We have the scale Santa Fe F3's #18 which sit nicely on their trucks but have seen some of the scale F units that sit too high. Which one's are too high and why did Lionel build them that way?
From memory didn't they produce 2 or 3 Santa Fe sets, the B&O, Western Pacific, and others during the mid 2000's? These were mostly TMCC units.
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All of them... I enjoyed the thread on how easy it is to lower them:
Yes, but not all of them are easy to lower from what I remember. We have an ABBA set and one of the B units was from the F7's. I picked it up as it is one of the 'Breakdown' B's and swapped a F3 shell for it. It sits noticeable higher than the other three units and could not be easily lowered.
c.sam posted:Yes, but not all of them are easy to lower from what I remember. We have an ABBA set and one of the B units was from the F7's. I picked it up as it is one of the 'Breakdown' B's and swapped a F3 shell for it. It sits noticeable higher than the other three units and could not be easily lowered.
Yes, the F-7s sit higher than the F-3s. As I recall, the F-7s used a somewhat different drive mechanism, which created the need for a slightly increased height. My recollection is the same as yours about doing lowering modifications - due to complication, and the time that would be required, it's not something I would be inclined to attempt.
Sam, The F7s have Liondrive which is supposed to make the truck easily detachable and they do sit higher than the F3s but the 3RS guys think the F3s are too high as well. There have been threads on lowering both in the 3RS forum. Not being a 3RS guy I haven't paid much attention to them
Pete
Thanks guys - so as far as we know all the F3's are the 'regular' 4 wheel-drive trucks that sit 'normally' for a Lionel diesel? I remember something about the other trucks that they had only one axel driving as well.
Sam,
The best way to differentiate is by product number. One item I recall is the first run of Santa Fe F3's had the class lights bleeding thru the shell and paint when illuminated. I think there is what, 3 or 4 versions of frames and trucks on these?
c.sam posted:Thanks guys - so as far as we know all the F3's are the 'regular' 4 wheel-drive trucks that sit 'normally' for a Lionel diesel? I remember something about the other trucks that they had only one axel driving as well.
I recall that some of the runs after the original scale F3 release also incorporated the quck-detach (and single-drive axle) trucks, which also made them sit high.
c.sam posted:Thanks guys - so as far as we know all the F3's are the 'regular' 4 wheel-drive trucks that sit 'normally' for a Lionel diesel? I remember something about the other trucks that they had only one axel driving as well.
Its is hard to keep track of which is which. My F3's have the all axles driven while my F7s have the single axles driven.
Norton posted:Sam, The F7s have Liondrive which is supposed to make the truck easily detachable and they do sit higher than the F3s but the 3RS guys think the F3s are too high as well. There have been threads on lowering both in the 3RS forum. Not being a 3RS guy I haven't paid much attention to them
Pete
True true true, just to dang high. Sam, laidoffsick probably knows. You can email him.
BobbyD posted:Sam,
The best way to differentiate is by product number. One item I recall is the first run of Santa Fe F3's had the class lights bleeding thru the shell and paint when illuminated. I think there is what, 3 or 4 versions of frames and trucks on these?
Sam, as a reminder, you've asked this same question before, back in 2014. 
What were the first Lionel full-scale F units please? I was out of the hobby for a dozen years back then and am curious.
And can someone explain why some of them have the odd 'high-water' truck/chassis spacing and which ones are the offenders.
The first run of the Lionel scale SF F-3s was cab no. 16, item no. 14536. It had several issues that were corrected in the next run. The next F-3 set produced had cab no. 18 (item no. 24529), followed by a third issue with cab no. 19 (item no. 14588). There was also a conventional scale F-3 made, which had cab no. 17. The F-7 set was made after the F-3s - it's item no. is 24589, with cab no. 332. As far as I remember, all the F-3s had the same chassis and drive mechanism and ride height.
These are not to be confused with the so-called Postwar Scale Warbonnet Lionel did later, which was equipped with Legacy. This is a repo of the Postwar style F-3, with added scale details, but not a scale version of the real thing, like the earlier versions were. For example, the Postwar scale version has no MARS light, and the yellow stripe on the nose doesn't go all the way back to the cab, which is how the Postwar engine was painted.
Two of the issues I recall with the first issue, cab no. 16, was an overly bright cab light that didn't go off, and the bulbs behind the number boards were mounted too close to the boards and could melt or warp them. I don't recall anything about bleed-through, and have not observed that in the ones I've seen. Cab no. 16 also had the older style Odyssey unit; the no. 18 and no. 19 had the newer version with the on/off switch and smoother operation.
Lionel has this disclaimer about continuous improvement blah and every single run of F3s was slightly different in the trucks (mostly in the wiring) which demanded some changes in the hardware the wiring was mounted to. If I remember correctly ATSF 16 and 18 sat the lowest and 19 was the highest. So, other road F3s from the same catalog run will be the same. The F7s all sit even higher as they transitioned to the newer removable legacy trucks. The more of a PITA the trucks were to remove from the unit the lower they sat. But they all sit too high; the earlier ones being easier to lower by adding a spacer to the mounts which were screwed in place. You didn't necessarily have to even remove the earliest trucks to lower them.
I'll just keep my 2353 and 2245 PW F3's just as they are.
I'd think a Legacy version of the scale Warbonnets would be showing up pretty soon. It'll be interesting to see how those appear.
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