Woodland Scenics Ballast

I haven’t purchased ballast in a long time. I used only Woodland Scenics for the majority of the layout. It only came in Fine, Medium and Coarse. The coarse was for O scale. On 2 rail O scale remember even though the rails are the same distance apart as 3 rail track.  The ties are smaller and the rails lower. The coarse is probably to scale it’s just the size of 3 rail track that makes it look on the smaller side.

Like I said this bag is ooold, doesn't say course, medium or fine but on the back is a table that gives a scale size for N, HO and O being the 1-1/2" to 2".

  2” does seem small for mainline ballast. I guess if your modeling HO it would scale out to 4”’. Seems like it would work there or possibly S. If you want to use it say on Gargraves or Atlas. You could use it as fill then go coarser above it.

A search engine found this from a 1946 RR journal:

The ballast generally considered best for high-speed mainline traffic is crushed stone, which should be as nearly
uniform as possible, and of a maximum size of 2 in. It should also have sufficient hardness to resist pulverizing
under tamping and traffic, and be of such quality as to withstand the elements. In the application of stone ballast
to track that has been previously ballasted with other material, the track should be stripped and given a lift
sufficient to insure uniform distribution of the load on the subgrade. This should be done in two operations.
During the first raise the track should be brought to proper grade and then shovel tamped. After a suitable
interval, during which time the track should be allowed to settle under traffic, the track should again be lifted to
proper grade and machine tamped. After another interval the track should be gone over by a small surfacing
force to correct any slight irregularities in line or surface.

"The ballast generally considered best for high-speed mainline traffic is crushed stone, which should be as nearly uniform as possible, and of a maximum size of 2 in."

So there you have it, my bag of ballast, which is marked medium, would be correct for O scale ballast even though it appears too small to me.  I guess I've become accustomed to seeing larger material used as ballast on layouts.

Hi Joe,  Obviously there are many choices for ballast. I have used two different types. Many years ago I had a customer that was a cinder block mix plant. Their material is identified in the attached pictures with the little color variance and a little large stone. I obtained several bags for nothing and had to sift out both the larger and smaller materials in order to get something  that look acceptable. If you have such a plant in your area, you could go that route. Since then I have been using Brennan's ballast. They supply it in black and grey. I have attached several pictures of the gray material. It sells for approximately $15 for 5 pounds. I have a couple of hundred pounds on my layout so far. I hope this helps in your quest to pick a product you like.  Regards, Bill Park

@coach joe posted:

Anyone else think scale1-1/2" -2"gravel is too small for ballast?

I don't.  In fact, most of the model railroad ballast I see would be really big in full scale.

However, in model railroading, some things look better if they are slightly undersized or oversized.

I have Brennan's ballast on the main tracks, with a mix of Brennan's and Woodland Scenic fine black cinder ballast on auxiliary tracks, following Santa Fe prototype, and it looks good.

Thanks for the reply Bill.  A lot of support for Dennis' ballast here on the forum.  At this time I don't believe I will be ballasting my upcoming layout, but one never knows.  I started this post only because I am going through all the boxes marked, miscellaneous, scenery, materials and  train stuff and came across the bag in question.  The bag felt as if it was breaking down so I transferred it into a zipper bag and as I copied the info from the original bag onto the new bag it occurred to me that it appeared small compared to what I've seen used.

When looking at my 3 rail track with it's ongoing contradiction of the disproportionate sizing of the double tall rail which has half again the presence with a third rail which  is held in place with invisible spikes on ties over twice the size of normal; ballast sizing is not high on my check list.  I have a large amount of scale ballast but doubt I will ever use it.

One of the things that makes model railroading enjoyable for me is to not get caught up in the minutia. 

Working on three rail layouts has exposed me to folks who genuinely enjoy the  trains, blemishes and all. 

Having spent decades in a rather demanding fussy world of self important clients I find 3 rail model railroading refreshing.

My two rail pike is more demanding and more accurate but my recent 3 rail additions are like coming home from a busy day to watch a tank of tropical fish, soothing. 

0 scale and O gauge, the best of both worlds.

"I don't.  In fact, most of the model railroad ballast I see would be really big in full scale.

However, in model railroading, some things look better if they are slightly undersized or oversized." Tom that's exactly what I was thinking.

Tom Tee, staring at the properly sized scale ballast in a bag I never even thought about our over-sized rails.  Of course the ballast we use would have to bigger than properly scaled ballast.  Forgive me if this next question is a bit naïve but are the ties and rail on your two rail layout actually scale size?  If so then the ballast would need to be properly scaled.

Joe,

If I stop the trains and turn on the bright spot lights and concentrate on the track I would notice that my two rail has scale and non scale ties.  My most visible two rail is Micro Eng which is the closest to  absolute scale.  There is some new Atlas which is the next best scale in size, then there is some Old Pullman with oversize ties in hidden areas plus a lot of early Atlas also with oversize ties.

My three rail is primarily GG with all Ross turnouts and some Atlas flex on a wide radius curve.

All that is just to answer  your questions.  I obviously am not that concerned about ties or ballast, nor do I have bright lights and the door visitors come in swings both ways.

My point of concern is nice flowing trackage with spiral easements, wide radius curves and cosmetic curves with a lot of grade changes and distinct destinations.

Early on, b/4 the three rail addition.

It's all good, no one way to enjoy this hobby.

On the ballast, I am of a mind to use a finer ballast with over sized ties.  We are accustomed to seeing a certain stone count between the ties.  Large stones with large ties emphasize the non scale appearance, if that means anything to some folks...

You can get some real money tied up in commercial hobby ballast.

@Dennis Rempel posted:

You can get some real money tied up in commercial hobby ballast.

Yes. Especially since I like the look of their HO ballast.

Dick

Thank you to all posters !!!

Great information !!!!

@coach joe posted:

I've had a bag of Woodlands Scenics Ballast for a very long time.  The table on the back of the bag says it scales out to 1-1/2" to 2" size.  To me it seems very small but maybe I'm just used to to larger scale sized "rocks" like our coal loads.  Anyone else think scale1-1/2" -2"gravel is too small for ballast?

no not at all have been around may a yard branch and main lines  across the country in sizes from 1 to 2 " on main line ,down to sand and gravel  , any thing bigger than that would  defeat the proto typical purpose  of what the ballast does.  Ift it looks to small, well maybe your tack system is too over sized!

Gentlemen, for your information, I went down to the BNSF main here in KC and picked up a representative sample of ballast. I filled up three 5 gal. buckets, brought them home and separated  them by size. What I found is that the size ranges from 1/2" at the smallest to 6" at the largest with the majority of the pieces in the 3,4,5," size. My ballast exactly duplicates that size range and relative distribution.

Brennan’s Better Ballast does the job for us. We had a good supply until two months ago. Since then, we have used over two boxes and brought another down from the second floor storage area today.

This is part of the area still needing ballast.

Dennis it will soon be time for another order. Thanks for a great product!

I used Brennan’s Ballast like Bill Webb,here are some pics of my Lionel tubular rail with Brennan’s Ballast.