Why don't importers paint the wheels and tires of locomotives black?

Because there are too many people that like their shiny things, as in "Look at my shiny thing..."

The mfg will provide what the client base wants.  The  product frequently represents more the level of client than mfg.  As  the client base matures so will the product.  Little bit like the chicken/egg question.  IMO

Tom Tee posted:

The mfg will provide what the client base wants.  The  product frequently represents more the level of client than mfg.  As  the client base matures so will the product.  Little bit like the chicken/egg question.  IMO

Right....................................

Another reason why chocolate and vanilla are made.

Ahh, when did we customers get to vote?

We vote everyday with our wallets.

Black paint does not conduct electricity very well, you can use a Sharpe type ink pen to darken the sidewalls.

Shinny silver tires and wheels let you know the model is new and not been run much.

I look at the wheels for wear and dirt on the used model I see at train show, they tell me more than the seller's words.

totrainyard posted:

We vote everyday with our wallets.

Black paint does not conduct electricity very well, you can use a Sharpe type ink pen to darken the sidewalls.

We aren't talking about the tire tread here. Did you ever stop to think that trains don't run on the side of their tires?  BTW, "Sharpe" type ink pens do not match the paint on the wheels.

Probably cost.  There's not a whole lot of masking needed to paint a boiler basic black but there is for wheels.  Also, the paint on the wheels could easily get chipped when putting the engine on the track and then it looks ugly and then the customer will complain. 

I've seen a few examples where the wheels have been blackened.  For tender trucks, I use Scalecoat loco black (dull) or black (shiny) and a brush to apply paint to the sides and it's quick and easy to do, and you don't get paint on the electrical conducting axle ends.  Don't have to be spray painted as very little of the surface is shown below the tender trucks.  For drivers, and lead/trailing trucks, I mask off the tires and spray paint them.

before/after:

Sam: your model makes my point - it looks great with painted tires! And it's a lotta work to do all the painting, masking spraying, ad infintem. If one is buying a painted locomotive, why can't the importer and manufacturer just extend the paint job?    !!

BTW, I visited your layout about 25 years ago, when you were assisting an elderly gentleman liquidate his O Scale GN roster. I purchased a PFM E6 4-6-0. I was particularly impressed with your ore dock!

When the wheels are painted, the tires chip from frogs and turnouts. A much better solution is to chemically blacken them. I recently purchased a MTH Niagara with PS3, the drivers and especially the tires are "chrome", and are very distracting and also unprototypical. I have the original release of the MTH Niagara and the wheels were chemically blackened and they look much better. A friend has a NKP Berkshire with PS3, the latest release and the wheels are black. The engine looks much better. For years, some importers have brought in locomotives that are painted and with very good paint jobs, but with pilot wheels that are bright/chrome. Although it is a simple matter to paint these, I always wondered why an importer would offer these when the engine was painted.

Problem with chemical blackening agents is they usually do not work well on nickel silver plating, which most wheels are.....

Blackening is a half-way step. The best method is painting, as it matches the rest of the locomotive. Just like on real locomotives!  I have never had a painted tire chip operating on rails. 

mark s posted:

Blackening is a half-way step. The best method is painting, as it matches the rest of the locomotive. Just like on real locomotives!  I have never had a painted tire chip operating on rails. 

Mark,

I must admit that pretty much everyone of my weathered steam locomotive models have not had any chipped paint on any of the tires.

On the other hand, we had nothing but trouble with those darned white tires on AFT/SP 4449, until we finally got fed-up and painted all the tires black. Sure, the black paint chips sometimes, but it doesn't show near as badly as when the white chipped/rubbed off.

White tires on a machine that basically makes nothing but dirt, throws lubrication around, etc. was probably not the best of ideas!   A remnant of the era of white side wall auto tires. An era thankfully now departed!      JMO - steam locos with white tires look awful!     

