Why so few train sets in new MTH rtr catalog?

MTH reported that they don't have transformers for the sets, hence no sets.

Stu

I'm under the impression that it is just a new marketing scheme. When I worked at a train store the RailKing SD70ACes were in such high demand that we split up sets more than we sold complete ones because people just wanted the locomotives. I didn't like doing it but people love those RailKing SD70ACes and now the ES44ACs.

Not Lionelllc, what do you mean MTH reported they don't have transformers? I assume the sources who manufacture their engines, rolling stock, buildings, and accessories also make transformers for them; or has MTH been rebranding other manufacturers' transformers to include with the rtr sets?

ogaugeguy posted:

Not Lionelllc, what do you mean MTH reported they don't have transformers? I assumed the source they use to manufacture their engines, rolling stock, buildings, and accessories also made their MTH brand transformers for them; or has MTH simply been rebranding other manufacturers' transformers to include with the rtr sets?

Why would you assume that the same factory that makes locomotives and rolling stock, also makes transformers?

NOT LionelLLC posted:

MTH reported that they don't have transformers for the sets, hence no sets.

Stu

My LHS, just about 45 minutes from MTH, confirmed this. Hopefully we'll see a better RTR catalog next year and the "a la carte" thing is only for 2016.

ogaugeguy posted:

Not Lionelllc, what do you mean MTH reported they don't have transformers? I assumed the source they use to manufacture their engines, rolling stock, buildings, and accessories also made their MTH brand transformers for them; or has MTH simply been rebranding other manufacturers' transformers to include with the rtr sets?

MTH didn't order any transformers from the factory ... hence the factory didn't make any transformers ... hence MTH doesn't have transformers.

Stu

The transformer issue was reported in the Notch 6 podcast by MTH employee. 

If the locos are so well liked, make 2 in each road name.  One goes in the sets, one for separate sale.  Both have DCS, so they can MU!

It could also be the dealers have enough sets from past years that they do not need them!

I was disappointed to see fewer train sets - an the "build your own set".  But no discount for building a set.  

Good marketing takes into consideration the supply and demand formula. When the demand is light, companies throttle back on new products and discontinue old ones. The changing demographic of those that buy the trains also factors into the equation. The hobby will continue on,  filled with fun and good folks but I predict that the next five years will bring dramatic change to the train hobby. In order to stay profitable, those that import the trains need to position themselves accordingly . Perhaps this is the manifestation of MTH's current offering.

Make your own sets from the RailKing selections.

Andrew

I heard MTH is not going to make stater sets anymore.   You will build your own set.   They are selling off what they have left over. 

Vinny26 posted:

I heard MTH is not going to make stater sets anymore.   You will build your own set.   They are selling off what they have left over. 

I did not hear that but if that is the case, they can kiss starter set sales or many sales to beginners good bye!

I work at an LHS and I didn't hear any of that

SJC posted:

Vinny26 posted:

I heard MTH is not going to make stater sets anymore.   You will build your own set.   They are selling off what they have left over. 

I did not hear that but if that is the case, they can kiss starter set sales or many sales to beginners good bye!

If what you heard it true, Vinny26, it makes one think how much the cheaper prices of Lionel's LionChief rtr starter sets caused MTH to abandon the starter set marketplace.

I believe the issue is with the bricks.  Apparently, there is a new DOE requirement to reduce quiescent draw on devices that stay plugged in all the time, hence the sleep mode on your computer. With all the devices that stay plugged in, chargers, computers, tv's, etc., DOE is looking at ways to reduce the constant draw on the grid. Once MTH tools up to build compliant bricks, starter sets should return to the catalogs.

Jon G posted:

I believe the issue is with the bricks.  Apparently, there is a new DOE requirement to reduce quiescent draw on devices that stay plugged in all the time, hence the sleep mode on your computer. With all the devices that stay plugged in, chargers, computers, tv's, etc., DOE is looking at ways to reduce the constant draw on the grid. Once MTH tools up to build compliant bricks, starter sets should return to the catalogs.

