Wonderful - but is it getting to be price prohibitive? $174 plus change !

I just saw that today also.  Looks great, but I am not going to buy one.  It may very well be worth it, but is more than I am able to justify for a building, no matter how detailed and well built it is.

It crossed my threshold of pain. I could build one like that if I wanted for much less. I know many do not have the time to build.....but they must have much more cash.....I'll wait for the next Menard's that fits my layout and era. 

Agreed. But what a fun project it would be if sold 'knocked down' as a kit which might sell for a third of that. Just the less costly packaging and fewer square inches alone would save considerably.

I agree. Menards is spoiling us..

Alentown posted:

Agreed. But what a fun project it would be if sold 'knocked down' as a kit which might sell for a third of that. Just the less costly packaging and fewer square inches alone would save considerably.

Sell it unassembled  unpainted in a plain brown corrugated box direct only for $70 and I'm in. 

cabinet Bob posted:

I agree. Menards is spoiling us..

My thoughts also!

Nice building. The $175 price tag is consistent with the Morrison Door Factory ($170) and the feed building appears pretty complex in its design. That said, though, as nice as the building is I don't think I'd be able to use one as my layout plans center around more urban/suburban switching rather than rural.

Haha, Michael.   With my rudimentary understanding of Latin root words, it took me a few seconds to figure out the iron horse thing. LMAO for a bit.  I had just seen this one too, and agree with you guys.  $174 makes this one a no go - not that I have any room for it on the layouts.

Also, I was thinking of starting a new thread about the Menard's buildings.  The Feed Mill indicates it's Just Plug ready.  I love the Menard's buildings, but those adapters are big, clumsy, and you gotta plug 'em in somewhere.  I'm wondering how much more trouble and expense it would require to make future Menard's LED stuff that I can just wire to my accessories bus bar.  Hopefully, Mark reads this one and will comment, even though I'm pretty sure this idea has been brought up before.

Jerry

JerryG posted:

Haha, Michael.   With my rudimentary understanding of Latin root words, it took me a few seconds to figure out the iron horse thing. LMAO for a bit.  I had just seen this one too, and agree with you guys.  $174 makes this one a no go - not that I have any room for it on the layouts.

Also, I was thinking of starting a new thread about the Menard's buildings.  The Feed Mill indicates it's Just Plug ready.  I love the Menard's buildings, but those adapters are big, clumsy, and you gotta plug 'em in somewhere.  I'm wondering how much more trouble and expense it would require to make future Menard's LED stuff that I can just wire to my accessories bus bar.  Hopefully, Mark reads this one and will comment, even though I'm pretty sure this idea has been brought up before.

Jerry

I only have one Menard's building - the Power Plant. But I have some Lemax and scratchbuilts that I light with LED's purchased from my LHS.

Mark Boyce posted:

I just saw that today also.  Looks great, but I am not going to buy one.  It may very well be worth it, but is more than I am able to justify for a building, no matter how detailed and well built it is.

I agree the price is quite high. Would love to get a building like that if the price were about one third of it's price.

Also that is why I won't buy the big & newer transformers; Too high priced!!

Lee Fritz

AGHRMatt posted:

Nice building. The $175 price tag is consistent with the Morrison Door Factory ($170) and the feed building appears pretty complex in its design. That said, though, as nice as the building is I don't think I'd be able to use one as my layout plans center around more urban/suburban switching rather than rural.

I have both of those WS buildings....nice items!! But the street price on them are around $100 plus shipping......if someone (retailer) sets a price around $100 I'd consider it.....but I bet it will not go that low.......Trainworld is $174 plus shipping.....new building...new price structure. 

Menard's HAS a "feed mill", and there are at least two other kits plus the Menard's l have already bashed into elevators, which fate awaits this when l fish one out of a junk box or otherwise acquire one in the future.  With all these feed mills available, you'd think somebody would just offer elevators, and save me all that work?

Menards is spoiling us..

You guys are way past spoiled,

Take look at what good kits cost to build such a structure - BTS, Banta, Model Tech, Laser Tech, or even go look at some Stoney Creek kits.....

