wobbly cars (upate 12/12)

find a fibre washer

that's flexible, cut a slot

in it and fish it under

the under body of your

cars, between the body

and the truck to take

up the slack space.

The truck should still ride

free and you haven't compromised the integrety

or the value of your cars.

The non-simple fix is to remove the trucks and push up the center of the bolster indentation on the frame.  My 2600 flat car and gondola don't wobble but most of the other cars do wobble. I mostly run the 2800 series cars. A few of them wobbled but I fixed them by pushing up the center of the bolster. MTH should not have let some of this stuff out the factory. But the new and shiny reproductions sure look nice. Anything is fixable, but all these tinplate cars should have been built with better quality control. I had to make a fixture to slightly push up the center on the frame holes.

Keeping in mind that I only entered the tin-plate universe less that 2 months ago, one thing I'm starting to learn is that I'm going to have to start learning that KNOWING what things like '2800 series',  '2600 series', '600 cars', 263E, etc. mean or refer to is very important in discussions.

The 2 worst wobbling cars are the tanker and the hopper that came with my 'O' gauge tin-plate Christmas Freight set that just came out 2 or 3 months ago.  If I recall correctly the body of each sits on a flat 'bed' and, I'll have to confirm this statement when I get home, and the bed does NOT rock, just the body.  I think.

But I do not think that the Blue Comet cars are built that way.

Bob: I already looked and do not see any screw that could be undone to remove the truck.  it looks more like a rivet.  Not saying it is a rivet, just that it looks more like a rivet than a screw (well, it's not a screw, I know that).  So how is removal accomplished???

Popi: I'll certainly keep your suggestion in mind.  Darn, I wish I had a computer at home right now so I could look at things to remind me of the construction.

thanks - walt

Several years ago I purchased a standard gauge Blue Comet box car that had very noticeable wobble.  What I found is that the axles were slightly off center of where they connected into the wheels.  I ended up contacting MTH and they sent me four new axle/wheel sets and this solved the problem.  The way I found out the problem was to remove an axle/wheel set and then roll it on the track.  The problem was very easy to see. Not sure if this is your problem or not.

Michael

Walt,

   Popi gave you the fix for most of the problem in his prior post, I also use some old stainless washers to take up the space, keeping the rolling stock stiffer as it rolls down the track. My original mini 2660 Crane Cars will probably need the additional SS washer inserted in the near future, course I have always liked to run medium slow any way.  Mike is also right, MTH did have a small problem on their STD gauge Tin and they replace the parts when required. 

PCRR/Dave 

Walt,

I always thought that a little wobble was a part of the fun and personality of tin.

Norm

Walt,

I agree with Norm. My LCT 700 series passenger cars wobble and it doesn't bother me. Never even thought about fixing them and probably never will unless it gets so bad that it causes a derailment.

I like to keep it simple.

KISS

(keep it simple stupid)

Norm: I agree that the wobble does add to the tin-plate 'feel', but I don't like the speeds that I have to restrict running to in order to feel safe that they are going to stay upright.  Maybe it's an unwarranted fear on my part - maybe if I ran them faster a few times, and if they stay on the track, I'll get over that uneasiness.

I last night confirmed that even the flat bed that the body sits on rocks.  The whole thing does, not just the body like I said yesterday.

I thought out popi's solution last night.  I studied the connection points and, wow, it would have to be one THIN washer!!!

Here are 2 images.

* One shows that the body sits on a flat bed.  The Blue Comet cars do NOT.  The only Blue Comet car that wobbles, and it's a rather slight one at that, is the baggage car.

* The other tries to show how the truck 'connector' goes thru the flat bed and is held in place by one of those 'C' type washers (sorry, can't think of what they are called at the moment).

- walt

Are the tops of the truck bolsters and the bottoms of the cars where the bolsters rest flat?

I ask because I just finished working on replacing some bad trucks on a set of passenger cars. On a number of the cars, the frames were not flat where they rested on the trucks, and had to be straightened for the cars to sit correctly

Agree with some of the others above.

Virtually all my LCT rolling stock (600 and 700 series passenger cars and a few of the freight items) wobbles. Not to the point of derailment, but it’s definitely noticeable.

I think it just adds to the great clackety-clack of tinplate.

C.W.: I don't (truth be told) quite understand what you are asking me.  As I have admitted here many times I don't know squat about real trains, so the term 'bolster' is not one that I know.  I'm guessing it means the 'frame', so to speak, that the wheels/axles sit in??

I do think I know what you mean though, but I'm guessing.  I have 2 complete trucks left over from my 'O' days, RK trucks, and the 'top' of the frame is flat.  Is that what you mean?

