets or Craigslist.

What to like?  Enough power to run two trains per loop,  lighted dial indicating when and how much power is on and for night operation,  High variable voltage range output, low cost so multiple loop train operation with individual LW is feasible, good looking.

Other things,  The LW is not good to mix with some other transformers as its speed lever turns counter clockwise to increase and most others turn clockwise.  This makes mixing confusing.  While 125 watts is adequate for two train running it is best to only power the train and install other transformers for switches, lights, etc.

Charlie

Picture of one of my Three LWs on the layout.

I have a medium size layout (about 400 feet of track, 150 feet of Superstreets (I guess I should say EZ-Street now) and maybe two dozen lighted builings and accersories.

I run only conventional - a choice I made because I deal with enough computers at work. 

I think my situation is unique to conventional users but I have never had to upgrade a transformerbut I am always adding them.  Since, for a conventional owner, transformers are the control (as they are not with DCC), I've tended to need more rather than bigger ones as my layout and its complexity grows.

I currently have"

- the Z4000 with its two sides each controlling one of my two biggest loops.  Each loop can run up to three trains due to blocking and relays that keep the trains apart.  So each side of the ZW is running up to two or three large lighted trains sometimes , and it is also powering all my accersories and lights.  I will say that this unit is sometimes taxed close to its max when running five or six trains and all accessories, but since modern lighted cars use LCDs more often than not I expect the requirements for power to go down, not up, as I buy more in the future - I never expect this to not meet the needs for these two loops.

- four of the Lionel 80 watt singles, one each for my two largest loops and for each of two small railyards where I run/switch locos back and forth before going out on the mainlines.  Never had one even come close to not being able to power one or two trains/locos at a time, even with lighted cars.

- two DC power supplies - one for each of my two Superstreets loops - one is the MicroModel DC supply that came with an SS RTR set, the other a 16DCV electronically chopped HO power supply: I remove the rectifiers in all my SS vehciles and run on DC, so I can put them in reverse.

- I will soon need (and have) to add three more Lionel 80 watt AC singles:

  - I am building something like the Duquesne incline to a mountatop on my layout, which will use a modified bump and go trolley.

  - While the "moving boat on lake" I posted videos of this past weekend uses a 120 V motor, version 3.0 will use a variable 5-20 V AC mechanism so I can vary boat speed, and there will be two boats, hence two supplies.   

I think my experience is probably, at least qualitatively, like that of most who run conventional. 

If you don't have a Z4000, it's time to upgrade. I'm not a Purple lover . BF

I have been tempted for a z4000 but since I will run command only I think just the power bricks would be better for me.

In my opinion that 80 watt transformer is working too hard.  At minimum get separate power to those switches.

I see alot of Z4000s on ebay, almost as many as postwar ZW.  Many of these Z4000s are older generations, early 2000s.  Are there any issues with older generations of the Z4000?

Joe

The problem with the "bricks" is that they only offer a constant voltage with no option to vary the voltage.  I'm not even sure what their rated voltage is, but I suspect it's around 20 vac.  I personally like to run my layout on a lower voltage because the car lights last much longer and, to me, actually look better.  I do have a Z-4000 and operate using both DCS and TMCC/Legacy.  When I power up the tracks, I run up to 17vac, and try to hold it at that level. 

You don't have that option with the Power House bricks unless you put a resistor in the circuit, and even then, when you have very little draw, you still have full voltage across the rails.

Unless the ZW has been completly revised and updated, I'd be a bit cautious about using it as well.  Frist, the voltages that Lionel provided around the "dials", have little to do with the actual voltage.  Second, you really need to have a fast actiing circuit breaker, set accurately, to protect your TIU as well as the on board electronics on your trains.  the old workhorse, ZW, has a strong fascination for many of us because that's how we used to run our trains, but, like a lot of old equipment, it's just not up to the modern demands.

My recommendation is for a Z-4000, for one thing because of the digital gauges on it.   It will be the last transformer you will ever need.

Paul Fischer

Paul, your comments on a fast acting circuit breaker is not necessarily true.  On my medium size layout I have my circuit breaker and fuses between the ZW and the track and this set up works just fine.  The other thing, since he is running conventional and exact voltage versus the dial markings is rather picky in a way.  I have never looked at those lines except when re setting my ZW voltage for a specific accessory. 

The reason I mentioned the Post war ZW is it is the best bang for the dollar.  Plenty of room to run trains, accessories and lighting and they hold their value over the long run.  The ZW has no transistors, diodes or other electronic crap to break down especially if the components were made in China.  The post war ZW was American made.