Even if this were offered at 1/2 this price (good luck with that...), you've got to invest a lot of hours to get it done.  That's good fun for me so I don't charge me for my time - if I were to assemble it for you buying it built up from Menards would be a lot cheaper.

The Woodland Scenics building is very nice and may be worth the price. Ever price out a custom built of the same size? 

I have about 11 WS buildings and am very happy with every one. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

Also just bought the Menards passenger station, a great looking station IMO. 

david1 posted:

The Woodland Scenics building is very nice and may be worth the price. Ever price out a custom built of the same size? 

I have about 11 WS buildings and am very happy with every one. Sometimes you do get what you pay for.

 

I have the Morrison Doors factory but did not pay near retail for it.... Yes, they are nicely done. No dispute there.

colorado hirailer posted:

Menard's HAS a "feed mill", and there are at least two other kits plus the Menard's l have already bashed into elevators, which fate awaits this when l fish one out of a junk box or otherwise acquire one in the future.  With all these feed mills available, you'd think somebody would just offer elevators, and save me all that work?

Didn't Korber???

You can take photos or find old photos of nearby Feed Mills or Grain Mills. Take measurements. Buy Plastic sheets or Wood sheets that are the same texture as the structure. Cut and assemble it. Add plastic window frames, doors, and window panes. Add dust cyclones and pipes. Remember to install the lights before all the construction is complete.

Andrew

falconservice posted:

You can take photos or find old photos of nearby Feed Mills or Grain Mills. Take measurements. Buy Plastic sheets or Wood sheets that are the same texture as the structure. Cut and assemble it. Add plastic window frames, doors, and window panes. Add dust cyclones and pipes. Remember to install the lights before all the construction is complete.

Andrew

Anyone can build their own buildings if the WANT to. 

I always meant to buy the Weaver Row house kits.....but they seemed to be out of stock every time I looked at the site.  Then I see Lionel got the tooling for the Weaver Row house.....but between selling as assembled only, higher price and NOV 2017 delivery I figured I'd better start building them myself.  I have 7 under construction right now. I am using Matt board covered with Clever Models printed siding and Tichy windows. The 7 I am working on cost me right at $60 for materials.......or less than one Lionel Row house next NOV. 

It boils down to time, pocketbook and desire. 

My problem with building these and grain elevators from scratch is the lack of a variety of dust cyclones.  If you explore the prototypes, you will find a wild and wonderful variety of shapes and sizes. I have bashed some out of plastic funnels but parts makers l have spoken to at shows have produced none 

colorado hirailer posted:

My problem with building these and grain elevators from scratch is the lack of a variety of dust cyclones.  If you explore the prototypes, you will find a wild and wonderful variety of shapes and sizes. I have bashed some out of plastic funnels but parts makers l have spoken to at shows have produced none 

Maybe turn some in wood and after finishing them cast them. Might sell enough to cover your cost. I did that in the model car hobby for a race car body I wanted. 

AMCDave posted:

colorado hirailer posted:

My problem with building these and grain elevators from scratch is the lack of a variety of dust cyclones.  If you explore the prototypes, you will find a wild and wonderful variety of shapes and sizes. I have bashed some out of plastic funnels but parts makers l have spoken to at shows have produced none 

Maybe turn some in wood and after finishing them cast them. Might sell enough to cover your cost. I did that in the model car hobby for a race car body I wanted. 

I actually did just that for a friend that was producing a kit - he needed enough for a run of 50 kits.  1 master made, sealed, 1 mold poured, and a week later of resin casting - job complete and delivered.

Of course to cover a shipment of RTV and a shipment of resin puts those parts at ~$1.65 ea.

BTW, pretty sure that Model Tech does sell some dust cyclones.

AMCDave posted:

falconservice posted:

You can take photos or find old photos of nearby Feed Mills or Grain Mills. Take measurements. Buy Plastic sheets or Wood sheets that are the same texture as the structure. Cut and assemble it. Add plastic window frames, doors, and window panes. Add dust cyclones and pipes. Remember to install the lights before all the construction is complete.

Andrew

Anyone can build their own buildings if the WANT to. 