Sorry, couldn't disagree more.  If it's good enough for an NKP Berk, it's good enough.  PM 1225 is a FINE machine, but she will never be the looker that 765 is.  White tires and running boards make all the difference. 

Dieselbob posted:

Sorry, couldn't disagree more.  If it's good enough for an NKP Berk, it's good enough.  PM 1225 is a FINE machine, but she will never be the looker that 765 is.  White tires and running boards make all the difference. 

For an "excursion locomotive" maybe. However, I don't recall the NKP operating their 700s that way. All that "white stuff" is the "as delivered" look.

From the Railroad museum of PA, white paint on the tires is so the cracks are more easily seen during inspection.  I don't know if this is question for Snopes, but the guy at the museum sounded pretty convincing.

lionelbob posted:

From the Railroad museum of PA, white paint on the tires is so the cracks are more easily seen during inspection.  I don't know if this is question for Snopes, but the guy at the museum sounded pretty convincing. 

Not quite. The whitewash fluid was generally "painted" on the rods, and other running gear components, Since driver tires are installed under tension, i.e. the extremely hard steel tire is heat expanded, and then placed on the wheel center. When the tire cools, it is "heat shrunk" onto the wheel, and this under tension, which it is designed for. Just one crack in a steam locomotive tire, would generally be catastrophic, and thus it would then "come free" from the wheel. Locomotive tires were/are sort of like light bulbs; they are either good or bad. Not much in between.

White paint on driver tires was purely decorative. Surprisingly, the C&O maintained white painted driver tires and walkway edges on most, if not all, their larger steam power, whether freight or passenger.

Hot Water posted:

Dieselbob posted:

Sorry, couldn't disagree more.  If it's good enough for an NKP Berk, it's good enough.  PM 1225 is a FINE machine, but she will never be the looker that 765 is.  White tires and running boards make all the difference. 

For an "excursion locomotive" maybe. However, I don't recall the NKP operating their 700s that way. All that "white stuff" is the "as delivered" look.

The as delivered look is just fine with me.  That's just as authentic as anything the railroad may have or have not done in the following years.  I was told that depending on which shop did the work, the tires and running boards often WERE repainted.  I can't remember the details, but I think Frankfort did and maybe Conneaut didn't.  In the old pictures I have access to, many show at least the running boards painted.  The tires are much harder to tell in the grainy old photos.  However you want to look at it, 765 painted up and clean is a visual stunner, surpassed in my opinion ONLY by SP 4449 and N&W 611

When I bought my super Hudson from 3rd rail, they were kind enough to paint the drivers for a small fee. Great service.

Regarding painting drivers. If the centers are factory painted, then the sidewalls are easy to paint with a fine brush while spinning slowly on rollers. I've done it often.

Just make sure to clean the sidewalls with an appropriate solvent first.

Ron

Attitudinal revisionism!   I stand corrected, not all "white wall" treatment steam locomotives look awful!!    See Gary Schroeder's rebuilt C&O Greenbrier.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYtHCgDBzfo     Be sure to watch the end, with the locomotive in operation.     (sorry. can't seem to master postings w/o address)

NKP at Conneaut striped the running board edges (lip) and the drivers. I photographed both 755 and 759 there in July, 1958, both available light and also using flash (a bulb!) Looking at the striping under "roundhouse light" (ambient), I got the distinct impression that the drivers were striped using aluminum paint and not white paint. Some of my slides seem to show this. At that time I wondered why NKP did not follow the convention used in my 3x8 "Photopaster" card collection.....

Adding to the post by Mark S, her is C&O 614 running fast and looking good!

About 30 seconds per wheel with some flat black paint and a tiny brush and you've got black wheels. What's the big deal?

OGR Webmaster posted:

About 30 seconds per wheel with some flat black paint and a tiny brush and you've got black wheels. What's the big deal?

You'll get paint on my shiny thing,

mark s posted:

    (sorry. can't seem to master postings w/o address)

From your tool bar, select "Insert/Edit Video". Copy and paste your address and ta-da!