If so, how can I tell - it's hard seeing underneath.

thanks C.W. (sorry I'm not more train savvy!)

- walt

Yes, I was asking about the truck's frame, and the spot on the car where the frame contacts it.
You probably could not tell without removing the truck.

How are the trucks held in place?

Are they riveted, screwed, or c-clips / horsehoe washers on studs?

My comments are only intended to be very general, I am not familiar with these cars at all.

I just took a look at the set we have here at the store and I think the best way to fix the problem would be a thin washer on ONE end of the car between the truck and the platform.  Alternately, a thin notched piece of metal or plastic could be inserted around the shaft and held in place with a dab of Walther's "Goo".

Yes I did say one end only.  If you do both ends the car will not be able to react to uneven trackwork etc.

The trucks are held on with "C" clips and can be removed with a screwdriver by prying / pushing at the middle of the "C".  It's a little harder to put them back, I'd use a pair of needle-nose pliers and some patience.

quote:

The trucks are held on with "C" clips and can be removed with a screwdriver by prying / pushing at the middle of the "C".  It's a little harder to put them back, I'd use a pair of needle-nose pliers and some patience.

At one point during the postwar era, Lionel had an issue with too much play in some of the trucks. They put washers just under the "C" clips to take out the slack.

I would not be surprised to learn that a standard hardware store washer was too thick. If that is the case, I'd probably try some 671-23 motor washers. I keep a bunch of them on-hand. They come in handy for all sorts of things.

Did anyone notice that the two-piece tinplate wheels (backs and fronts pressed around the back piece) are far from perfect.

Sometimes the back piece is not tightly press-fit into the front piece where it wraps around, causing some wobble and irregularities.

Also, not all the holes are drilled perfectly on center.

You may be fighting a losing battle at the truck securing point if the wheels are flawed.

Sometimes moving wheel sets or wheels to different axles can help.

As a perfectionist, I found easier to train myself (pun intended) to live with it, rather than try to fix an imperfect toy made from somewhat primitive construction methods.

It is, after all, part of the charm!

Like I said yesterday, the washer would have to be super thin.  C.W. interesting perspective relating it to PW problems with the C-clips.

On day 1 of owning my first tin-plate stuff, I did notice that the axles on various trucks on various cars fit differently from truck to truck, and even axle to axle on the same truck, and that surprised the heck out of me.

See my followup comment next.

- walt

I got BRAVE last night thanks to several of the positive and encouraging (to me) comments about accepting the wobble for what it is, that being part of the attraction of tin-plate.

I was limiting my Christmas set to 30 SMPH but I got brave and bumped it to 40.

I was limiting my Baby Blue Comet to 35 SMPH but I got brave and bumped it to 45.

I ran each for about 20 minutes and there was no issue with a derailment caused by a wobble, absolutely none.  The wobble was still there and to my surprise was really no worse than when I ran them slower.

So THANKS for those comments to got me to run them faster.  BTW: on my layout, those top speeds of 40 and 45 are about fast enough.

If anyone is wondering why 40 and 45 and not both the same: my Blue Comet runs a consistent 5 SMPH slower than my Christmas set.  When I run them on parallel loops, the Christmas engine at 30 runs exactly the same speed as the Blue Comet at 35.  Same at 40 and 45.

Again, thanks for making those positive 'wobble' comments!!!!

- walt

Walt,

   I forgot your rolling stock is new, you will not need the SS washers for about 25 years or so, I keep forgetting that some people are just getting into Tin Plate trains, when I was a boy this is what we started out with, lots of my Tin plate is much older than I am, and needed the thin SS washers because the wobble was pretty exaggerated.  Glad everthing worked out like you wanted.

PCRR/Dave

Walt,

You also want to make sure you oil both sides of each wheel.

A drop on the inside and on the outside, so that both friction points of each wheel have lube.

Work the oil in by spinning the wheel and allowing it to slide / slop back and forth on the axle a bit.

Also make sure the roller pickups are oiled at their friction points.

Ives1122: thanks for the heads up.  Luckily I looked at the lube directions, something that I didn't need to look at in my pre-tin-plate days.  The directions did mention oiling both sides of the wheels, the rollers, etc.

- walt

I GOT BRAVER!!!!!

I upped the speed last night figuring I'll push things and if something derails I'll just put it back on the track (things on my layout are not always easy to reach) and know that the selected speed was too fast.

I now max speed the Christmas Engine at 60 and the Blue Comet at 65.

A nice positive which I did NOT expect: the wobbling is no worse at the higher speeds.  In fact, I'm not so sure it's not less wobble!

Again, thanks for the encouraging replies.  I'm still not 100% comfortable with my expectations of tin-plate so replies which I can learn from are much appreciated.

- walt