How about UNPLUGGING the bricks, or place on a power strip you can switch OFF.  If you UNPLUG, you also are protecting your set from any damage which could be in the AC lines when one is not there.

Then the LionChief/Plus system with a clicker and plug and play could be damaging sales!

I am interested in this topic but have no useful information to add.  I would like to know if this is just a temporary setback due to transformer supply issues or a move out of the starter set business in general.  I know that many folks seem to find the railking starter sets to be a good value, but wonder to what extent LionChief sets have taken the market.  

JGL

Or is it MTH is in real $$$$$ trouble?

Interesting.  And as I recall there was a similar thread several months ago that went on for pages. Paraphrasing: "Lionel to stop making starter sets with transformers."

All sorts of gnashing of teeth and end of the world commentary.  

Now this news. Maybe it's just the new normal? 

MTH starter sets, with their price premium and inclusion of PS3 perhaps are mainly  of interest to people with a relatively serious interest in entering the hobby from the getgo.  Perhaps MTH has decided that this group, which might bypass the much less expensive, less "serious" Lionel sets, will be more likely to appreciate separate item purchase from the start.  If so, I suspect they are right.  The vast majority of "train under the tree" purchasers are going to go for the better known Lionel brand that costs $100+ less.  Lionel almost totally dominates the set market from what is reported through the verbal rumor mill and what little objective data are available.  So it wouldn't surprise me if MTH is going to try another strategy for their entry market.

MTH also had a descent Steamer starter set with a much improve 2-8-0 locomotive.  The F-3 units they packed in last year looked cheap and were scaled down way too much. The SD70ACe was an awesome locomotive for a starter set.  It's too bad they aren't doing any starter sets this year they may be discouraging future train enthusiast. They may also still have a good amount of starter sets from last year.

A MTH set with the track and transformer in the past has cost about 399.00.   That was both the steam and new ES44 engines.   Lionel is selling starter sets for between 200.00 and 349.00   All new Lionel sets come with Lionchief.   MTH with an infrared controller.     Just saying!

Just agreeing!

The Union Pacific 30-4225-1, SD70ACe starter set was my first experience with MTH.  I really like that set , have ordered many additional MTH cars and will be buying the 30-1686-1 Union Pacific Big Boy Passenger set in the next day or so.  So at least for me, I would not have ventured into MTH products without that starter set.  Even picked up a used DCS system I'm starting to wire into my setup.

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or is it MTH is in real $$$$$ trouble?

uuuuuummm......no

My first MTH purchase was also a SD70Ace starter set.   Great value!  I have purchased additional MTH rolling stock.

Jim Berger posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or is it MTH is in real $$$$$ trouble?

uuuuuummm......no

As Far As I Know, MTH is privately held, and does NOT release any financial statements, so unless you have some insider info, your reply is just as speculative as Dominic's question.

Doug

The tinplate set is a carryover from 2013 that MTH still has inventory of. I'd be interested if it weren't for the colors.

Steve

Jon G posted:

I believe the issue is with the bricks.  Apparently, there is a new DOE requirement to reduce quiescent draw on devices that stay plugged in all the time, hence the sleep mode on your computer. With all the devices that stay plugged in, chargers, computers, tv's, etc., DOE is looking at ways to reduce the constant draw on the grid. Once MTH tools up to build compliant bricks, starter sets should return to the catalogs.

Exactly - we still have plenty of the ES44 Start Sets left from last season - given the low sales of starter sets, even at $100 off MSRP, we have enough to carry us through this next holiday season......

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or is it MTH is in real $$$$$ trouble?

Yep.. Friday's their last day.

IC fan posted:

Dominic Mazoch posted:

Or is it MTH is in real $$$$$ trouble?

Yep.. Friday's their last day.

Yes, there is a series of movies about the Baker's Dozen day!

Now, if Menard's comes up with a solid locomotive and transformer.....Lionel ans Mike's are going to feel some hurt.