In reading this post, as well as, some of the comments, I made a trip to visit an old friend who did in fact run steam on the C&O. Junior told me, that it was not only a tradition of the railroad for the engine crews, as well as, the shop crews to paint the tires, and side board edges.

Junior said that as time wore on, some of the crews were given "direct orders" from management to get, and keep the painted areas finished.

He told me that he kept other areas of the locomotive that he ran painted, especially when he got to run the same locomotive for several days in a role, but toward the end of steam equipment, you got something everyday, detailing pretty much discontinued.

On the funny side, he told me, he did one side of an H-8, that he ran to Clifton Forge on a trip, and was so down in his back and legs, that he thought about laying off a trip to recoup. Said he did ask the roundhouse gang at Clifton, if the wouldn't mind doing the other side while having it down for service and boiler washing!

Said the engineers side had been fresh painted when he got called out the next afternoon, and engine had been serviced and ready to go.

I really relish the time spent with my old steam engineer friends, as both in their very late eighties, and early 90's. I know they won't be around all that much longer to tell stories about the "Real Steam Era", and how they did things back in the day! 

Tom/"Gilly" - Can't seem to find "Insert/edit video" on my tool bar. Maybe we could discuss off OGR Forum - so as to not irritate everyone !!  My email:  prgmscott@aol.com

R Nelson posted:

Problem with chemical blackening agents is they usually do not work well on nickel silver plating, which most wheels are.....

Absolutely right. I use Badger Modelflex engine black.

mark s posted:

Tom/"Gilly" - Can't seem to find "Insert/edit video" on my tool bar. Maybe we could discuss off OGR Forum - so as to not irritate everyone !!  My email:  prgmscott@aol.com

Mark you're not alone on this one, as I couldn't find anyway to do it either, so go ahead anybody that can improve our intelligence. If they get "Mad", they will get glad as well!.......................

Mark nobody will get mad on this post, it just when something is posted concerning the "Union Pacific Steam Program", that folks go into a "*issing Contest".  

Brandy, any guidance Tom/"Gilly" can provide for us knaves (and perhaps some closeted knaves !) would be monstrously appreciated !        (I'm not touching the UP Steam Program with radioactive tongs !)

Insert video is right here on the toolbar...

    Ahhhhhh, got it! Thanks, Rich. I'm in business.    Mark S

Rich - The final mystery - how to post pictures lifted from the internet?  I tried #3 and #5 after the B.  Can't get them to work; could you explain?  

Mark,
Find the picture you want to post. Right click on it. From that menu choose "Copy image address". Click on the "Insert/edit image" square. That's the one with the mountain in it. (See the picture below? Click on the box to the left of the one Rich highlighted in blue.) Paste your previously copied address into the "source" box and then click OK.

Mark, quite a video. All that nice detail is amazing. You've convinced me to stick to my feeble attempts at Diesel engine detailing, never to attempt a steam engine! 

Dan Weinhold

Sorry about being slow to reply. One other thing regarding snagging Web pics...

Select your picture. Right mouse click, select "Properties", Right mouse click (again), "Select All", Right mouse click (again-again), "Copy". OK, now you have the address.  As Jim previously noted click on the "Mountain" Insert/edit image. From there, you've got it...

Just snagged this beautiful caboose pic following the steps above....

Big Jim - I have been reduced to assuming the fetal position for the rest of my life or smashing all the furniture in my home - due to computer frustration!        

Ok, I right clicked on a selected picture on line, it does not say "copy image address"; it says only "copy", and it won't transfer the image.  What am I failing to do?

Tom - I right clicked on the photo, I get  "properties", then  I get a box with what is I guess the address of the photo and an "ok" button......no "select all". I right clicked, left clicked, clicked my heels, joined a social clique, but it didn't work.  Dear God, I am going mad !