WIU can't find TIU--Bad WIU?

Try Completely shutting down your I-Phone or Android Device.  Power OFF.  Restart it

Delete the App.  Re load the App.

Put switch in MTH Mode.

Go to your Wi Fi Settings and connect to the MTH..... Wi Fi connection and put in the password:  mthdcswifi

Open App near the wi fi box.  Select: RUN MY TRAINS

You should get a "Reading Engines" on the screen.

Select the top bar to "ADD ENGINES"  at the bottom touch Add MTH Engine.  If you have more engines on the track select "Add another Engine"

Then you should be able to select run engine.

Press Start Up

Can someone who has a working setup explain how the LED on the WIU that is labeled "TIU" behaves? 

Particukarly after the WIU has fully booted. Can you disconnect and reconnect the USB cable and see the LED turn off and turn back on?

MTHTRAINS1 posted:

Try Completely shutting down your I-Phone or Android Device.  Power OFF.  Restart it

Delete the App.  Re load the App.

Put switch in MTH Mode.

Go to your Wi Fi Settings and connect to the MTH..... Wi Fi connection and put in the password:  mthdcswifi

Open App near the wi fi box.  Select: RUN MY TRAINS

You should get a "Reading Engines" on the screen.

Select the top bar to "ADD ENGINES"  at the bottom touch Add MTH Engine.  If you have more engines on the track select "Add another Engine"

Then you should be able to select run engine.

Press Start Up

 

Deleting the App and re-installing did not change the behavior. 

My problem still seems to be that the WIU cannot see the TIU. At this point I'm suspecting the USB port on the WIU itself. 

Complete long shot....

Can you check the cable that connects the TIU to the WIU?  In your picture, it looks like the plug at the TIU may not be fully seated. I see less of the silver on mine when plugged in.... and it's oriented the right way? Bad cable?

I use power into FIXED 1, not aux power.  For testing, I would recommend you feed FIXED 1 although it may work OK with aux power only.  Looks like you use the TIU in passive mode, unless I'm missing something in the pics, can;t see if anything is connected to FIXED 1. In passive, power to tracks? Not sure if it makes a difference!

As in the docs, the TIU LIGHT should be purple when the TIU is connected to the WIU, after everything is powered up for a few seconds.

Feel free to check this off as a dumb idea, but I figure it's worth a try!

Ed

eddiem posted:

Complete long shot....

Can you check the cable that connects the TIU to the WIU?  In your picture, it looks like the plug at the TIU may not be fully seated. I see less of the silver on mine when plugged in.... and it's oriented the right way? Bad cable?

I use power into FIXED 1, not aux power.  For testing, I would recommend you feed FIXED 1 although it may work OK with aux power only.  Looks like you use the TIU in passive mode, unless I'm missing something in the pics, can;t see if anything is connected to FIXED 1. In passive, power to tracks? Not sure if it makes a difference!

As in the docs, the TIU LIGHT should be purple when the TIU is connected to the WIU, after everything is powered up for a few seconds.

Feel free to check this off as a dumb idea, but I figure it's worth a try!

Ed

 

Thanks for the suggestions Ed. 

-I have tried all the different ways of powering th TIU and nothing seems to get the TIU LED on the WIU to come on.  

Since I'm an impatient person, I think I may just open it up and make sure the USB connector seems ok. 

what cable did you use to run the upgrade?  I have read that some cables are not reliable,  possibly the upgrade had a glitch.

possibly the upgrade had a glitch.

If the upgrade process indicated that it was successful and the TIU version is 5.0, there wasn't any"glitch".

I have major problems with a Rev L and wifi.  Mine will not work reliably.  My layout uses 2 TIUs.  Rev L won't work acceptably in either TIU position, either with USB cable or serial cable..  All the others, 2 Rev Gs and 1 Rev I, all work fine in either position.    Right now, layout is running fine on 2 Rev Gs that are 15 years old.

Same results using 3 different smart phones/tablets.  Tried several USB cables and the USB>serial converter cable.

Jon, do check settings on the smart phone to make sure it hasn't jumped to another network.  Also try a USB>serial converter cable.

1drummer posted:

what cable did you use to run the upgrade?  I have read that some cables are not reliable,  possibly the upgrade had a glitch.

 

No problems doing the upgrade to 5.0. That part went smoothly. And it's that same USB cable that I am using to connect the WIU to the TIU. 

RJR posted:

...

Jon, do check settings on the smart phone to make sure it hasn't jumped to another network.  Also try a USB>serial converter cable.

Thanks for the suggestions. I did make sure that my phone was always on the same network.

at the moment I'm convinced that it's the physical connection between the WIU and the TIU that is to blame. I only have the USB cables here at the house. Tomorrow I will try the USB to Rs232 cable (but I'm not expecting anything to change since I suspect that it's the USB port on the WIU that is bad, not the TIU port). I also managed to find a vendor who has another WIU in stock. I'll pick it up tomorrow so I have a little more debug capability. 

Jon, curious for a reason I'd rather not mention.  Do you know what version software was on the Rev L when you got it?

My TIU light comes on.  Did you say you tried another USB cable?

RJR posted:

Jon, curious for a reason I'd rather not mention.  Do you know what version software was on the Rev L when you got it?

My TIU light comes on.  Did you say you tried another USB cable?

 

I bought the Rev L  2 years ago and it came with 4.2. I did the upgrade from 4.2 straight to 5.0 on Saturday.

I have a new USB cable but have't tried it just yet.  Once the little ones are in bed, then I'll have a few minutes to swap it and see if anything improves  

I was able to do a little more poking tonight. The issue which is causing my WIU to not see the TIU appears to be caused by insufficient power coming from the WIU for the communication circuits (USB to Rs232) that are inside the TIU. 