TEX

Steve

I guess I should have put in that I will be using the variable channels on my TIU, so I will be able to run conventional and command control, plus be able to run at a lesser voltage.

I have my bricks running to my TIU with no problems at all. I only use them for track power only because they do trip fast in the event of a derailment so an expensive board won't get fried! Older transformers are fine for accessories and lights.I use a old school ZW that my brothers use to use when they were kids for the majority of my accessory power.

Like the old MTV slogan "Too much is never enough." Realistically, though, you need to look at what you'll be running on your particular layout and select a transformer that can deliver power to meet that need.

For example, a two-can diesel draws between 1.5 and 1.75 amps under load at 18 volts, so a transformer that can deliver 10 amps to the track will run five of them with some power to spare for the lighted caboose. A Z1000, Lionel Brick, or one throttle of a Z4000 or Lionel ZW (new one) can do that just fine.

If you add passenger cars with modern lighting, factor in about 1/3 amp per car (let's leave LED lighting out for now.) Older 4-bulb cars can draw as much as 1 amp each depending on vintage and bulbs used, so a 7-car passenger train with a two-can diesel is pretty close to the limit of our 10-amp transformer.

You can use "bricks" with an MTH TIU to feed the variable channels, and under TMCC/Legacy, you can use them with a TPC-300 or TPC-400 to run conventional locomotives. For throttle types, either a Z4000 or the new ZW will work fine.

For accessories, it gets tricky as they're all over the place depending on whether they're operating and what types of motors they're using. The best bet for post-war accessories is using a higher powered "throttle" transformer to provide power. We found out (the hard way) that the MTH operating buildings (including the lights) drew somewhere between 1.5 and under 2 amps when running as the Z4000 accessory breakers would pop when kids ran more than two of the operating buildings. We've since installed a 40-amp accessory power supply (4x12vx10amp) BTW, double-fuse your accessory power -- the large one for the main, and smaller ones for each accessory. This helps isolate a problem quickly.

Personally, I have a Z4000 and I don't even have a layout to put it on. I'm also planning to get a pair of Lionel bricks so I can feed 10 amps to each channel on my TIU when I get a layout built.

I have 8 bricks,they all put out 18 volts or something very close to it. I would not recommend running DCS at a significantly lower voltage. The reason is that lower voltage means more amps through the cruise control to do the same amount of work.

The bricks offer much better wattage per dollar than the Z4000. Under command the throttle is useless unless you want to cut voltage.

For the brick you can cut voltage from 18 volts to 17 volts by installing a 25 amp bridge rectifier in series. Power consumption of the bridge for voltage reduction will be 1.2 times the amperage drawn to the track. Jump the + to the - and put the 2 ~ leads in series to the center rail lead.

Dropping voltage with diodes is described here

http://www.jcstudiosinc.com/BlogShowThread?id=413&categoryId=426

Converting lighted cars to LED lighting will save up to 95% of the power they consume with light bulbs. Draw is typically less than a half watt per car if a command circuit is used to 1.5 watts per for a conventional constant voltage circuit.. 

Dale H

Ok so I just ordered a transformer.  I decided to go with a MRC - Pure Power Dual AC, 270W one.  This should have plenty of power to run my trains, and use my smaller transformers to power my switches and accessories.  

Lionel should offer a PowerHouse/PowerMaster combo which cam be controlled by a very simple "Cab-1".  That woulod be a hit with conv. runners.  And if not L, somebody else.  That should not take rocket science!

It looks like you had the MRC in mind even before you posted this thread.  There were a lot of good ideas and suggestions on this thread.  Good luck with your acquisition. 

TEX

Steve

i did have the MRC in mind when I posted but it was really a toss up between the MRC or a few Lionel Bricks.  What I was hopping everyone would say it that if what I am running now runs on the 80watt to just use that for the time being.   

But as luck would have it the day after I ordered the MRC I found in a box at my rental unit my old postwar TW.  It was my uncles when he was a kid and I received it from him when I was a kid.  The cord was replaced around 15 years ago and it is in perfect condition.  I thought it was lost after our move, stolen out of our garage or something when the movers were here.  I went over today to fix the hot water heater and wow I found a box of train stuff that I had left in a storage closet in the garage.

Since this is a 175 watt transformer, and works 100% with a good cord, I will use that instead. I will purchase some fast acting fuses though before I plug it in.  The 80watt transformers I own will be used for accessories, lighting, and my staging yard.

Since the TW has a 2nd core, I will use that side of the transformer to power the switches.

So I canceled my MRC order and will use that money to buy some more switches.