I always meant to buy the Weaver Row house kits.....but they seemed to be out of stock every time I looked at the site.  Then I see Lionel got the tooling for the Weaver Row house.....but between selling as assembled only, higher price and NOV 2017 delivery I figured I'd better start building them myself.  I have 7 under construction right now. I am using Matt board covered with Clever Models printed siding and Tichy windows. The 7 I am working on cost me right at $60 for materials.......or less than one Lionel Row house next NOV. 

It boils down to time, pocketbook and desire. 

And SKILL - don't sell yourself short. When people ask me how many of my buildings are scratch built I cover my mouth, mumble, and answer - "mpphmpp"!!!!

 

And SKILL - don't sell yourself short. When people ask me how many of my buildings are scratch built I cover my mouth, mumble, and answer - "mpphmpp"!!!!

Agreed....some basic skills are needed. When I can I will post my how to on my row house. If you can use a ruler and X-acto I think anyone can do as I do. 

Having seen this building in person I can say it is amazing. $175 is the full retail price so hopefully we will see some discounting. 

  What would be wonderful would at least be knowing who made it.

Hmmmmmm.  There's no iron horse reference I can see either.

(Wow autospell added all the Ms, only two or three are mine, lol.)

  Was the relevant info all hastefully edited away in one quick sweep to get rid of what was likely a good joke?

I didn't say acceptable, I said good

Nice model with good detail but for $174 I can purchase a new table saw.  I do not believe that selling this building as a kit would lower the price very much. It is Made in China and the labor rate over there is extremely low like $2/ hour. So deduct two hours of labor off and you have a $4-$5 savings on a kit. This structure may be expensive but offers a solution for the affluent operator that wants a plug n play piece.    

BTW, pretty sure that Model Tech does sell some dust cyclones.

and so does Lionel parts, and Walthers [If you need a smaller size!] and rusty stumps is working on one as well!

http://www.railroad-line.com/f...c.asp?TOPIC_ID=47220

AMCDave posted:

Anyone can build their own buildings if the WANT to.
I always meant to buy the Weaver Row house kits.....but they seemed to be out of stock every time I looked at the site. 
Then I see Lionel got the tooling for the Weaver Row house.....but between selling as assembled only,
higher price and NOV 2017 delivery I figured I'd better start building them myself.  I have 7 under construction right now.
 I am using Matt board covered with Clever Models printed siding and Tichy windows.
The 7 I am working on cost me right at $60 for materials.......or less than one Lionel Row house next NOV.

Funny just two weeks ago I purchased a Weaver row House off Day Bay for $30.00 shipped. [Seller listed it as HO but I don't remember Weaver models ever selling prebuilt structures in HO.]

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Nice model with good detail but for $174 I can purchase a new table saw.  I do not believe that selling this building as a kit would lower the price very much. It is Made in China and the labor rate over there is extremely low like $2/ hour. So deduct two hours of labor off and you have a $4-$5 savings on a kit. This structure may be expensive but offers a solution for the affluent operator that wants a plug n play piece.    

From what I can see, Woodland Scenics structure kits retail for about 40% less than built-ups.  And all of their buildings are offered both ways. 

Of course, by the time you figure in your paints, glue and labor...

Rusty

I saw the actual model at Trainfest In Milwaukee. The size and detail is worth the price.  Here are some pictures I took. 

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Nice model with good detail but for $174 I can purchase a new table saw.  I do not believe that selling this building as a kit would lower the price very much. It is Made in China and the labor rate over there is extremely low like $2/ hour. So deduct two hours of labor off and you have a $4-$5 savings on a kit. This structure may be expensive but offers a solution for the affluent operator that wants a plug n play piece.    

I would challenge anyone to build and paint this model in two hours. Keywords, paint and weather. Likely it will come with more detail not pictured. Unless you work for 25 cents an hour, 175 bucks is a steal.

Pete

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Nice model with good detail but for $174 I can purchase a new table saw.  I do not believe that selling this building as a kit would lower the price very much. It is Made in China and the labor rate over there is extremely low like $2/ hour. So deduct two hours of labor off and you have a $4-$5 savings on a kit. This structure may be expensive but offers a solution for the affluent operator that wants a plug n play piece.    

You are correct to a point.  Low labor rates in China make the difference between assembled and unassembled very close. But your calculations are off a bit.