I took my WIU apart today and measured the voltage on the USB "A" port (one that looks like USB port on most computers). Typically these should provide 5V DC. I observed that mine was fluctuating between 2.7V and 4.7V. 

I am still unsure at this point if the 5V supply for this USB port is coming directly from the wall supply or if it is being regulated inside the WIU somewhere. 

But I was able to use a USB power injector cable and provide external 5V and the WIU was now showing that the TIU was connecting. This connection wasnt reliable  enough to get the app to see my engines on the track, but the app was finally able to see a TIU (no error message that it couldn't see one). hopefully tonight I can figure out where the power is getting lost. 

Have you tried another power supply, of equal voltage, for the WIU?

Just for kicks (see my post in another thread), try powering up the layout before providing power to the wifi.

When I first tested the WIU, I noticed that the USB output from the WIU would power the TIU (Ver. L) and thought that would be great and I can eliminate my dedicated AUX power supply (I only use the VAR2 to power this layout). I got a rude awakening when I tried this. The TIU would power up and I could communicate with it but odd things happened like engines missing the watchdog signal and sudden loss of communication. If ENGINEERJON is right about the USB voltage from the WIU, that would be a good explanation as to why the TIU behaved this way in my case. 

I use a single switch to power everything up on this layout (TIU, WIU, AUX power & Transformers all turn on at the same time) and haven't had any issues yet. The TIU is up an operational long before the WIU is ready to go. I found that as a best practice the TIU needs be powered on via the AUX power or FIXED 1 before the WIU to communicate properly. Powering the TIU after the WIU has had mixed results for me and while the WIU will power the TIU (Ver. L), I don't think it is enough voltage to properly run the TIU.

+1 on RJR's suggestion, try another power supply for the WIU.

Any power the TIU may get thru the USB port is only adequate (barely) for upgrading the TIU, not operating trains.  AUX or FIXED 1 must be used.

The fact that TIU may be "operational," whatever that means, does not mean tracks are powered up.

The TIU would power up and I could communicate with it but odd things happened like engines missing the watchdog signal and sudden loss of communication

This has been known for a while and is documented in The DCS Companion 3rd Edition.

Did you try the second WIU yet? 

Mr Muffin, hello.  If you're speaking to me, yes, I had 2 WIUs running tonight.  If not, beats me.

Regards to the other muffins.

A new update regarding my original issue:

My new WIU showed up today; unfortunately I only  had a few minutes to test it out. I did confirm that the new WIU does work as expected.  At this point I think I can safely say that "User Error" has been ruled out.  

Tomorrow night I hope to get more time to to start identifying exactly where the source of my original issue originated.

But at least I have a smile on my face that I can finally run trains using the app on my phone (even if it has cost me 2 WIU so far) 

I'm also having trouble talking to my TIU, but a slightly different symptom:

I attach my transformer to the TIU Fixed 1 input, the engine starts up and is idling.  (TIU is Rev L and I've updated the software to v5.0)

Next I attach the WIU to the TIU with the supplied USB b cable, position the switch to MTH mode, plug in the power supply.  

After the WIU starts up, the power and WiFI LED's are lit solid, but the TIU light is flashing and never stops.

I start up the app and make sure it is connected to the MTH network.

Try to add my engine, but every time I do, the app returns a "Request timed out" message.   

Anyone else encounter this problem?

Thanks

Have you tried attaching the wifi to the TIU before powering anything up?

Will try that tonight.

Thanks

Got my Wifi system this afternoon and took  about 15 minutes to set it up.  I already had the App upgrade loaded in my tablet so off we went. Before I started with my tablet I waited until all the lights were on correctly on the wifi unit.  Start up was great. The system recognized all the engine s on my layout, And I tried out all the features. I shut down the system I thought, to go check if Lashups were available, No mention in  Barry's Book. Guess that features is coming later. I went back to restart the system and got a "no TIU found". I shut the system down, I thought,  but the WIFI had all 3 lights on..  What I had done was hooked Wifi power to a different power strip and so the wifi had not power down. Hooked WIFI power to the same power strip as the TIU is powered from  and everything is now working.  I noticed that when you power up there is a 30 sec or so delay before all the lights on the wifi light properly. So be patient on start up.  Love the system. Can't wait for the lashup feature.

Reply to RJR:  Just tried powering the transformer, TIU and WIU simultaneously, but I got the same results.  Even tried another USB cable and again same thing.

Thanks,

Steve

Steve, do you have a serial to USB adapter cable.  I never was able to get my Rev L to work on the usb cable, and sent it back under warranty; using an old Rev G while I await its return.

No I don't have an adapter cable.  Is there a particular one I should get?  

I have used a Gigaware O8AO6 from Radio Shack and a TrendNet TU-S9 available from a number of sources.  The Trendnet is much lower price.  I was only asking so that, if you had one, you could try it.  I can't recommend spending the money just for a test.

Do you or a nearby friend have a TIU or a wifi that you could try with your wifi or TIU, respectively?

No one I've checked with has an adapter.  However, in the "Wi-Fi DCS Update from MTH " forum thread MTH has acknowledged a bug with adding engines and firmware updates will be coming to address the issue.  Not sure it will fix my particular problem though. 

I'd suggest waiting.

MTH RD:

In further response to your question, the results I'm getting are all over the lot, so I can draw no firm conclusions.  It does seem that the device cannot often not find locos on TIU#2/wifi#2, even after switching the wifis around.

I have not been able to reproduce the first alternative you describe.  The reading process is a problem, and on some occasions it finds a new loco by ID number, and then either doesn't go further or the interrogation totally fails.  At this point, while I'll report any further findings, I think I'll put off serious effort until (1) the new firmware is released and (2) I get my Rev L back from Columbia, to which I sent it because it wouldn't work with the wifi.