1. In 1986 when we were having die cast 1/24 scale NASCAR race cars manufactured in China we asked our manufacture to quote us a price for kits of our die cast rather than the assembled versions. The quote was $8 vs assembled at $10.  The manufacture said making kits would 'upset' his production facility so he'd rather not do it.....thus the high cost. 

2. I think one hour labor is low. Both assembled and unassembled have the same labor cost from mold ejection until parts are delivered. Then we are talking placing parts in a box vs parts clean up, painting, assembly and careful packing in a box that will permit shipping. There will be QC rejects due to messy paint or assembly.  I no longer am personally involved in the cost end of China manufacturing. But I work for a company that manufactures in China.....labor cost were $2 hour in the 1980's but have gone up 4 fold since.  So I think a unassembled version could be viable today IF the manufacture could be talked into it.....with new labor rates it might be easier today if it means the manufacture saves more. I can see labor of 5 minutes for kit vs close to two hours assembled plus paint and supplies. 

Just IMHO  only!!  

AMCDave posted:

Dennis LaGrua posted:

Nice model with good detail but for $174 I can purchase a new table saw.  I do not believe that selling this building as a kit would lower the price very much. It is Made in China and the labor rate over there is extremely low like $2/ hour. So deduct two hours of labor off and you have a $4-$5 savings on a kit. This structure may be expensive but offers a solution for the affluent operator that wants a plug n play piece.    

2. I think one hour labor is low. Both assembled and unassembled have the same labor cost from mold ejection until parts are delivered. Then we are talking placing parts in a box vs parts clean up, painting, assembly and careful packing in a box that will permit shipping. 

I can see labor of 5 minutes for kit vs close to two hours assembled plus paint and supplies. 

  

Used to take me a lot more than 5 minutes to set up and sort out all the parts, package everything, put it into the box that took time to fold up from a flat, print out the instructions and add them into the box, cross check that it was complete, add a packing material, close it up and put a label on the box.  I didn't even include the time it takes to actually generate the actual parts.....  

I can barely assemble the simplest kit I ever produced in under 3 hours and even then the glue won't have totally set; paint and finish takes a little longer, particularly if you want the paint to dry.

Adriatic posted:

  What would be wonderful would at least be knowing who made it.

Hmmmmmm.  There's no iron horse reference I can see either.

(Wow autospell added all the Ms, only two or three are mine, lol.)

  Was the relevant info all hastefully edited away in one quick sweep to get rid of what was likely a good joke?

I didn't say acceptable, I said good

Adriatic,

If you look at Michael's postings, you will notice he is a self described "Ferroequinologist."  Ferrus, in Latin, means iron (thats why it's listed on the periodic table as FE) and equine refers to horses.  Ology is the study of something.  You gotta love the stuff these guys come up with.  Anyway, I got a good laugh out of his creativity and it's another reason this forum is so cool.

Jerry

A fellow "active ferroequinologist"

The "title" Ferroequinologst goes back at least as far as the 1960's.  At least that's when I first learned of it.  Probably goes back even further.

Rusty

Looking at Jim's pictures, I think the building is fairly priced.  Very much so, actually.

I have four or five Woodland Scenics buildings,  very much like all of them, and paid 10-25% off MSRP, IIRC.  Can't complain one iota.

Nope too much for me. I can find other things to buy.

Compared to a $400. engine sitting neglected in a closet, it's a good deal.

That IS good. I've noticed it there, but never "noticed it". I'm glad I spouted about this "pig and pony show" now Thank you both for the grin.

I think what happens is that when one reaches one's seventh or eight decade, sometimes sooner, one still remembers the cost of things when one was young.  So $174 seems like a lot.  But given the labor that goes into design and manufacture, the lack of economies of scale (due to small numbers and, in particular, the need for manual assembly) this is what it is. 

If you have time, but not much money, building yourself makes sense.  If you have little or no time, or no patience,  and have some discretionary income, this is a reasonable alternative, it seems to me. 

People pay $100 a month for their cellphone plan, which many consider essential and others not so much.  Just as a frame of reference.  Then again, a terrific refrigerator is only $800-$1000 and lasts 10-20 years, and you use it every day .